29 Replies Latest reply on Feb 26, 2013 3:35 PM by Jim_Simon

    Why does Adobe implement new features half way?

    nullsebasvideo Level 1

      The new hover scrub with big thumbnails in icon view would be certainly useful if it was implemented in a way that works. As it is, it's useless. Unless your total footage is about ten clips, you end up with dozens or over a hundred clips with no way to sort them out, unless you love wasting time and you drag them all around in the order you want, which I'm sure very few people are willing to do.

       

      So why does Adobe bring in a new feature, even makes tutorials about it, when for most people is absolutely useless? I don't get it.

       

      Oh, and before you nag me about filing a feature request, don't. I already did it, and this is not something anyone should do. Feature requests should be for new ideas, not a crutch for Adobe to rely on to release new features half way, and then expect people to nag them about it to finish them.

        • 1. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
          cfg_2451 Level 2

          Complaining is easy. What's hard, is coming up with solutions. So... what's your solution to this problem? How do you think Adobe could have done better? I'm serious -- I've thought about this problem myself, and haven't come up with a better way yet.

          • 2. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
            nullsebasvideo Level 1

            I'm not sure what you mean, the solution is obvious. A right click command to have the clips sort by, if not all, at least a handful of criteria, such as date and time created, name, etc. If it's not right click it can be that menu on the top right of each window.

             

            What makes me really upset is that Adobe patially implements a feature to say Premiere CS6 has a new feature, to add one new feature to the list. But, as it is, it's absolutely useless for anything more than a few clips. Even if they wouldn't offer any kind of sorting, it would still be a useful feature if by default it was sorted by date and time of creation, but as it is, absolutely random, it's a waste of time. So Adobe said, let's include this new feature half way just to say we have a new feature, and if users want it the way it should be, we'll do it for Premiere CS6.5 or CS7 and add it to the list of features: "Hey, now you can sort in icon view" Woo hoo!

             

            Adobe, don't waste people's time, either implement a feature completely, or don't implement it at all.

            • 3. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
              lasvideo Level 4

              Posting requests to Adobe here is another waste of time. If you want to request a feature or report a bug, do it here.

               

              https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

              • 4. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                A right click command to have the clips sort by, if not all, at least a handful of criteria

                 

                You have that in List view.  If you want to call Hover Scrub only half-implemented, it's not because you can't sort in Icon view, it's because Hover Scrub isn't available in List view.

                • 5. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                  Evil Edison Level 1

                  Wouldn't it be easy enough to include a sort feature in the Icon view, or at the very least, have them remain in the same order that they appear in the sorted List view?  I agree with Sebasvideo--I find it very aggravating that you can't control the order of the clips in Hover view (which aside from that is a great feature).

                  • 6. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    have them remain in the same order that they appear in the sorted List view?

                     

                    The problem there is that if you manually sort them storyboard fashion, which is what Icon view is designed for, you lose your sorting if you ever leave Icon view.  Now if you want to say that Icon keeps the same sorting as List the first time you enter Icon mode, that'd work.

                     

                    I find it very aggravating that you can't control the order of the clips in Hover view

                     

                    But you can.  You put them in whatever order you want, which is what this view is designed for.

                    • 7. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                      nullsebasvideo Level 1

                      Jim Simon wrote:

                       

                      But you can.  You put them in whatever order you want, which is what this view is designed for.

                       

                      Really? Sort them manually? That's your solution? So for example, in my current project, consisting of 89 clips, many of which look the same at the beginning, and with the only help of file name and duration, I'm supposed to rearrange all of them in the order I want, when the order I want is simply date and time of capture? Please, this "feature" is broken and useless as it is, you know it and Adobe knows it. They didn't have time to implement it properly and they just left it there to add one more thing to the list.

                      • 8. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        I'm supposed to rearrange all of them in the order I want

                         

                        You're not supposed to.  You're able to.  Manual arrangement of the clips is what Icon view is for.  If you want to sort them automatically, use List view.

                         

                        If you want Hover Scrub in List view, tell Adobe.

                        • 9. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                          nullsebasvideo Level 1

                          Jim Simon wrote:

                           

                          I'm supposed to rearrange all of them in the order I want

                           

                          You're not supposed to.  You're able to.  Manual arrangement of the clips is what Icon view is for.  If you want to sort them automatically, use List view.

                           

                          If you want Hover Scrub in List view, tell Adobe.

                          Manual arrangement is one of the things icon view should be there for. Nobody that appreciates their own time will waste it manually arranging dozens of clips.

                           

                          Hover scrub in list view would be fine, but list view can't go up in size as much as icon view.

