19 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2013 6:37 PM by Lawrence_Cramer RSS

    Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema

    le_mac_man Community Member

      Dear Trusted Forum Users,

       

      I am about to undertake an E-commerce website using Dreamweaver for the first time and I need good sound advice and help from anyone willing to give it and who has previous experience of creating an Ecommerce from scratch for a small / medium sized company.

       

       

      I have 2 areas that are causing me headaches already which I hope you can advise me on:

       

      1. The client wishes to update the articles etc. themselves, and I would like to know if the Cartweaver software add-on for Dreamweaver would enable them to do this if I was to create their shopping cart using it? I have read over the info on the website for Cartweaver and it seems quite good, but without a real working site to look at in front of me, I don't know how easy it is for a client to login to the site and edit things (text, photos, codes etc.) Anyone using Cartweaver in this way please let me know.

      2. The client will want to update info as required on other pages, mainly text and maybe few images. What would be the best way to set things up so that the client can easily update info on pages by themselves? Is creating Template dreamweaver pages with editable regions for them to edit feasible? or do I need to go the whole CMS route with something like Drupal to achieve this feature??

       

       

       

      Any and all advice, help and opinions will be greatly appreciated!

       

      Thanking you in advance.

        • 1. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
          Nancy O. CommunityMVP

          You're undertaking a mighty big first project in DW.  I hope your coding skills are excellent.

           

          You might want to look at Web Assist's Power CMS Builder - an extension for DW.

          http://www.webassist.com/dreamweaver-extensions/powercms-builder/

           

           

           

          Nancy O.

          • 2. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
            le_mac_man Community Member

            Thanks Nancy.

             

            It is not my very first project in DW, I have done many sites already, but this will be my first "E-commerce" project where the client will update and maintain parts of the site themselves. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

             

            So you wouldn't recommend Cartweaver? or Drupal as an alternative?

             

            Also. I just don't understand HOW the client will make changes to text on their end without using DW? How do they do it??

            • 3. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
              Nancy O. CommunityMVP

              Content Management System (CMS) sites can be edited from any web device with an internet connection.  No special software is required by the client.  They go to their site & log-in to CMS's admin panel or dashboard to add/edit/delete pages.

               

              A CMS site does not necessarily have E-commerce.  Simiarly, an E-commerce site doesn't  necessarily have full CMS.  Cartweaver is for E-commerce only.  It is not a full CMS.

               

              You could use an Open Source CMS and add an E-commerce plugins:

              • WordPress,
              • Joomla!,
              • Drupal,
              • Concrete-5

               

              Another option is Adobe's Business Catalyst which bundles hosting, CMS and E-commerce into one package.  This might be the simplest option for you.

              http://www.businesscatalyst.com/

               

               

              Nancy O.

              • 4. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                Lawrence_Cramer CommunityMVP

                I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you may have!  Just let me know...

                 

                lawrence   at   cartweaver   dot   com

                 

                --
                Lawrence Cramer - *Adobe Community Professional*
                http://www.Cartweaver.com
                PHP & ColdFusion Shopping Cart for Adobe Dreamweaver

                Stay updated:
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                • 5. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                  Lawrence_Cramer CommunityMVP

                  Here's a little more information that you may find helpful...

                  What we normally tell people is, "you don't have to know how to code to work with Cartweaver, but you should be willing to learn some new things along the way".  If you are well familiar with Dreamweaver and with HTML, and you're not afraid to dive in and learn some new things you should do just fine. If you are new to dynamic, database driven sites you you'll need to decide to go with either ColdFusion or PHP. ColdFusion, being a tag based language similar to HTML will be immediately more familiar than a script based language like PHP and therefore presents an easier initial learning curve but either version will serve you well. Regardless of which version you choose, Cartweaver makes the development and implementation of a shopping cart and admin about as easy as it can be, and a standard implementation can be performed with virtually no coding at all.

                   

                  But be aware, there is a learning curve involved. You will need to set up a development environment and create a data source connection. This isn't a Cartweaver specific requirement, it will be necessary for whatever dynamic application you wish to work with. If this fact doesn't intimidate you, then I'd say you'll do very well with Cartweaver.

