1 2 3 Previous Next 80 Replies Latest reply on Mar 20, 2013 1:08 PM by gator soup

    CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile

    gator soup Level 4

      I am trying to figure what's going on with Indesign File> Export PDF is stripping one of my embedded ICC profiles.

       

      My test document has four tagged Photoshop RGB .jpg objects (sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhotoRGB, WhackedRGB).

       

      Indesign working space RGB is sRGB.

       

      OUTPUT SETTINGS:

       

      Output.jpg

       

      GENERAL: Create Tagged PDF

      COMPRESSION: Do not downsample; None

       

      Yet Acrobat Object Inspector is reading the formerly tagged sRGB object as Device RGB.

      It reads the other three tagged objects correctly.

       

      It also does this in Indesign 5.5.

      I want all to include ALL tagged source profiles as noted in my above screenshot setting.

       

      Inspector.jpg

       

      My .indd and more screenshots and exported problem .pdf are ZIP HERE

        • 1. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Does it behave any differently if you use the PDF/X-4 setting?

          • 2. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
            gator soup Level 4

            Does it behave any differently if you use the PDF/X-4 setting?

             

            yes, these settings (screenshot below) appear to correctly embed my 4ea original tagged profiles unchanged, but they also Assigned (for lack of a better term) sRGB (my Indesign and Acrobat Working RGB) to the 4ea untagged set and embedded that sRGB profile in each of them:

             

            x4.jpg

             

            however, I do not want profiles embedded in my untagged objects — I want all eight objects in my test .indd exported to .pdf with no changes and most certainly not mistagged with the wrong profile

             

            Output> PDF/X> "Output Intent Profile Name" seems to require a profile (Destination Space) -- my PDI images are already in their final Destination Spaces, and since those spaces are different and I don't want any changes whatsoever, this is very confusing

             

            I am trying to learn how to use Indesign's Export feature to simply package my RGB (and CMYK) objects without changing them in any way...

            • 3. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
              gator soup Level 4

              this may give you a bigger picture:

               

              The left column has four embedded profiles (four different colorspaces as imprinted on each image)

              The right column has the same exact images except they have no profiles embedded

               

              The goal is to Export them to PDF with no changes whatsoever

               

              1.jpg

              • 4. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                If you place untagged content into ID it is presumed to be in the current working space -- you have to have some profile assumption for output. And you cannot have more than one output intent for a document, so if the tagged profile is a mismatch it is not already using the output intent.

                 

                Seems to me the X-4 preset is behaving correctly.

                • 5. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                  gator soup Level 4

                  thanks, Peter, I have a good understanding of Source, Destination, Assign, Convert, Presume, Assume, Pass Through unchanged

                   

                  and it is pretty easy to prove those in Acrobat's Object Inspector and Photoshop

                   

                  if the X-4 preset is is behaving correctly -- it Assumes or Presumes a Destination profile (the reason it is tagging my untagged objects with my default Working RGB) -- then my original question remains:

                   

                  • how to Export my images to PDF with no changes whatsoever

                   

                  my earlier InDesign> Export Adobe PDF> Output> Color:

                   

                  1. Color Conversion: "No Color Conversion" and
                  2. Profile Inclusion Policy: "Include Tagged Source Profiles"

                   

                  could not be more clear English,

                  and these settings do exactly what they say (what I want) -- except -- they are untagging the one tagged sRGB object:

                   

                  Output2.jpg

                   

                  In Photoshop, that would be like trying to Save a tagged sRGB .tif with "Embed Color Profile: sRGB" checked, but it doesn't embed any profile for some strange reason despite the plain English:

                   

                  er.jpg

                  • 6. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    OK, so what you are saying is you want your tagged images to retain the tags, and the untagged images to be assumed in the PDF to have the deviceRGB tag, is that correct? Or do you want them to have no tag at all? Seems to me the RIP needs something on which to base a conversion, and I'm not sure waht it would do with either Device RGB or no tag at all.

                     

                    We are starting to get outside my comfort zone here, but it sounds like you are not happy with PDF/X-4 because it seems to tag the untagged to make them behave the way they appear in the document in ID. I think I can accept the logic in that, but I can also understand that you might not and that you would want the numbers passed untagged so they would be presumed to be in whatever the default space used by the RIP might be, unpredictable as that is.

