21 Replies Latest reply on Feb 26, 2013 7:41 AM by the_wine_snob

    New to rendering in DVD format.

    beemerchef

      OK, been doing Photography, and Videos for You Tube for Years now. No problem.

       

      I use PE9.

       

      I decided to make a Documentary and burn it on a DVD [to also later have a Co. make copies / have not started yet]

       

      The camera is a SonyHXR NX 30.

       

      This is what I understand so far, please correct me if I am wrong or have the solutions.

       

       

      I need to "shoot" DVD format size which is 720x480 Correct ?

       

      However, which format? HD MPEG4/AVC/H.264 AVCHD (version 2.0 compatible)
      OR                                   STD MPE-G2 PS [I think this is the one]

       

      The first problem is the camera's smallest format is SD:720x576 (9Mbps 16:9)

       

      Will this be the setting I need to use?

       

      The Audio will not be a problem as DVD makers need PCM/WAV which the camera has a setting for.

       

      Now, edited as I get my files from the laptop [not the camera], time to render. [share]

       

      I have choices seems like.

       

      One, being, burn a DVD BUT, the preset does not give me the choice in the Audio as PCM, only Dolby and that is not going to work for DVD's.
      Is there a way to change that preset? to PCM?

       

      My other choice then is

      Two, "Computer" MPEG to play back on a Computer or Burn a DVD.
      If so, should I pick HD720 25? It again does not say PCM for the Audio.

      Just checked advanced settings. AUDIO can be MPEG, would that be the same as PCM?

       

      Well, I hope all this makes sense and I would so much appreciate if someone would have the answers.

       

      Thank You.

        • 1. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          OK, there are some corrections to the above.

           

          For DV material, in PAL (determined by where one lives, and the settings on their camera, the Frame Size will be 720 x 576. The difference between Standard 4:3 and Widescreen 16:9, will be determined by the settings on the camera, when the material was recorded, and will be a difference between the PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio). The Frame Size will be the same.

           

          For DVD-Video, there is ONLY one Encoding, that is allowed - MPEG-2 DVD.

           

          The Primary Audio Stream can be either PCM/WAV, or DD AC3. On a DVD-Video, one can also have supplemental Audio Streams, say DD 5.1 SS, DTS, etc., but ONLY as supplemental Audio Streams. PrE does not do DD 5.1 SS, or DTS Encoding, and also lacks the authoring capabilities to add Supplemental Audio to the DVD-Video.

           

          In PAL-land, MPEG Audio is also allowed for the Primary Audio Stream, but is not being used much anymore, and has fallen into disfavor, as there are several potential problems with that Audio Encoding. I would advise NOT using it, and do not know if PrE even offers that as an Audio option.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            As long as you shoot with a camcorder, it doesn't matter if you shoot in standard definition or high-definition. You can get a DVD either way.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 4. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
              beemerchef Level 1

              Oh! Thank You. Yes, we are in the USA so that would be PAL. We have been camping full time my dog and I [moto/sidecar] for over 6 years and now I decided to make a long video!

              So, all looks well except the audio.

               

              The Co. that makes the DVD's only accept PCM. But I will call them, they must accept also DOLBY. PE will allow to do MPEG but since you say it is not good, I will not use it.

              Since DVD's are 720 x576, I am truly wondering what the hype is then on 1980x ... . What for?!

               

              My Go-Pros also shoot in 720 x ... so I will be OK there.

               

              I will check for the sound, will post back and now I have to figure out how long can a Movie be on an 8GB DVD. I know it has to do with bitrate but I have no clue what that is.

               

              Bill, Steve, Thank You for the support and the answers. Will know more after another phone call.

               

              Steve, just saw your post in the e mails. Seems as I have much reading to do! Thank You.

               

              Stay well, Ara and Spirit

               

              http://beemerchef.smugmug.com/photos/i-xJ8nHFc/0/S/i-xJ8nHFc-S.jpg

              Us, on a cold day!

