8 Replies Latest reply: Feb 23, 2013 6:35 PM by hal_b RSS

    Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?

    Brighton Lance Community Member

      I have a paragraph style that is used for pull quotes. I can apply hanging punctuation (having the quote marks outside the line of the test of the pull quote) by manually using the Type > Story panel but as I have a lot of these pull quotes to go through, I'm hoping I can build the hanging punctuation into the para style.

       

      But I can't seem to see how to do that. I can see there is a checkbox 'Ignore optical margin' but I can't seem to get the para style to take on the hanging punctation in the first place.

       

      I expect it's a simple solution - any help much appreciated!

        • 1. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
          [Jongware] MVP

          It's called "Ignore", rather than "apply" because Optimal Margin Alignment can only be switched on for an entire story. The per-style option can then switch it *off* again. (*)

           

          You enable story-wide Optical Margin Alignment in the Story panel ... it's usually the *only* thing that one's good for too.

           

          (*) Confusing, eh? Right you are. Where is that thread again, about getting "the LITTLE things that Annoy You" fixed?

          • 2. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
            Brighton Lance Community Member

            Ah, I think I've got it. It can't be done then. It's not possible to apply to a para as otherwise it could nip and out between paras but it has to be across a whole story. It kinda makes sense, but would be nice if you could override it - as you say, little things...

            • 3. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
              BobLevine UGM-MVPs

              You could put the pull quotes into anchored text frames with object styles assigned to them. Might make it easy to manage them, that way.

               

              Bob

              • 4. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
                Tom Usrey Community Member

                This is a bit off topic, but I've often wished the Optical Margin Alignment setting were a paragraph setting, not a story (or frame) setting. Anybody else want to comment?

                • 5. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
                  Brighton Lance Community Member

                  Yes, seems bit out of step as it is, like from a different app or something. But it is a nice feature.

                  • 6. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
                    hal_b

                    I'll chime in in case anybody questions whether anyone cares about this or not: this (optical margins / hanging punctuation / protrusion) was one of the distinguishing and highly valuable features of InDesign that brought me into the Adobe world (and TeX first) along with the other microtypography features. Please don't murder me if I have conflated these terms. I'm a software guy; I don't have a typeography or printing or design or fine arts background, but I'm trying to learn.

                     

                    I think this comes from Hermann Zapf and URW. I'm not sure I understand why bullets are handled as they are. It's fun to watch the paragraph composer rework text as the optical margin setting is toggled. Many people seem to have asked for Optical Margins to be a paragraph setting. I had assumed everything else would be as advanced as the fine-grained controls over character and paragraph styling. Silly me. e.g. no zoom-to-fit-text width in ID, having to set guides to align objects to each other in Illustrator, etc.

                     

                    Here's an (mostly unfavorable re. Adobe's implementation) older thread: http://typophile.com/node/48738. Wikipedia has some articles with some limited info and references under [microtypography,  optical margin alignment, Hz-program, hanging punctuation.] I used to have a bunch of bookmarks when I was doing research into page layout and desktop publishing software.

                     

                    Hal Brown (CS6, Mountain Lion, MacBook Pro w/ Retina)

                    • 7. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
                      [Jongware] MVP

                      Hal, that Typophile thread is 5 years old -- and the first comment is *mine*!

                       

                      Re-reading it, I find I still stand by what I said then. CS6 (version 8 of InDesign) offers no improvements on optical alignment. As Abobe says, "uh, yeah, but now you can tag text for HTML export! Ain't that something!"

                      • 8. Re: Can you build optical margin alignment into a para style?
                        hal_b Community Member

                        [Jongware], uh, yeah, I meant 'older' in human years, not software or internet years, which would make your first comment downright ancient, huh? I was actually re-reading that thread backwards, and didn't get your first comment. However, I think that might have been where I learned about kerning with hair spaces some time ago; if so, thank you very much. And to think that I was hoping Indesign 8 (CS6) might incorporate actual database connectivity (not Data Merge or XML import.) Remember back when it seemed like software functionality and usability seemed to get *better* over time? And development tools like Borland used to make (see what I did there?) offered the promise of faster, easier, better, more powerful development? And companies actually fixed bugs and improved their existing software rather than just stuffing on new poorly-thought-out-and implemented buzzword functionality to make sales points? I'm still <unprintable> at Microsoft for burying Visio under the ribbon interface that just made it that much harder to use without changing a thing under the hood, and then jacking the price way up to milk money from a product they essentially bought and killed. Who would make a feature that rhymes with "fooey" anyway (parenthetically that would be the Fluent User Interface or Ribbon from Microsoft Office.) Nuts, I'm ranting again again. Thanks for the reply.