                    • 7. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                      gator soup Level 4
                      you want your tagged images to retain the tags, and the untagged images to be assumed in the PDF to have the deviceRGB tag (notation in Object Inspector)

                       

                       

                      yes, exactly, i think Acrobat's Object Inspector notes untagged objects as "Device" RGB or CMYK or Gray -- so that would be proof a profile isn't embedded

                       

                      PDF/X-4 isn't working because it apparently presumes untagged objects are in its Working Space and then it embeds that profile in untagged objects during Export

                       

                      using four very different source spaces in my tests allow me to observe exactly what's going on (and that's what i am trying to figure out)

                       

                      make them behave the way they appear in the document in ID

                       

                      how my untagged objects appear in Indesign and Acrobat are of little importance to me because simply changing their Working Spaces alters their presumptions and on-screen appearance -- and i don't want user settings affecting my original source colors

                       

                      i'm writing this basic CONVERT COLORS WORKFLOW and i am stumped a second time now by Adobe English dialogs...

                       

                       

                       

                       


                      • 8. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        I don't work for Adobe, and I can't speak for them, but I would guess that some of the confusion here may come from a need to "simplify" the language used in the dialogs so it will fit.

                         

                        You might want to write this up as a bug: Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          I skimmed (not read thoroughly) your linked article. I think I understand where you are going, but I wonder how relevant this is in the real world for ID users. My presumption is that if you are building a file in ID you want it to output the way it looks on screen (at least I do), which means I do want untagged images to get tagged into the document working space on export so that the color renders as I intend.

                           

                          And, of course, there's always the caveat that one shouldn't forget to tag images withthe correct profile when they're saved to begin with, but that's a completely different discussion.

                          • 10. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                            gator soup Level 4

                            but I wonder how relevant this is in the real world for ID users

                             

                            that may depend on the user and what world s/he works in

                             

                            i think knowing how ID (and Acrobat) react to tagged/untagged color is relevant to anyone who exports or handles pdf

                             

                            especially when the Adobe dialogs don't do what they say they do in plain English

                             

                            all that may just be my curiosity and way of understanding what i am doing, tho

                             


                            • 11. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                              G.Hoffmann Level 3

                              In this lengthy thread it finally turned out (detected by A.R.) that

                              Photoshop PDF might be buggy:

                               

                              http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1141062?start=0&tstart=0

                               

                              Now we are talking about InDesign PDFs, and according to Gator

                              these are buggy as well.

                              Here, these exports are correct, but my apologies, done by CS2,

                              which works for me flawlessly (*one exception) since many years.

                               

                              http://docs-hoffmann.de/colpdf27022008.pdf

                               

                              This doc shows on p.6 six images in these colorspaces:

                              sRGB

                              aRGB (AdobeRGB)

                              ISO Coated

                              Euroscale Coated

                              Black Ink ISO Coated (Gray)

                              Black Ink Euroscale Coated (Gray)

                               

                              Document space:

                              sRGB

                              ISO Coated v2 (ECI)

                              *) Gray: not available

                               

                              Export to PDF:

                              No color conversion

                              Include all RGB and tagged source CMYK profiles 

                               

                              PDF analysis shows:

                              ICC-analysis.png

                              Images are based on ICC profiles  (not Device color) for

                              sRGB

                              aRGB

                              ISO Coated

                              Euroscale Coated

                              *) Gray profiles are generally ignored by InDesign CS2

                               

                              'Embedded files none' doesn't mean that no profiles are embedded.

                              The file size is about 3.5 MByte because of the embedded CMYK

                              profiles (converting all images to ProPhoto reduces the file size to

                              350kByte).

                               

                              By the way:

                              Using several untagged RGB images for different color spaces in

                              the same PDF is in my humble opinion not the least helpful -

                              it's only confusing.

                               

                              Should the old version C2 work correctly, whereas new versions

                              are buggy?

                               

                              Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

                              • 12. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                gator soup Level 4

                                we are talking about InDesign PDFs, and according to Gator

                                these are buggy as well.

                                 

                                Gernot,

                                 

                                Photoshop .pdf file format -- as i outlined in that thread you bring up does appear to have the problem i detected with Acrobat's Convert Colors -- you and two other users confirmed they got the same incorrect results using my test document and settings (it displayed and was tagged as my POSTED screenshots)

                                 

                                and yes, this thread points to a different problem with InDesign's Export PDF stripping one of the four Tagged profiles -- as i outlined above, but to repeat myself:

                                 

                                my (above) InDesign> Export Adobe PDF> Output> Color:

                                 

                                1. Color Conversion: "No Color Conversion" and
                                2. Profile Inclusion Policy: "Include Tagged Source Profiles"

                                 

                                could not be more clear English,

                                and these settings do exactly what they say (what I want) -- except -- they are untagging the one tagged sRGB objects

                                 

                                i think we are beating a dead horse here, buddy, unless anyone can explain the reason stripping one profile of the four profiles makes any commonsense -- why ID's Export PDF is stripping the one profile using those settings under my controlled test conditions (zip test folder)...