              • 5. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Yes, we are in the USA so that would be PAL.

                Actually, that would be NTSC, and not PAL. If your camera is producing 720 x 576, then it must either be a PAL model, or set to PAL. NTSC will always be 720 x 480, and for Standard 4:3 the PAR will be 0.9, and for Widescreen 16:9, PAR will be 1.2. The PAR's are slightly different for PAL footage.

                 

                In NTSC-land (the US, for instance), MPEG Audio is not an option.

                 

                If you are going to a replication house, and they require PCM/WAV (really as good as it gets), then you might have to use another authoring application, like Sony's DVD Architect, to specify that Encoding. It appears that PrE ONLY offers DD AC3 (one of the two NTSC Audio standards), for the DVD. [I just found that out, because of your thread. I use Adobe Encore for my authoring, and it allows me to specify the Audio Encoding.]

                 

                As for 1920 x 1080, that will be HD (High Def) material, which CAN be down-rezzed to SD (Standard Def), or used to burn a BD (Blu-ray Disc), which WILL be HD.

                 

                Still curious about the 720 x 576 material. I do not know GoPro cameras, so it might just be a setting between PAL & NTSC.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                1 person found this helpful
                • 6. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                  beemerchef Level 1

                  Hi Bill.

                   

                  OK, yes, USA is NTSC and when switched to that it will drop the frame to 720x480. Good on that.

                   

                  PE in Audio however is only giving me [in advanced settings again] only Dolby or MPEG. No PCM anywhere or WAV for that matter as I understand it interchangeable. I will found out tomorrow from the replication house what they have to say about that. I only spoke to a regular employee, he said if I had more questions to call back and talk to an engineer. Very nice people, good service over the phone.


                  As far as mixing with Go Pro cameras [which I have 2, one facing backwards and one frontward with my Buddy in the middle it can take in 720p (1280x720) in 16:9@ 30fps. That is the smallest frame or WVGA (848x480) which it says is a Wide Angle "Standard Definition". That one is 60fps. 720p might be better.

                  Here is a sample of only one Go Pro taken a while ago [1 minute clip]

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGm6gjPnGW4&list=UUySSKja7aCMk2783AbhqjzA&index=53

                   

                  So I don't know about the Go Pro. I can ask tomorrow also but if I am going to mix it will just have to see how it turns out. Might do a short sample and send it to them. I have time.

                   

                  DVD render A.jpg

                  NTSC DVD Widescreen is MPEG2 DVD. That would be the final setting. [if the audio is acceptable]

                   

                  Will get back when I get that info.

                   

                  I appreciate your help. Seems all so complicated suddenly!

                   

                  Stay well. Ara and Spirit

                  • 7. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    Now it appears that Mr. Spirit IS a happy guy. Thanks for sharing.

                     

                    When starting with HD (High Def), but going ultimately to SD (Standard Def) for a DVD-Video, one workflow would be to set up an HD Project to match that GoPro footage, and Import and edit that. When done, just Export/Share/Publish to a DV-AVI, which will then be Imported into a SD DV Project for authoring (Menus and navigation added at that point), and either Burn to Disc (DVD-Video), or Burn to Folder (VIDEO_TS folder with the IFO, BUP and VOB files inside). You can always Open that original HD Project, and author a BD (Blu-ray Disc) from that, so nothing lost. Also, from that HD Project, you can Export/Share/Publish to HD for use on YouTube, Vimeo, etc. The only downside is that it will take a little longer to output that DV-AVI for use in the SD DVD-Video Project.

                     

                    As for the Audio, I do not think (unless it has been added) that PrE will let you do PCM/WAV. For that, you will probably want to explore Sony's DVD Architect. We are fortunate to have Steve Grisetti, our tireless MOD here, who has "written the book" on DVD Architect. There is also a forum on Muvipix.com (co-founded by Steve G.), that covers DVD Architect, and were I looking into that program, it would be the first place that I would go. There will be a lot of great reading there, with many questions already answered. Also, the folk at Muvipix.com are very friendly, helpful, and ready to answer any questions about using that program. It offers many more features, when authoring, than does PrE, whick is fairly limited and very linear, in what it can do.

