13 Replies Latest reply on Mar 12, 2013 10:41 AM by dang.10

    How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?

    dang.10

      I do alot of work on AE because I love all of its capabilities. At the moment i am using it to take 40 min - 1 hr footage (of lectures) and adding lower thirds and other things to improve the video and then uploading them to youtube. I am still fairly new with it since i have about a year using it, but i still know my way around it; one thing i have never  been too sure of is which type of settings I should use for each project type I may be working on. For instance, sometimes i may be working on a 30 second promo and finished it and just need to render it, I would have to render it several times in order to get a descent video. On some rendered videos some parts may be laggy, on others it may be glitchy (some what) and other different things. When i would then upload that video to youtube, the same problems would persist even though some issues would seem to be ram problems, thats one issue ive had in the past. But back to my main question, I really dont care about the rendering time because i am used to waiting 3-5 hours to finalize a video. But now I am so unsure i even want to wait that long while rendering out of AE because the end result majority of the time isnt even good. Video loses too much quality and becomes very faulty.

       

      What i do while editting is use Sony Vegas to combine the video footage (several files - 2+) with seperate audio and then render the video. I really like the rendering options from Vegas because its so straight forward and works REALLY good. (I take it into Vegas because my Sony camcorder creates the files as .MTS (AVCHD) and AE wont accept them even though i have a clean version and did everything people recommended here, so i just gave up on that.) But then after those 3-5 hours of rendering i take it into AE to get into details with the effects; I add a lower thirds bar with all appropiate info, add a curves to fix any light issues, add a fade in and fade out effect in the beginning and ending and then render out. The settings i choose to render out is...

       

      Output Mode: Format -Quicktime Format Options -H.264 Basic Settings - Quality 100
      Audio Output -48.000KHz 16 Bit Stereo
      Under "Render Settings" I dont really touch anything (quality -Best/Resolution -Full etc.)

      Hope this is enough information, sorry if i lose you while reading this. In advance, thanks for your help!

        • 1. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          The best workflow for this kind of project would be to create your lower 1/3's and titles in AE, render them to PNG compressed QT with alpha channels or Animation Codec Quick Time with with anlpa, bring those into Vegas or any other NLE and finish the production there. Doing an hour long video in AE is, let me put it impolitely, nuts. AE is not a NLE. It's job is to make shots, sequences, occasionally scenes, but never movies.

           

          As far as rendering never render a final distribution copy of a project using AE's render cue and any of the MPEG formats including H.264. AE's  cannot do multi pass rendering and that is essential for temporal compressed formats like MPEG. If you must go out of AE straight to a delivery codec then open your AE project in Adobe Media Encoder and pick one of the H.264 presets there. Their YouTube HD preset works very well and your video will be ready on YouTube much faster than if you upload something that doesn't match their specs.

           

          If you are going to do more production with the files you render from AE then you should, no make  that must use a production codec that is lossless or nearly lossless for your renders. I use ProRez on a Mac, Black Magic Design's  10 bit (a free download) or Avid's production codecs on a Windows machine or JPEG 2000 QuickTime or as mentioned above PNG QuickTime with alpha. Occasionally, if  there is a lot more work to do on the AE footage I'll use Animation Codec QT.

           

          I hope this helps.

          • 2. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
            Matt Dubuque Level 1

            Hi Rick and others, I'm concerned somewhat about this discussion. 

             

            I want to compose short transitions (45 seconds) in AE CS6 incorporating 3D graphics and also a short intro (30 seconds) containing some streaming video clips assembled in a 3d space as well.

             

            My deliverable will ulitmately be in Blu-Ray format and I need excellent quality.  Like Deng previously, I have zero concerns about the amount of time it takes to render; I only care about ultimate video quality in my deliverables.

             

            My NLE is Premiere Pro CS6.  I'm working with some beautiful Canon 5D images.  I only photograph the day after it rains so I can always get pristine shots.

             

            What is the best possible workflow for me, given my reliance on AE and PrPro and Canon 5D images and .mov files? 

             

            Am I doomed to vaguely average quality in Blu-Ray format or is it possible to have a really nice "wow" factor using this workflow?

             

            I'm going to purchase a new X.264 encoder when the Apple version is released this month.

             

            Does that make any difference in how my final results from AE will appear?


            If I need to abandon this whole 3d motion graphics enterprise because AE and PrPro, working together, are only capable of vaguely average deliverables with respect to 3D motion graphics, then so be it. 

             

            I would prefer to cut my losses now.

             

            What are your candid thoughts?

             

            Thanks,

             

            Matt

             

             

             

            LOW REZ THE BECKONING  0480.jpg

            • 3. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
              Matt Dubuque Level 1

              I do not see a "PNG Compressed QT" option as Rick recommends above.  Am I missing something here?

               

              However, I do see a "lossless" option at the top.  If I render in that, can Premiere Pro read the output ok?

               

              Not to belabor the point, but I have zero concern about render time.  My only objective is the highest quality render of short 3d Motion Graphic clips for incorporation in PrPro and export via X.264.