                                 

                                you may recall I am using ID CS6 and Acrobat 10.1 (latest updates ran)

                                 

                                gary

                                • 13. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Output> PDF/X> "Output Intent Profile Name" seems to require a profile (Destination Space) -- my PDF images are already in their final Destination Spaces, and since those spaces are different and I don't want any changes whatsoever, this is very confusing

                                  The output intent is the profile of the press the job is intended for—or the profile that's expected to be used for converting RGB objects to CMYK on output. A different destination profile could be chosen at output, but there can only be one destination.

                                   

                                  If you want everything tagged why are you placing untagged images? When you export PDF/X-4, untagged images  get the document's profile because the X-4 standard requires every object have a tag. If you don't want your untagged images to get assigned document RGB you choose a different profile via Object>Image Color Settings...

                                  • 14. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                    gator soup Level 4

                                    Thanks, Rob:

                                     

                                    The output intent

                                     

                                    You mean InDesign> Export PDF> Output> PDF/X> "Output Intent Profile Name", right?

                                     

                                    PDF/X-4 Tages my Untagged objects with the wong profile (my default Working Space).

                                     

                                    So PDF/X-4 isn't going to work for this test.

                                     

                                    If you want everything tagged why are you placing untagged images?

                                     

                                    I don't want everything tagged.

                                     

                                    I want what's selected in my first screenshot to happen:

                                     

                                    Output:

                                    Color Conversion: NO COLOR CONVERSION

                                    Profile Inclusion Policy: INCLUDE TAGGED SOURCE PROFILES

                                    PDF/X: NA (grayed out)

                                     

                                    That does what I want, but it is stripping the profile from my tagged sRGB object -- the other three tagged objects and untagged objects appear to be exactly what I saved in Photoshop.

                                     

                                    +++++

                                     

                                    I have the project zip uploaded, to prove or disprove what I'm saying, one would only need to

                                     

                                    1. set InDesign and Acrobat Color Settings to Working RGB: sRGB (Preserve Profiles) and Adobe ACE,
                                    2. open my .indd,
                                    3. Export it to PDF unsing my settings, and
                                    4. check the profiles with Object Inspector (here that means the tagged sRGB has become DeviceRGB)
                                    • 15. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      You could set your document profile to a profile you're not importing something like Monitor RGB. You're not including all profiles so native RGB objects get exported without a tag and are DeviceRGB no matter what the document's RGB assignment is.

                                      • 16. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                        gator soup Level 4

                                        Rob, I don't have a clue what you mean, could you possibly post a couple screenshots if Exporting my .indd using your method will leave my original Photoshop .jpgs unchanged...

                                        • 17. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Here I'm assigning an RGB profile to my doc that isn't embedded in one of the placed files—my monitor profile in this case:

                                           

                                          Screen shot 2013-02-26 at 7.28.23 AM.png

                                           

                                           

                                          When I export with Include Tagged Source Profiles, only the AdobeRGB and sRGB images keep their profiles. The native color is left untagged because I did not choose Include All Profiles.

                                           

                                           

                                          The native ID fill

                                           

                                          AcrobatScreenSnapz002.png

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          The image with no tag

                                           

                                          AcrobatScreenSnapz001.png

                                           

                                           

                                          The sRGB image

                                           

                                          AcrobatScreenSnapz003.png

                                          • 18. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            I'm still not following why you want untagged RGB to make it through to the PDF. Untagged images will eventually get an assignment over in Acrobat—it will be whatever the Acrobat CM RGB Working Space happens to be at output

                                            • 19. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                              gator soup Level 4

                                              Rob, thank you so much for your effort, I know how time consuming it is to read this stuff, let alone post responses and screenshots.

                                               

                                              I am crystal clear on Adobe's approach to Assign Profile and I looked at your examples with interest.

                                               

                                              I think, tho, the only screenshot that will get through my thick skull at this point is InDesign> Export PDF: Output

                                               

                                              why you want untagged RGB to make it through to the PDF

                                               

                                              Exporting untagged RGB is not a problem.