                     

                    PCM/WAV is the better format for Audio, as it is uncompressed, unlike DD (Dolby Digital) AC3 (a flavor of MPEG, but a special one), which IS compressed. I assume that Adobe decided on the AC3 only Audio, as it is compressed, so takes up less room on a DVD-Video, allowing for more, or higher Bit-Rate Video. Adobe's full-featured authoring app., Encore, can do either, but it's only available as part of Premiere Pro.

                     

                    I use AC3, because it allows me to do DD 5.1 SS (Surround Sound), when authoring in Encore. However, if ultimate Audio fidelity is needed, then I include a PCM/WAV Stereo version, as a supplemental Audio Stream (something that PrE cannot do).

                     

                    When you speak with the replication house, be sure to get the full specs. on what they require, and how they need for you to provide that. Once, a replication house needed a DLT tape, with all authoring done. Now, many will take a "master DVD-Video disc," and work from that. That makes replication easier on the person supplying the master, as they no longer need a DLT tape machine (fairly expensive). Each replication house might have their own specs., and you want to provide the material exactly as they require.

                     

                    Good luck, and happy editing,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 8. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                      beemerchef Level 1

                      Good Morning Bill. I was just going to post an update when your reply came in.

                      First of all, my own innatention, PE9 does render in PCM. Just found it this morning.

                      I just finished an hour conversation with a Gentleman at Discmakers called "David Galagher" and I must say these people know how to communicate and bend backwards. In this day and age when most are staying disconnected from each other, it has been refreshing, same as here.

                      Being on the road full time, 99% of the time in our tent, using Public Libraries for Internet or Cafes, I will probably go the route of letting "them" do the Authoring. Of course it is an extra added cost and what I have learned so far, and will learn more, will never be a waste because in the meantime I will also probably make some much shorter videos for sale on the Road for fuel money or to actually even fund this project. Too many people want to take Spirit's Photo, they can also buy a short DVD then and a Postcard! No more freebie!

                      So basically I can continue shooting at high resolution, once all edited, burn in such format even on multiple DVD's if needed and they will do all the conversion. They can utilize any specs which gives me much leeway.

                      This is a bit like one having their own production studio and I must say gives me much comfort.

                      I will learn DVD Architect also, this will be the next step.

                      Stay well, "Thank You" again, you are a huge source of good information.
                      Ara and Spirit

                      • 9. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                        Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                        You'll find my free 3 part Basic Training tutorials for DVD Architec here.

                        http://muvipix.com/products.php?searchphrase=dvd+architect&btn.x=0&btn.y=0

                        • 10. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Ara,

                           

                          Thank you for reporting on the inclusion of the PCM/WAV Audio, and glad that you found that setting.

                           

                          I am also glad that Diskmakers is so easy to work with. Nice to find suppliers, who are helpful and ready to work with the client. It was not always the way with replication houses, but that seems to be changing, as more "casual users" avail themselves of their services.

                           

                          Good luck and safe motoring,

                           

                          Hunt

                           

                          PS - going back some years, there was a Harley-rider in Colorado Springs, who had a rig on the back, for his Bulldog. I had seen their photographs in some magazine, and then one day, got to meet them both in the Springs. The Bulldog (probably long gone by now), rode with goggles and leathers, looking over his "master's" shoulders. They were a sight to behold out on I-25. I cannot imagine getting any of my Bulldogs to wear goggles, as they even resist wearing their coats on cold days. Maybe it's just MY Bulldogs? I looked for one of those older pics, but never found one via Google. Several other Bulldogs on motorcycles, but not that one.

