16 Replies Latest reply on Mar 16, 2013 2:15 AM by President Beeblebrox

    PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?

    President Beeblebrox

      Hey guys,

       

      I was generally quite happy with the render speed of my machine. We have 20 hours of footage for MPEG-DVD production and rendering was no big issue.

      Until we started using AE overlays and fancy PIP animations... 3 minutes of encore rendering turned into 3 hours.

       

      My machine:
      My machine is an i7-3770k OC at 4,5GHz, 16GB of RAM
      Board is an ASUS-P8Z77-V

      I got a 256GB SSD as a no-raid OS disk C:

      and a RAID 10 4x 2TB, resulting in 4TB drive D: for pretty much everything else (Controller on board)

      nVidia GForce 660, Mercury support hacked into the config file

       

      So, naturally, I spent the day on the interwebs (and much of the time in this forum), overclocked my PC, and... found PPBM5.

       

      My PPBM5 results were somewhat disheartening, I guess:

      MPE: 128,136,78,7
      No MPE: 57

       

      I think the processor is not the issue.
      I understand that having seperate physical disks for Scratch/Projects and the like would be helpful.

      I also understand that more memory is always a good thing.

       

      My main concern right now is the AE render time. We use some fly-in compositions, one with a PIP-Video (all footage DV, EOS5DMIII)

      Right now we primarily render MPEG-DVD, but we will go to H.264 1920x1080 25p soon.

       

      Here my questions:

       

      What would your recommendations be as to how to increase my system's overall performance.

      - How much benefit could I expect from 32 gigs instead of 16GB?

      - How about a separate raid controller with another raid 10 array? Would separating the Premiere drives (as recommended on other threads) yield some increases in performance?

       

      Are there any other recommendations (such as other hardware accelleration, graphics card, ...) you could give me?

       

      Thanks for your anticipated support!

       

      Mike
      aka Zaphod Beeblebrox

        • 1. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          I agree your results are somewhat disappointing for such a system, but then I guess you have not 'tuned' your system. I don't have the link ready at the current system, but there is either in the FAQ section an article about 'Guide to install and tune a Vista..' or do a search for that. It still applies to Win7 as well and for Win8 you can have a look at http://ppbm7.com/index.php/final-results?showall=&start=3

           

          The first steps are always: Turn off indexing and compression on all disks, uninstall the Sidebar, MSN and similar crap, disable services not needed, kill processes that steal CPU cycles and memory, etc.

          • 2. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
            President Beeblebrox Level 1

            Hey Harm,

             

            thank you so much for your answer - and the many, many other valuable information you posted what seems to be everywhere ^^
            I am already in the process of turning off indexing, compression was off anyways.

             

            Unfortunately, this system is used for all kinds of stuff, not just editing/rendering. I don't know much about user profiles, but do you think one can set up a 'minimal' user profile that only loads the necessary services?ll

             

            I will check out your link now and tune the night away

             

            Greetings from Berlin,

             

            Michael

            • 3. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Mache es nur nicht zu spät. Morgen ist wieder ein Tag.

              • 4. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                President Beeblebrox Level 1

                Haha! Ausgezeichnet! Tomorrow my computer needs to render QUICKLY

                 

                I just ran a passmark and was flabberghasted at the 1 star DISK rating... RAID 10 giving me 1 star... Something seems wrong here, that could be a severe bottleneck...

                 

                PassMark Rating

                 

                But some of the tuning so far definitely sped up my applications noticeably. 

                 

                Thanks again, I will continue my quest now

                • 5. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Slightly different from my system I guess,

                   

                  PassMark Rating

                   

                  Raid10 does nothing to improve system performance over a two disk raid0, but it buys you security.

                   

                  Von der Weser bis zur Elbe, von dem Harz bis an das Meer,

                  stehen Niedersachsens Söhne, eine feste Burg und Wehr.