                           

                          The feature is broken and useless, simple as that. Adobe should stop trying to earn points on incomplete features, release them completely, or not at all.

                          • 10. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                            shooternz Level 6

                            I never actually use the Icon view or the Hover Scrub etc...but I cant see any reason why Icons / Thumbnails cant be sorted at least alpha / numerically.

                             

                            Windows Explorer can easily do this.

                             

                            (meta data sorting maybe a different story though)

                             

                            I would think that if one could sort in List View and that maintained the sort order forIcon View...that would appease many.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                              Sebasvideo wrote:

                               

                              The feature is broken and useless, simple as that. Adobe should stop trying to earn points on half assed features, release them completely, or not at all.

                               

                              We understand your (and others) criticism of the feature and we know about the feature requests to have more sortable criteria in icon view. Thanks for making your feature request.

                              • 12. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                Sebasvideo,

                                 

                                I've had to delete profanity out of several of your posts.  Keep your language family-friendly, please.

                                 

                                Jeff

                                • 13. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                  nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                  Jeff Bellune wrote:

                                   

                                  Sebasvideo,

                                   

                                  I've had to delete profanity out of several of your posts.  Keep your language family-friendly, please.

                                   

                                  Jeff

                                  What profanity?

                                  • 15. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                    PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                    I completely agree with you Sebasvideo.  Well said! 

                                     

                                    Multi-cam editing is the biggest example I can think of of Adobe release a half-baked idea for the sake of saying that it has the feature.  It's broken and simply doesn't work the way it should.  Currious of how FCPX handles multi-cam editing, I recently watched a few tutorials on YouTube, including (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFmyXWaQHM).  Now THAT's how it should work in PP! (i.e. automatic clip syncing based on audio, integration/simultaneous playback with Timeline and Program Monitor, ability to display 2 16x9 camera angles inteligently (one on top of the other instead of side by side), etc!

                                     

                                    FCP editors were furious that the first version of FCPX came without multi-cam editing.  But between getting a half-baked feature today, or getting a truly functional feature tomorrow, I for one prefer to wait a little and get a full fledged feature tomorrow rather than today.  Hopefully PP fixes its horrible multi-cam editing in PP6.5.  Otherwise, I might have to go to FCPX (at least for my multicam projects).

                                    • 16. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                      Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                      PierreLouisBeranek wrote:

                                       

                                      (...automatic clip syncing based on audio, integration/simultaneous playback with Timeline and Program Monitor, ability to display 2 16x9 camera angles inteligently (one on top of the other instead of side by side), etc!

                                      Make that feature request then: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                                      • 17. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                        strypesinpost Level 2

                                        Also, understand that product cycles are now shorter to allow Adobe faster reaction time to changes in real world trends. It was a joke at NAB last year, someone will release a feature, then they'll finally get it working in the .5 update.

                                        • 18. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                          Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                          strypesinpost wrote:

                                           

                                          Also, understand that product cycles are now shorter to allow Adobe faster reaction time to changes in real world trends.

                                          Yep, that's why feature requests are so important these days. We now can react in a more timely manner for important requests, but you do still have to make them.

                                          • 19. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                            PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                            Hi Kevin,

                                             

                                            As always, any Feature Requests I post here, I also send to Adobe through the official channel you mention.

                                             

                                            Can't wait to see what's new in CS6.5!  In the meantime, I'm taking a look at what FCPX currently offers and I like a lot of what I see.  Glad to see Apple is still in the game in order to keep things competitive and help PP inovate even further!  Several things I've been requesting in PP have appeared in FCPX, such as smart bins that automatically collect certain types of media, such as all nests (really hope to finally see this in CS6.5!)   Might have to switch to a Mac in the near future to be able to use both PP and FCPX on the same machine.

                                             

                                            Cheers

                                            • 20. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                              joe bloe premiere Level 5
                                              ...in the near future to be able to use both PP and FCPX on the same machine.

                                              If you live long enough, you will run both on your phone.

                                              Cheers!

                                              • 22. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                Hover scrub in list view would be fine, but list view can't go up in size as much as icon view.

                                                 

                                                Granted, that would be the other side of the 'feature' coin.  Both Hover Scrub and more scaleable previews need to be implemented for List mode.

                                                • 23. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  Nobody that appreciates their own time will waste it manually arranging dozens of clips.

                                                   

                                                  You will if you're doing a storyboard, which is what Icon view is for.

                                                  • 24. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                    nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                                    Jim Simon wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Nobody that appreciates their own time will waste it manually arranging dozens of clips.

                                                     

                                                    You will if you're doing a storyboard, which is what Icon view is for.