                                              I get the four untagged .jpgs Exported into .pdf just fine (screen shot in my original post).

                                               

                                              The problem is only the tagged sRGB is being stripped of its profile.

                                               

                                              The 10 RGB .jpgs (5 tagged/untagged pairs) are set up to show me exactly what's going on during Export, and losing only the sRGB profile on Export defies logic.

                                               

                                              If the Export feature worked as it reads in plain English, I would have been back to work days ago...

                                               

                                              • Profile Inclusion Policy: "Include Tagged Source Profiles"
                                              • 20. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Exporting untagged RGB is not a problem.

                                                I get the four untagged .jpgs Exported into .pdf just fine (screen shot in my original post).

                                                 

                                                Over in Acrobat your untagged images will get Acrobat's working space, so if it's set to sRGB in the color management prefs, the untagged images get assigned sRGB.

                                                 

                                                So, what's the problem with setting the ID document RGB assignment to sRGB and exporting PDF/X-4? The result will be the same, in both cases the untagged files get assigned sRGB. The problem with letting them go through without a profile is the assignment in Acrobat will be arbitrary, it will be whatever the pref happens to be set at.

                                                • 21. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                  gator soup Level 4

                                                  in Acrobat your untagged images will get Acrobat's working space, so if it's set to sRGB in the color management prefs, the untagged images get assigned sRGB.


                                                  The problem with letting them go through without a profile is the assignment in Acrobat will be arbitrary, it will be whatever the pref happens to be set at.

                                                   

                                                  Yes, exactly -- Acrobat will will assume sRGB for Source>Monitor and Source>Destination color conversions -- I get that.

                                                   

                                                  what's the problem with setting the ID document RGB assignment to sRGB and exporting PDF/X-4?

                                                   

                                                  PDF/X-4 appears to require a destination profile and tags all four flavors of my untagged RGB with that profile - again PDF/X-4 isn't going to work for my test.  And assigning the wrong profile (mistagging objects) to try and work around this problem seems like it would open a severely complicated bucket of worms to sort out.

                                                   

                                                  Do you know of any InDesign>Export PDF Output settings that will do no color conversions, include my four original tagged source profiles, and leave my untagged objects untagged?

                                                  • 22. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Yes, exactly -- Acrobat will will assume sRGB for Source>Monitor and Source>Destination color conversions -- I get that

                                                    No, Acrobat will assign whatever happens to be the current Working RGB space—Preferences>Color Management>RGB, which could be anything. The other CS applications work the same way. If you open an untagged Photoshop file it gets assigned whatever happens to be the current Color Setting's Working Space

                                                     

                                                    PDF/X-4 appears to require a destination profile and tags all four flavors of my untagged RGB with that profile

                                                     

                                                    It's requiring everything have source profiles, the destination is chosen at output. What is the correct source profile for your untagged images?

                                                     

                                                    And assigning the wrong profile (mistagging objects) to try and work around this problem seems like it would open a severely complicated bucket of worms to sort out.

                                                     

                                                    In my example the native objects are exporting untagged. They don't get the assigned document RGB profile because we are not choosing Include All Profiles. Untagged native RGB objects would present a problem at output, but so would your untagged RGB images.

                                                    • 23. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                      G.Hoffmann Level 3

                                                      Referring to post #20:

                                                       

                                                      Rob,

                                                       

                                                      IMO, your statement

                                                       

                                                      Over in Acrobat your untagged images will get Acrobat's working space, so if it's set to sRGB in the color management prefs, the untagged images get assigned sRGB.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      is correct, if you mean by Acrobat  reading the PDF. I won't be correct, if you mean

                                                      Export to PDF - just to clarify this.

                                                       

                                                      This doc

                                                      http://docs-hoffmann.de/a3gencolorhigh.pdf

                                                      contains on purpose many untagged color graphics. The source color space is always

                                                      clearly indicated on each page. For instance p.6: ProPhotoRGB.

                                                       

                                                      Open this doc in Photoshop and assign ProPhotoRGB - the appearance will be correct

                                                      and the measurable RGB numbers (Info) are indeed that of the source - ProPhotoRGB,

                                                      as printed in the patches.