                          • 11. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                            beemerchef Level 1

                            If you are reading this Bill, since Spirit riding has hit the [somehow] Social Media and Sidecar Forums and others, many Dogs are now riding like him. It really is kind of cool for Dog lovers to take them along!

                             

                            Well, to get back to the above, I feel as I have been going about it all the wrong way, placing the wagon ahead of the horses!

                             

                            The camera is here and the results even for a You Tube video are a disaster and finding my little S-95 Canon much superior! Of course it is me, not the camera.

                             

                            I am shooting in FX 1080/60 i which is a high resolution, not even worried about DVD's right now as I can do a conversion later, same with the audio.

                             

                            I think my settings in PE9 are wrong to begin with and keeping them the same as the S-95 getting horrible results starting with a black line/space on each side [???]. At 16:9 I did not think I would have that as I don't with the S-95.

                             

                            My initial setting on PE9 when rendering is AVCHD full HD 1080i 30. I think right there is a mistake probably since shooting at 60 but setting at 30? Is that what it means? Maybe I should pick Lite 720 60 to match or change the camera setting to 1080 30 FX.

                             

                            Then on after editing, the sharing setting is going to :Computer , MPEG, NTSC DVD Widescree. That is MPEG2 with 29.97fps.

                             

                            The results is pretty bad! Woondering if the 30fps original setting, shooting at 60, but rendering also at 60 has anything to do with all this.

                             

                            I know the answer is starring at me but feeling at such a loss right now. Photography is so much easier. Not giving up though.

                             

                            If anyone has a good flow of shooting and rendering parametered/properties, could you please post them including why am I getting these black spaces on each side. Basically a formula between the camera settings and PE9.

                             

                            Thanks, so much appreciative.

                             

                            Ara & Spirit [who has nothing to do with this!]

                            • 12. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              First, let's address the black bars. When one drags a Clip onto the Timeline (properties for Timeline are set with the choices in New Project), with Scale to Frame Size OFF *, and there are black bars, then there is a mis-match between the Clips, and the Project's settings. It could be the Frame Size, or perhaps a mis-match between the PAR's (Pixel Aspect Ratio) of the Clips, and the Project. In PrE 11, it has become easier, as the Project can be automatically and dynamically adjusted to match the Source Footage - just drag the first Clip to the Timeline, and it will adjust to accommodate it. With earlier versions, it's best to jot down the Frame Size, FPS and any PAR, should that not be 1.0, or Square Pixels, which all HD material, with the exception of 1440 x 1080 Anamorphic. Then, at New Project, choose the Preset that matches that Source Material, as close, as is possible, with 100% being ideal.

                               

                              Steve Grisetti has a Basic Training Series, and Part 1 covers the Project Setup. I am linking to his Basic Training CLASSIC Series, as his new one is for PrE 11, and there have been some changes - one mentioned above: http://www.muvipix.com/products.php?subcat_id=44

                               

                              Hope that helps, and gets you started on the right foot.

                               

                              Hunt

                               

                              PS - Glad that there is following for Spirit, and other pups on motorbikes. I tend to look for English Bulldogs doing almost anything.

                              • 13. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                beemerchef Level 1

                                They "will" do anything! As I will do anything for them, and all Dogs!

                                 

                                OK, will start from square one. Very frsutrated right now. I looked at my S-95, it shoots in 1280x720HD... so simple. Yet I know, blown up the quality is just not really there.

                                 

                                Thanks again, going to the Tutorial now.

                                 

                                Stay well. Ara and Spirit

                                • 14. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                  beemerchef Level 1

                                  Well, at least I know where my ignorance lies after watching the videos.

                                   

                                  1) I have not been able to find "Scale to frame" ON or Off. Obviously I need ON so the black bars do not appear.

                                  UPDATE: I found "frame to scale", it has been checked and still getting the black bars.

                                   

                                  2) My non understanding are the initial settings and last [sharing] setting.