                                                    Really? It seems to me you're trying to argue for the sake of argueing. So let's say you shoot a movie. You have hundreds of clips. You also have maybe 5 or 10 versions of the same take. So you have hundreds of clips on the project box. Not only you have to arrange manually hundreds of clips, you also have to make sure you arrange the clips for each take in the order they were shot, because, although this is not always the case, most likely the good take is going to be the last one.

                                                     

                                                    You can defend this to death, to me and most people, this is a broken "feature". It's not even a feature, because it lacks the minimum funcionality to be useful for anyone editing anything longer than ten clips. Which makes it useless for 99.99% of people. What's even more aggravating is that we are almost a year after CS6 was released, several updates and still this is not fixed. They will probably put it in CS6.5 or CS7 and make you pay for it. So I would have preferred a little more decency and for the Adobe Premiere team manager to say, we're not going to include this incomplete feature in CS6, we're going to get it right and include it in 6.5 or 7, in a way that people actually can take advantage of, because this is supposed to be a professional NLE, not a toy.

                                                    • 25. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      In my experience the last take isn't always the best.  A good rule of thumb I learned is to always have three good takes.  I'll decide later which one I want to use.

                                                       

                                                      And it isn't necessary to put every clip for the entire production in the same bin.

                                                       

                                                      People do use both Icon view and Hover Scrub as it is now.  Can it be made better?  Sure.  I'm only saying the better way to "make it better" is to add Hover Scrub and more scalable thumbnails to List view.  (And if automatic sorting ever does get added to Icon view, I do sincerely hope Adobe makes it idiot proof, so that people who use Icon view as it was originally designed, for manual sorting, don't ever accidentally lose the work they did to arrange their clips by clicking in the wrong spot.)

                                                      • 26. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                        Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                        Sebasvideo wrote:

                                                         

                                                        So I would have preferred a little more decency and for the Adobe Premiere team manager to say, we're not going to include this incomplete feature in CS6, we're going to get it right and include it in 6.5 or 7, in a way that people actually can take advantage of, because this is supposed to be a professional NLE, not a toy.

                                                         

                                                        Hi,

                                                        I think what you meant to say is that you wish the team would have implemented sorting features before they added hover scrubbing. Hover scrubbing is a separate feature than Icon View, which has been in the product without sorting capability for years.

                                                         

                                                        I agree with you that sorting capability should have been added to icon view long ago, but that's no reason to hold back a cool feature like hover scrubbing to the UI.

                                                         

                                                        The other thing is that we as editors do not know what goes on behind the scenes during software development. There are a number of reasons why hover scrubbing made it into the interface before sort capability.

                                                         

                                                        • Hover scrubbing might have been developed by another group, and key features important to Premiere Pro users were not yet added.
                                                        • There was not enough time to implement the feature, and other features took precedence.
                                                        • Implementing the feature broke 5 other things when it was added to the existing code.
                                                        • Implementing the feature causes the application to crash more frequently.
                                                        • Other reasons that are privy to software developers.

                                                         

                                                        Not saying that any of these things happened, but we cannot know. Honestly, there's not much more we can do as users can do but to request what we want, and how we want those things to work.

                                                        • 27. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                          nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                                          Kevin Monahan wrote:

                                                           

                                                          I think what you meant to say is that you wish the team would have implemented sorting features before they added hover scrubbing. Hover scrubbing is a separate feature than Icon View, which has been in the product without sorting capability for years.

                                                           

                                                          I agree with you that sorting capability should have been added to icon view long ago, but that's no reason to hold back a cool feature like hover scrubbing to the UI.

                                                           

                                                          As cool as it is to have hover scrubbing, it is absolutely useless without sorting of any kind, even without a basic automatic sorting by date and time of capture. Even something that simple would have made icon view and hover scrubbing useful. As it is, it's useless. I don't even understand why it is the way it is. I mean, at some point the program has to decide in what order it displays all those thumbnails. So where does it get that random order from? What dictates that? But again, it's pointless to repeat myself, I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

                                                          • 28. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                            shooternz Level 6

                                                            But again, it's pointless to repeat myself, I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

                                                             

                                                            Let it go.

                                                             

                                                            You have made your point repeatedly  and everyone agrees. (except Jim)

                                                             

                                                            K.M has acknowledged and explained in detail the Adobe bg to it all.

                                                             

                                                            We get it..o.k?

                                                            • 29. Re: Why does Adobe implement new features half way?
                                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                              at some point the program has to decide in what order it displays all those thumbnails.

                                                               

                                                              They always show up in name order for me.  Until I rearrange them, that is.  After that, they stay the way I arrange them.  This is expected behavior.