                   

                  Ecommerce capabilities are becoming more in demand all the time, Cartweaver will give you the ability to offer this to your customers or clients in a very short period of time.  Dive in, have fun.

                   

                  Here are a few resources you may want to check out.

                   

                  http://tinyurl.com/877vfsz  -  training on ecommerce and Cartweaver

                  http://tinyurl.com/8a3oku7 - training on ColdFusion

                  http://tinyurl.com/4lp7u8d -  training for PHP

                   

                   

                  note: Lynda.com is a paid subscription site, but if you are not a member  you can sign up for a seven day free trial which will give you plenty of time to go through this course - here is the URL for the trial sign up page:

                   

                  http://tinyurl.com/7dqryy7

                   

                  There are also many good tutorials to be found on the Adobe Developer's Network

                   

                  http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/application_development.html

                   

                  Hope you find these helpful.

                   

                  --
                  Lawrence Cramer - *Adobe Community Professional*
                  http://www.Cartweaver.com
                  PHP & ColdFusion Shopping Cart for Adobe Dreamweaver

                  Stay updated:
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                  http://www.twitter.com/cartweaver
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                  • 6. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                    le_mac_man Community Member

                    Thank you again for taking the time to share your very useful advice Nancy.

                     

                    I looked into Adobe's Business Catalyst and user reviews are not good at all and with a monthly fee is a little expensive.

                     

                    I am probably going to sound silly, BUT, how does a normal website become a CMS site?? what in the Dreamweaver / coding side of things turns it into a CMS site? Is it when I create editable regions within the pages that they become editable for the client?

                     

                    They need to just download any free CMS program and they can edit their website?

                     

                    I am aware that Cartweaver is for E-commerce and not a full cms tool. But I prefer to code my own sites ans not use template based solutions like wordpress.

                    • 7. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                      Nancy O. CommunityMVP

                      You will need to use server-side code inside your HTML markup.  Which one depends on which CMS you choose and which programming languages & databases are supported by your remote server.

                       

                      Cushy CMS  (watch the video to see how it works).

                      No PHP or databases required.

                      http://www.cushycms.com

                       

                      Perch ($59 license per site)

                      PHP & MySql required

                      http://grabaperch.com/

                       

                      WebAssist Power CMS (Commcercial Extension for DW)

                      http://www.webassist.com/dreamweaver-extensions/powercms-builder/

                       

                      Get Simple CMS - (free)

                      PHP, no database required.

                      http://get-simple.info/

                       

                      e107 CMS - (free)

                      PHP & MySql required

                      http://e107.org/

                       

                       

                      Nancy O.

                      • 8. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                        le_mac_man Community Member

                        If one uses CMS like drupal and joomla etc... do you have to build your whole website using this software, or can you create a website and ONLY use these CMS programs for the clients to update their pages?

                        • 9. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                          bemdesign Community Member

                          It depends...

                           

                          Think of the CMS as an "engine" for the site. Some are quite large engines and require a lot of design and development within the structure of the CMS (SharePoint comes to mind). Others are quite light engines and you design and develop your site like a normal site but use special code to identify to the CMS which areas should be editable by an authorized user.

                           

                          As you get to know your CMS "engine" better, you can become more flexible in how your site looks and functions, within the constraints of your CMS. Every CMS has it's pros and cons and only you and your needs can determine which one is right for you.

                          • 10. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                            Nancy O. CommunityMVP

                            IMO, if you go with something as powerful as Drupal or Joomla! you should use it to build the entire site.  Using it for anything less would be a waste of your developing time and server resources.  Also, you would need to train your client how to use them.  The learning curve is steeper with these products.

                             

                            As mentioned in my last reply, there are smaller CMS systems you could use (Cushy, Perch or Web Assist's Power CMS builder) that allow you to add CMS editing capability to specific pages in your current site.  Less development time on your part but also less control by the client. 

                             

                            Decide what you need then choose the product that best fits those needs.