                                                       

                                                      This says, like all other tests:

                                                      InDesign's Export to PDF leaves all images untouched if exported in mode

                                                      No Color Conversion

                                                      -----

                                                      The claim, that Export to PDF strips profiles from tagged images needs to be proved,

                                                      based on the complete workflow, mainly by the complete folder of sources. Perhaps

                                                      the respective sRGB image was saved without profile (untagged)?

                                                       

                                                      I don't believe that Export to PDF had been modified since version CS2 (mine) so,

                                                      that it is now buggy. This could be easily proved.

                                                      But please, by two different workflows, resulting in two different threads:

                                                      a) the case of untagged images

                                                      b) the case of tagged images

                                                       

                                                      Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

                                                      • 24. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Here's the effect of Acrobat's working space on untagged objects.

                                                         

                                                        If I set working RGB to sRGB my untagged example matches the tagged sRGB imageScreen shot 2013-02-26 at 12.48.40 PM.png

                                                         

                                                        If I change the working space to ProPhoto the previews of the untagged RGB objects change accordingly:

                                                         

                                                        Screen shot 2013-02-26 at 12.49.09 PM.png

                                                        • 25. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          The claim, that Export to PDF strips profiles from tagged images needs to be proved,

                                                          based on the complete workflow, mainly by the complete folder of sources. Perhaps

                                                          the respective sRGB image was saved without profile (untagged)?

                                                           

                                                          When you place an image  with a profile that matches the ID document's profile, the assignment is considered document RGB. To include the document RGB profile on export you have to choose Include All Profiles (i.e., PDF/X-4).

                                                           

                                                          You are right there are no conversions happening here, it's just a question of what profiles get exported with the PDF. There could be an argument for exporting CMYK untagged (you want to protect certain CMYK mixes), but not RGB.

                                                          • 26. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                            gator soup Level 4

                                                            GS WROTE:

                                                             

                                                            Yes, exactly -- Acrobat will will assume sRGB for Source>Monitor and Source>Destination color conversions -- I get that

                                                             

                                                            RD wrote:

                                                             

                                                            No, Acrobat will assign whatever happens to be the current Working RGB space—Preferences>Color Management>RGB

                                                            Yes, you said it better than me ... though in more mainstream terminology, Acrobat "Assumes" the current working space for tagged and untagged objects that are not otherwise being color managed (tho I prefer "Assign" because it has the same effect and it is easier for me to prove)

                                                             

                                                            i just got back from my morning shoot, will drop back in later....

                                                            • 27. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                              gator soup Level 4

                                                              The claim, that Export to PDF strips profiles from tagged images needs to be proved,

                                                              based on the complete workflow, mainly by the complete folder of sources.

                                                               

                                                              Yes, that's why I zipped/uploaded my project folder (with my image folder, my .indd, my screen shots, and my exported .pdf)

                                                               

                                                              I have a theory to try how to Export all objects using my settings with no problem -- since the process is stripping only InDesign's and Acrobat's working profile (sRGB) and not the other three profiles -- maybe setting one or both apps' Working RGB to to MonitorRGB, for example, will fool the behavior into not stripping the sRGB profile...

                                                              • 28. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                gator soup Level 4

                                                                PS:

                                                                 

                                                                my ID>Export test is unconcerned with converting objects to a final destination -- I am merely trying to understand how that process (my settings) is reacting to my tagged/untagged RGB sets...

                                                                 

                                                                Gernot, thanks for hanging in here, I don't think I can save my .indd back to CS2 compatibility (or I would do that for you)

                                                                • 29. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  Acrobat "Assumes" the current working space for tagged and untagged objects

                                                                  No, only untagged objects get assigned the Working Space, which Preflight and Output Preview label as DeviceRGB.

                                                                  • 30. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                    gator soup Level 4

                                                                    i am not exactly positive how Acrobat works, though I understand Object Inspector notes objects in Acrobat as "Device" when no profile being used for that object (other that Acrobat's Working profile)

                                                                     

                                                                    however,

                                                                     

                                                                    when I open a tagged file in Photoshop and choose "do not color manage" -- ie, strip its embedded profile -- Photoshop (and likely every other color managed Adobe app) "Assumes" its Working Space

                                                                     

                                                                    how can Acrobat be any different

                                                                    • 31. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      how can Acrobat be any different

                                                                       

                                                                      It isn't, that's my point.

                                                                       

                                                                      Untagged RGB images are a problem in any of the applications because the assignment will be arbitrary. It will be sRGB on your machine because your working space happens to be sRGB, on mine it will be AdobeRGB—the preview will change between our two machines.

