4 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2013 10:12 PM by peter minneapolis

    autonumbering and variables

    Childe Harold

      I typeset text books that use section numbering in their subheadings. Previously we've worked in Framemaker and are now converting over to InDesign. In Framemaker, we would use autonumbering in the paragraph styles for the subheads. We were able to have the subhead section numbering appear in the upper corners of the page by working with Framemaker's variable settings.

      Now that we're using InDesign, we've tried to fix this problem by creating nested styles within the subheads. This doesn't seem to work when we apply the autonumbering in the paragraph styles, and only works when actual text is present.

        • 1. Re: autonumbering and variables
          Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Can you post a few screenshots? I think I understand your question but I'm not 100% sure. One thing to note here is that in InDesign any variable (like a running subhead or whatever) is treated as a single character, so if there is e.g. a tab in your subhead variable and you have a nested style up to the tab, the nested style cannot see the tab, because the whole variable is treated as one character. Likewise, autonumbering doesn't actually create any characters in the text (look at your numbered paragraph in Story view - the numbering is not actually part of the story.

           

          There are certainly ways to get your subhead section numbering to appear in multiple places, but you'll probably need a different approach. Maybe using the "Chapter Number" in "Insert number placeholder" in the numbering section of the paragraph style? Like I said before, some screenshots will help a lot.

          • 2. Re: autonumbering and variables
            Childe Harold Level 1

            I'll try to post the screenshots soon.

            Here's a breakdown that a colleague came up:

            The Problem with Ears:

             

            We need ears to reflect autonumbered sectioning throughout our documents. The ears on the verso page should reflect the first instance of a head (it can be either Level 1 or Level 2); the ears on the recto page should reflect the last instance of a head (it can be either Level 1 or Level 2).

             

            Framemaker:

             

            We are able to do this in framemaker using variables; the coding for the recto and verso variables are as follows:

            • Treatises:
            • Verso: <paranum[Head1, Head2]>
            • Recto: <paranum[+, Head1, Head2]>
            • Answer Books:
            • Verso: <paranum[Q1, Q2]>
            • Recto: <paranum[+, Q1, Q2, NOTES]>
            • We use endnotes in our Answer Books thus the “NOTES” coding accounts for those pages at the end of the chapter that should not have ears.

             

            InDesign:

             

            We have attempted to do this in various ways; the issue seems to be that the headings are autonumbered (otherwise, we could achieve this effect using Nested Styles). When generating a Table of Contents, the program does recognize the autonumbering as text so hopefully that implies that there is indeed a way for the program to do so regarding the ears, we just have not been able to figure it out.

            • 3. Re: autonumbering and variables
              Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Yeah, this one is tough. More and more I think about revisiting Frame (I haven't used it since version 6, I think) for situations just like this. I can just guess from the treatise & answer-book structure that you're dealing with long documents and want as much of this as possible to happen without user intervention. The TOC tool and the cross-references tool both pick up numbered lists, but it seems that text variables do not. So it must be doable for InDesign CS n+1, but a feature request doesn't carry much weight, especially if you are already midstream in conversion to ID.

              • 4. Re: autonumbering and variables
                peter minneapolis Level 4

                I'm not sure if the commercial In-Tools.com's Power Headers InDesign plug-in  can capture the auto-number of an InDesign numbered-list paragraph style, so it could be worth your investigating here: http://in-tools.com/products/plugins/power-headers/

                 

                Note the suggestion on that page: "For more information on what can be accomplished with Power Headers, please check out the forum here."

                 

                You can also contact the folks from the Contact Us link with your specific questions.

                 

                And, you might want to test the downloadable trial version in your documents.

                 

                Please post what you learn.

                 

                And though it's truly a wish with no guarantee of being granted, consider adding your voice for the ability for running header text variables to capture list auto-numbers, with a formal feature request here: Wishform.

                 

                HTH

                 

                 

                Regards,

                 

                 

                Peter

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                Peter Gold

                KnowHow ProServices

                 

                 

                Joel Cherney wrote:

                 

                Yeah, this one is tough. More and more I think about revisiting Frame (I haven't used it since version 6, I think) for situations just like this. I can just guess from the treatise & answer-book structure that you're dealing with long documents and want as much of this as possible to happen without user intervention. The TOC tool and the cross-references tool both pick up numbered lists, but it seems that text variables do not. So it must be doable for InDesign CS n+1, but a feature request doesn't carry much weight, especially if you are already midstream in conversion to ID.