                             

                             

                            Nancy O.

                            • 11. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                              le_mac_man Community Member

                              Hi Lawrence,

                               

                              Thank you for your email address. I sent you an email on the 2nd March and have not received a reply yet.

                               

                              Just wondering if you have had time to look into my questions as it is very urgent.

                               

                               

                              Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

                              • 12. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                osgood_ CommunityMVP

                                le_mac_man wrote:

                                 

                                Hi Lawrence,

                                 

                                Thank you for your email address. I sent you an email on the 2nd March and have not received a reply yet.

                                 

                                Just wondering if you have had time to look into my questions as it is very urgent.

                                 

                                 

                                Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

                                Ding, if its any advice this is a big big step up for someone who is asking the question what is a CMS and how does it work, really....it's a massive learning curve. Think carefully before diving in because you could be biting off more than you can chew.

                                 

                                I've tried just about every cms out there, Wordpress, Drupal, Concrete5, Perch, SimpleCMS to name but  a few and they are all a complete nightmare to be honest. None do exactly what you want, others like Wordpress, Drupal are bloated and the client wont be able to use them without many phone calls to you.

                                 

                                Recently I've taken to writting my own with the insert, update and delete behaviours which are part of Dreamweaver. But getting all of the pages editable without the client being able to screw things up isn't possible. I now limit areas/pages so the client can update them and the rest they have to come back to me.

                                 

                                I have reasonable knowledge of how it works but reading what you are asking would even be a big step for me. As for the ecommere part what payment gateway are you intending to use, because depending on which you choose even those will be a nightmare to get working. Paypal is the easiest but if you go down the merchant account road you'll run into more integration problems.

                                • 13. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                  Lawrence_Cramer CommunityMVP

                                  Sorry, but I don't remember getting your e-mail!  Spam filter may have grabbed it.

                                   

                                  Could you please send it again an I'll keep an eye out for it!

                                   

                                  --
                                  Lawrence Cramer - *Adobe Community Professional*
                                  http://www.Cartweaver.com
                                  PHP & ColdFusion Shopping Cart for Adobe Dreamweaver

                                  Stay updated:
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                                  • 14. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                    le_mac_man Community Member

                                    Thank you Lawrence, I resent it to your address yesterday again, the email is entitled, "Follow up to Adobe Forums Question".

                                     

                                    Thank you for your time and help.

                                    • 15. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                      le_mac_man Community Member

                                      osgood_ wrote:


                                      Think carefully before diving in because you could be biting off more than you can chew.

                                       

                                      Well, that's how we learn isn't it? We have to dive in sometimes.

                                       

                                       

                                      osgood_ wrote:

                                       

                                      I've tried just about every cms out there, Wordpress, Drupal, Concrete5, Perch, SimpleCMS to name but a few and they are all a complete nightmare to be honest. None do exactly what you want, others like Wordpress, Drupal are bloated and the client wont be able to use them without many phone calls to you.

                                      Ok, so how does everyone else do it????? There HAS to be a relatively easy way of having the customer edit certain areas of their pages without huge headaches.

                                       

                                       

                                      osgood_ wrote:

                                       

                                      Recently I've taken to writting my own with the insert, update and delete behaviours which are part of Dreamweaver. But getting all of the pages editable without the client being able to screw things up isn't possible. I now limit areas/pages so the client can update them and the rest they have to come back to me.

                                      Well, I don't think that clients should be able to update every page on their website, maybe just one or two where simple text and maybe a photo are allowed to be changed. Is this done in Dreamweaver by creating an editable region on a page? Then how does the client access this and update the area on the page with their computer???

                                       


                                      osgood_ wrote:

                                       

                                      I have reasonable knowledge of how it works but reading what you are asking would even be a big step for me. As for the ecommere part what payment gateway are you intending to use, because depending on which you choose even those will be a nightmare to get working. Paypal is the easiest but if you go down the merchant account road you'll run into more integration problems.

