If I've understood correctly, you're suggesting to have the footnote
marker on one page, and the actual footnote on the facing page?! If that
is necessary (and I understand why you might think so), I think it
indicates that the book is poorly thought out. Such long footnotes
should be either turned into endnotes, or even into appendices.
Still, no harm in having the additional option, I suppose.
Wait for the big overhaul of the footnote feature in a forthcoming
InDesign release! (I've heard it's planned for version 18).
Well Ariel, I have always thoroughly disliked endnotes in any book I have read.
The thinking out of a book is either to the author or to the publisher; I can just give advice, but in the end I can't ignore the hand that feeds me.
I also thoroughly dislike white at the bottom of the page if it can be prevented. One line, okay; two lines, mwah; more hurts. (Publishers tend to agree with this...) Especially when left and right pages get unbalanced.
Sometimes I long back to good old Ventura, which, with all its flaws, was a really book-oriented program (freedom with footnotes, multiple indexes). I hope InDesign 7 will bring this!
I will use VP whenever possible. So I feel for ya.
These days VP is relegated to publications I need to update and have never been moved into ID. Most of the world has moved on once Corel killed one of the best applications for books and manuals.
Ah, the days.
Oh, I also dislike endnotes -- especially when they're very short
(ibid., p. 2) and could have been put into the text itself.
However, what you're describing is very long footnotes, and in such a
case I prefer endnotes (or an appendix), since it is text that I will be
spending several minutes reading, from the sound of it. Pages with 2
lines of main text and the rest of the page taken over by a footnote is
offputting, to my eyes.
At any rate, I cannot recall ever seeing a book with the footnotes
indicator on on page, and the actual footnote on another page!
I agree footnotes of 30-40 lines are not a good idea, but footnotes of about 8 lines are quite common in the kind of books I mentioned. Do you think it is acceptable that a paragraph breaks to another page with 8 white lines below it? Okay, 8 white lines after a paragraph, because you have problems fitting in a figure or a table, that sometimes can't be prevented. What would you prefer as a reader, occasionally having to go to the next page to read the footnote, or having to look for the end of the chapter every time?
By the way, Word has no problems with putting the indicator on one page and the text on the next. I'm not considering making up my books with Word (or going back to Ventura), but it proves that it is possible. I'm pretty certain that in Indesign this is not intended as a new standard, but is simply a bug or an unfinished item.
And, certainly from the pre-dtp-age (that's where I come from), I remember several books with indicator on one page and text on the next. Took a lot of puzzling and headache, back than.
An 8 line footnote will not normally take 8 lines of text: usually, the
type size is smaller and so is the leading in footnotes.
Personally, I don't mind a gap of up to 4 text lines or so if necessary
to keep the footnote indicator and the start of the footnote on the same
page (obviously, once the footnote starts on the page, it can flow on to
the next page; and this InDesign can cope with!). Although I would never
have such a gap in the middle of paragraph normally, in this case,
because there is also a footnote at the bottom of the page, it does not
stand out so much to my eye.
I didn't know that Word allows what you say. I'm surprised that it does.
This is what the Chicago Manual of Style (15th ed.) has to say about
your problem: "In a work containing many long footnotes, it may be
difficult to fit them onto the pages they pertain to, especially in an
illustrated work. A basic requirement for all footnotes is that they at
least begin on the page on which they are referenced. Several long
footnotes with their references falling close together toward the end of
a page present a major problem in page makeup. There is also the matter
of appearance; a page consisting almost exclusively of footnotes is
daunting. For some remedies, see 16.36–40."
And the first remedy (16.36): "Avoiding overlong footnotes: Lengthy,
discursive notes should be reduced or integrated into the text..."
Obviously, nobody can force you to take this advice. But you're asking
the InDesign team to spend days and or months of programming to
accommodate your editor or publisher's bad practice in allowing such
long footnotes in the first place, despite what I think is a consensus
that apart from the "daunting look," this will also cause "a major
problem in page makeup." And your solution is to have the footnote begin
on a different page from its text indicator, whereas Chicago says "A
basic requirement for all footnotes is that they at least begin on the
page on which they are referenced." Many readers would, I think, agree
with that assertion!
Anyway, the more flexibility the better, as far as I'm concerned. But I
seems to me that it's wrong to expect the InDesign team to offer a
solution to a problem that is caused by bad editorial practice. Fix the
editors, not the programmers!
Fix the editors, not the programmers!
Right on! Footnotes are by definition ancillary material, and should not get in the reader's way. A good editor will insist really long footnotes go elsewhere (endnotes, appendix, a separate publication?), while three notes in one line or sentence are apt to look silly (or worse, like cut-and-paste "writing"). Unfortunately, good editors are getting harder to find — I've known journal editors to excuse ungrammatical sentences with the standard "the author's views are their own" clause.