               

              Any thoughts?

               

              Thanks!

               

              Matt

               

               

              Screen shot 2013-03-07 at 12.42.56 PM.png

              • 4. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                You are not looking deep enough. These are the Output Module preset options. Please read the Help files on rendering. All of the info is there. You have to edit the Output Module by double clicking the preset and then choosing Format as Quick Time and then click Format Options to bring up the available formats.

                 

                Screen Shot 2013-03-07 at 1.03.21 PM.png

                A better option would be to go to Edit>Templates>Output Module and then edit or create some new templates. That way you could have PNG with alpha in your options.

                • 5. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                  Matt Dubuque Level 1

                  Thanks Rick!

                   

                  I guess I'm kind of hung up on the term "lossless" as well here.

                   

                  The Help files did not seem to explain why anyone who is interested in the highest quality only (not time to render) would ever choose anything other than rendering in a lossless format.  I'm still stuck on that, but I appreciate you taking the time to help guide the way in finding PNG.

                  • 6. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                    Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                    To expand on what Rick said:

                     

                    You are just looking at a list of output module presets. That is not where you make specific settings for output.

                     

                    Watch this video:

                    http://www.video2brain.com/en/lessons/faq-whats-the-best-format-for-ex porting-from-after-effects

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                      BenjaminMarkus Level 4

                      A Quicktime PNG is also Lossless.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                        Matt Dubuque Level 1

                        Thanks Todd, that was a helpful 2-minute video.

                         

                        For some reason I find it much easier to learn by video and books than by navigating through extensive help screens online.

                         

                        Perhaps it is because books have both an index and a table of contents that I can use as differential guides to the underlying text which they each reference, but the online help screens don't have that dual track architecture to help me navigate through that very large data set.  They only contain chapter headings.

                         

                        And with video courses I can similarly scan the table of contents and drill down to the corresponding video and back up again to the TOC if that doesn't work, and repeat that two track searching process until I find what I want.

                         

                        Finding help in After Effects or any other very large program is essentially a task of navigating through enormous data sets and the two track searching architecture possessed by both books and video courses helps me navigate through them much more efficiently than through extensive help screens merely described by a single table of contents.

                         

                        It's a shortcoming of mine that I recognize and try to improve upon, but I do find it challenging and appreciate the video link.

                         

                        Looks like you did a bang-up job on those video FAQs!   Matt

                        • 9. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                          Matt Dubuque Level 1

                          Ben, if I go that Quicktime PNG route is it true that I am likely to get much better results if I purchase that premium version of QT, rather than using the freebie?   matt

                          • 10. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                            > if I go that Quicktime PNG route is it true that I am likely to get much better results if I purchase that premium version of QT, rather than using the freebie?

                             

                            No.

                             

                            QuickTime Pro is useful, but not because it somehow increases the quality of the videos.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                              dang.10 Level 1

                              Thank you Rick for your answer. I have been trying some of the suggestions given here (including the video provided by Todd) but some don't seem to work too well for me, but I am trying all of them to make sure, currently i am rendering my file in Quicktime with the Format set to "PNG" and it gave me a 19 Hr 25 Min Render time, which is fine with me since it'll help me to finally help me find the Render Settings which would best work for this type of workflow.

                               

                              I probably should've mentioned that my desired file size at the end of rendering is around 3-6 gb approx. But i had another question. Should i stop doing this in AE and just do it in Premiere Pro? Because since it is still from Adobe, I should be able to take the Lower thirds I design in Photoshop and get the same look when animating as I can when I use AE?

                              • 12. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                                Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                You are going about this the wrong way for production. 3-6 GB should not be your target until you get to delivery. With lossless rendering you get what you get and there's not much you can do about it.

                                • 13. Re: How to improve my workflow and performance when rendering?
                                  dang.10 Level 1

                                  I understand, but i did what you recommended above and it didn't seem to work. I have two desktops, on one i rendered one video as follows...
                                  Computer 1
                                  Avi (lossless) Render Time - 4 hr 23 min File Size - 652 GB

                                   

                                  Computer 2

                                  Quicktime (Format: Png) Render Time 19 hr 25 min File Size - 118 GB

                                   

                                  With computer one I pretty much left the same settings which were default which you had mentioned default. So I left it as it was and I rendered it. After checking the final result of the file (from computer 1) it was horrible. It didnt eve play in real time, it was super slow (like slow motion) and i couldnt even hear anything either. For that kind of size i expected the video to be super HD and perfect atleast but not even!
                                  On computer 2 i did Quicktime and put everything exactly how you showed within the photograph you provided. I chose quicktime with the Format as Png and sure the time to render took forever but i am very patient. After opening the video file, no image displayed at all. It was just audionothing else. I was disappointed actually and now growing frustrated. So again I ask, should i be doing this in Premiere Pro?

                                   

                                  P.S.
                                  If i transport png files to Sony Vegas (for example or any other similar software) would i get the ability to pinpoint and control its in/out points as easily as in AE?