                                      If there's a will there's a way Again, if it's a nightmare to get working then a solution must be found, there are millions of sites selling on line with a merchant account, so it has to be achievable somehow. I'm not looking for easy, I'm looking to give my clients what they want, because if I don't give it to them, they will go to someone who will.... and if that's the case, how come the "someone else" will be able to do it without any problems?

                                       

                                      From what I already know, Cartweaver is built to work with most if not all payment gateways, so if it is paypal or a merchant account, cartweaver should handle it without problems.

                                       

                                      Thanks for your comments in any case.

                                      • 16. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                        Nancy O. CommunityMVP

                                        Editable Regions are for Dw Templates used in Dreamweaver software only.

                                         

                                        Contribute uses Editable Regions. That's a stand alone product you & your client would need to purchase.  IMO, Contribute has outlived its usefullness.   A CMS on the server would be a much better solution.

                                         

                                        Can you write PHP includes?

                                         

                                         

                                        Nancy O.

                                        • 17. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                          Lawrence_Cramer CommunityMVP

                                          Hi Nancy,

                                           

                                          With all due respect, I beg to differ in this point.  Sometimes, for a small  site the complexity that a database driven full CMS introduces can be more trouble than it's worth and Contribute offers a very viable alternative!

                                           

                                          I have many sites that I've done that are a combination of Cartweaver, for the store and "static" pages that are managed using Contribute, and they work amazingly well, the clients love them!

                                           

                                          Here's a very good example:  http://www.myscrapchick.com/

                                           

                                          The tipping point is, what is the intended use of the site and how many pages will it likely grow to. If the site is small and will always stay that way, as many small regular and e-commerce sites do, then managing the static pages with Contribute is a very effective, user friendly way to go.

                                           

                                          As with anything else, just look what the job is and the tools at your disposal, then pick the best tools for the job.  Contribute in the right circumstances can be a very good tool.

                                          --
                                          Lawrence Cramer - *Adobe Community Professional*
                                          http://www.Cartweaver.com
                                          PHP & ColdFusion Shopping Cart for Adobe Dreamweaver

                                          Stay updated:
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                                          http://www.twitter.com/cartweaver
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                                          • 18. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                            Nancy O. CommunityMVP

                                            I don't use Contribute because it straddles users to stand-alone software which Adobe may or may not be offering in the future.  It's worth noting that Contribute is NOT available from the Creative Cloud.

                                             

                                            I agree that a databased CMS might be overkill here.  We don't know for sure.  That said, a simple xml or flat file CMS might very well fit the OP's requirements without a heck of a lot of heavy lifting. 

                                             

                                             

                                            Nancy O.

                                            • 19. Re: Customer EDITS and CARTWEAVER dilema
                                              Lawrence_Cramer CommunityMVP

                                              "it straddles users to stand-alone software"

                                               

                                              Like Dreamweaver, Photoshop, or from others, MS Word, Outlook...  We do our jobs with "stand alone software". As for the "may or may not be offering", that goes to the same thing.  It is standalone, even if they did quit offering it, which there is no statement anywhere that they are, and in fact they still maintain an active development team and many large Adobe clients use it, but even if they did, the one you have will still work. For a lonnnnng time.  A lot longer than most let their web sites go before updating them. If it works on a site now, it will work for years to come.

                                               

                                              Sometimes web developers make things too complicated. It's like the zealots that declare that jQuery is bad and that all JavaScript should be written for the specific task at hand, or those that are so biased against tables that they will create incredibility complex CSS to deliver tabular data, which SHOULD be in a table.

                                               

                                              Again I say, look at the task at hand, then size up the tools at your disposal and use what works best in the given situation.  And for many, many situations I've yet to find a tool as well suited as Contribute. But am I a Contribute zealot?  Heck no!  I totally see the need for CMS solutions.  Doing a large frequently updated site air a blog without one would be a bad idea!

                                               

                                              --
                                              Lawrence Cramer - *Adobe Community Professional*
                                              http://www.Cartweaver.com
                                              PHP & ColdFusion Shopping Cart for Adobe Dreamweaver

                                              Stay updated:
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                                              http://www.twitter.com/cartweaver
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