                                                                      • 32. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                        gator soup Level 4

                                                                        i believe that was my point

                                                                        • 33. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          Ok, so why would you want to place untagged RGB and let them export that way? If your Acrobat working space is the correct source profile why not assign it in ID?

                                                                          • 34. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                            gator soup Level 4

                                                                            why would you want to place untagged RGB and let them export that way?

                                                                             

                                                                            because i like to know what my software is doing, especially color management wise

                                                                            • 35. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                              gator soup Level 4

                                                                              sorry this thread is so long... the problem seems to be the "magic" sRGB profile...

                                                                              To reproduce the problem:

                                                                               

                                                                              1) click on the thumbnail below and drag the popup PDI reference image to your desktop (it is Tagged sRGB as marked)

                                                                               

                                                                              PDI_Target_sRGB-lowrez.jpg

                                                                               

                                                                              2) make a new doc in InDesign (I'm using CS6).

                                                                               

                                                                              3) File>Place the "PDI_Target_sRGB-lowrez.jpg"

                                                                               

                                                                              4) File>Export PDF using these settings:

                                                                               

                                                                              Export.png

                                                                               

                                                                              Compression.png

                                                                               

                                                                              Output.png

                                                                               

                                                                              5) open the exported PDF in Acrobat (I'm using 10.1)

                                                                               

                                                                              6) Go to View> Tools> Print Production> Output Preview> Object Inspector and click on the object (the PDI reference image)

                                                                               

                                                                              I get "DeviceRGB" -- the ICC profile has been stripped.

                                                                              • 36. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                I get "DeviceRGB" -- the ICC profile has been stripped.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I do not. That's because my CM RGB Policy is set to Preserve Embedded and my Working RGB space is AdobeRGB so AdobeRGB gets assigned to the new document.

                                                                                 

                                                                                See my #25.

                                                                                • 37. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                                  gator soup Level 4

                                                                                  your working space should be irrelevent with tagged images if you are "preserving embedded profiles" and not doing any conversions (the Export settings indicate my source objects should Export unaltered)

                                                                                   

                                                                                  or how else could the other three tagged images (and four untagged images) in my original test appear unaltered during the process AND retain the proper embedded profiles

                                                                                   

                                                                                  can you post screenshots of the "CM RGB Policy" you are talking about and Object Inspector with the adjacent PDI you are clicking on

                                                                                  • 38. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                    your working space should be irrelevent with tagged images if you are "preserving embedded profiles" (the Export settings indicate my source should Export unaltered)

                                                                                    With Preserve Embedded as the RGB policy my new document gets assigned AdobeRGB—the assigned Document RGB profile (not the RGB working space) color manages native and untagged RGB objects. In this case a placed AdobeRGB image would be considered document RGB, so to include its profile on export I have to export the document RGB profile via Include All Profiles.

                                                                                     

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                                                                                    • 39. Re: CS6 CS5.5 Export PDF stripping embedded profile
                                                                                      gator soup Level 4

                                                                                      With Preserve Embedded as the RGB policy my new document gets assigned AdobeRGB—the assigned Document RGB profile color manages native and untagged RGB objects not the RGB working space.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      you completely lost me there, sorry

                                                                                       

                                                                                      our InDesign Color Settings look the same except you are on Adobe RGB and I was sRGB during my test

                                                                                      my Acrobat is set to North America General 2 (sRGB)

                                                                                       

                                                                                      but i ran my original test with InDesign (and Acrobat) Working RGB changed to Adobe RGB and it also striped the sRGB profile on Export to PDF, however i didn't create a new ID document from AdobeRGB Working Space (if that makes any difference, i will give it a go)

                                                                                       

                                                                                      In this case a placed AdobeRGB image would be considered document RGB, so to include its profile on export I have to export the document RGB profile via Include All Profiles.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      exactly

                                                                                      my Export> Output> Color Conversion> Profile Inclusion Policy: "Include Tagged Source Profiles"

                                                                                       

                                                                                      your Object Inspector screenshot is helpful

                                                                                       

                                                                                      my only conclusion from that screenshot is either you did not use my settings or our software is behaving differently (i tested on three Macs, one running 10.6.8 and two 10.7.5 workstations, CS6 InDesign 8.0.1 and Acrobat 10.1.6 and 10.1.5)

                                                                                       

                                                                                      with my notes in #35 is easy for anyone to run their own test

                                                                                       

                                                                                      seeing is believing...

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