                                   

                                  This is what I shoot on [Sony camcorder / using memory card]

                                   

                                  HD MPEG4-AVC/H.264 AVCHD [format] and

                                  FX (HD) 1920x1080/60i (24Mbps/16:9)

                                   

                                  PE Settings A.jpg

                                   

                                  Steve Grisetti's Videos are truly incredible, yet, nowhere does it say what my settings [or any for that matter] should be.
                                  I have no clue shooting as above which settings I should use?

                                   

                                  PE Settings C.jpg

                                  The seond hicup is once edited again, which setting should it be rendered with?

                                   

                                  PE Settings D.jpg

                                   

                                  So I feel real close and yet where would anyone learns this unless asking as such?

                                  I will be all set once I have answers regarding the above.
                                  Hope I am not being a non sense... I can help you with Cooking questions if you have any.

                                  Stay well. Ara and Spirit

                                  • 15. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                    Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                    If you are truly looking for a resource that will answer all of these questions and more, you should check out my books.

                                     

                                    Here's one for version 10.

                                    http://Muvipix.com/pe10.php

                                     

                                    And here's one for version 11.

                                    http://Muvipix.com/pe11.php

                                     

                                    As you can see, we publish both a color book for Premiere Elements and a black & white book for both Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements together -- and we've been doing this since version 7.

                                    • 16. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                      beemerchef Level 1

                                      Hi Steve... I was just going to write you. Your ears must have been burning!

                                       

                                      OK, what you are doing is just an incredible array and source of knowledge. I will order your Book for sure when I can afford it soon as since my last post I have upgraded from PE9 to PE11 and watched all your free videos. [you have discount for Seniors? ].

                                       

                                      PE11 is I find so much more advanced! One of the aspect that I like of course to begin with is I don't have to pick my initial settings as you mention in your wonderful video.


                                      Yet, before I switched to PE11 I had already found through trials and errors and much other reading the answers to my above questions. They were very simple answers really, I am sure you know them as much as everyone else here.

                                       

                                      As far as the black bars, there are no black bars. It was my own error and lack of knowledge having not enlarged the screen.

                                      Just for your info I will post here the answers of my above questions.

                                       

                                      I am shooting in HD MPEG4 1920x1080/60i (24Mbps) 16:9

                                      in PE9 my settings where Full HD1080i 30 [in PE11 it is automated, as far as I can tell]

                                      and for rendering I pick MPEG2 1920x1080i 30

                                       

                                      I am getting a very sharp image on my laptop.

                                      The day I do a DVD I will convert it through PE11 to burn in.

                                       

                                      I am sure you knew the answers, it was pressing that I found them myself. I did through PE11, your free videos and yes, soon I will order the Book [hardcopy].

                                       

                                      Thank you always for the help.
                                      Ara and Spirit

                                      • 17. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                        beemerchef Level 1

                                        Come to think of it Steve Grisetti, are you affiliated with Adobe?
                                        Wondering.

                                        Thanks. Stay well. Ara and Spirit

                                        • 18. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                                          Not even remotely. Sorry. I'm just a freelance writer and co-founder of Premiere Elements support site http://Muvipix.com.

                                          • 19. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            The very few, around here, who ARE affiliated with Adobe will have a "Staff" badge in their Profiles.

                                             

                                            Good luck,

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 20. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                              beemerchef Level 1

                                              OK, Thank You.

                                              Always hoping to find answers on a Forum instead of buying a Book [very tight budget], a Book which might not even have the "technical" answers of the questions above.
                                              Stay well... on we go!

                                              Ara and Spirit

                                              • 21. Re: New to rendering in DVD format.
                                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                Ara,

                                                 

                                                Of the various books that I have seen, I can give a positive recommendation for Steve Grisetti's Muvipix Guide to PrE 11.

                                                 

                                                I think that you will find that many, if not most, of the technical aspects of the program in the Appendix. The body of the book covers the program, and its operation in great detail. If I were to buy only one, that would be the one.

                                                 

                                                Good luck,

                                                 

                                                Hunt