                  Fest wie unsere Eichen halten alle Zeit wir stand,

                  wenn Stürme brausen übers Deutsche Vaterland.

                  Wir sind die Niedersachsen, sturmfest und erdverwachsen,

                  Heil Herzog Widukind Stamm.


                  • 6. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                    President Beeblebrox Level 1

                    Heheh... yeah, I saw that

                     

                    With a Raid 10 (I know its no faster than a raid 0), I would not have expected this:

                     

                     

                    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qZScc8PvMhk/UUJe4BGe2xI/AAAAAAAAo5k/KwPbjQwqyfk/s800/CrystalDiskMark%2520Fail.jpg

                    I have no 'feel' for disk speeds. Does this look 'normal' to you? For some reason I feel reminded of my 286 times with a Dataphone 21s 300 baud modem

                    • 7. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      This looks very bad. Even a single disk should be way faster than that. Look at these results (you have to scroll down a bit):

                      http://ppbm7.com/index.php/final-results?showall=&start=2

                       

                      What disks do you have installed, is the raid10 in software mode or on the mobo, using the on-board controller? Of course the fill rate on your D: drive does not help at all. It can slow down your disk transfers by more than 60% at that fill rate. Can you clean up a bit and defrag?

                      • 8. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                        President Beeblebrox Level 1

                        The raid 10 is from the Mobo. Strangely, I just noticed the severe drop in speed a few days ago, I used to get much higher rates...

                         

                        These are 4x 2TB WD greens.

                         

                        I remember they used to get like 400-500 MB/s...

                         

                        Well, I guess, we found one of the problems

                         

                        I will put on my investigating feet now.

                         

                        ^^

                        • 9. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          >WD greens

                           

                          Not good for video editing... good only for static backups

                          • 10. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                            President Beeblebrox Level 1

                            Yeah, I begin to figure as much

                             

                            Still leaves me puzzled why my read/write rate went down 90% 'over night'...

                             

                            Since I am running out of disk space as it is, I guess I will get another raid controller and a 4 disk array, maybe another 4x 2TB, just faster disks this time

                             

                            I run data backups to a dedicated Backup server frequently, do you think 'just' going 2x raid 0 instead of 1x raid 10 would be a reasonable idea?

                            • 11. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              Even with 4 x 2 TB WD Caviar Blacks (not Green) in raid10 you would probably not have achieved anything more than 280 MB/s when almost empty and defragged, and when filled to 80% plus you can not expect more than around 170 MB/s maximum. For a figure of 400+ MB/s you would need a 5 disk raid5 array or better on a dedicated controller, which is not feasible on your mobo, unless you accept a 10 - 15% performance penalty on your video card.

                              • 12. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                My guess on your decrease in disk performance is that you have a bad disk drive.  I always suggest that you should test each disk drive individually before creating a RAID array  Can you back up your data and break the array and test each drive.  I would strongly suggest buying HD Tune Pro so that you can test read and write speeds.  I would guess that one of those drives has terrible write performance--I have seen this with cheap drives and on occasion even with high-end drives

                                 

                                P.S. Here is my single 2 TB Seagate 7200.14 ST2000DM001 disk benchmark

                                CrystalDiskMark2TBjpg.jpg

                                 

                                Message was edited by: Bill Gehrke

                                • 13. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                                  I understand that having seperate physical disks for Scratch/Projects and the like would be helpful.

                                   

                                  So...break out the RAID.

                                   

                                  I recommend you start with this...

                                   

                                  C: System

                                  D: Projects

                                  E: Scratch

                                  F: Media

                                  G: Export

                                   

                                  ...and only once you have that, consider making one or more of those single drives a RAID.

                                  • 14. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                                    President Beeblebrox Level 1

                                    Hey guys,

                                     

                                    Thanks for your answers and recommendations! They are very much appreciated.

                                     

                                    Something really must habe been wrong with my quickly deteriorating setup as this morning, when I wanted to look at my rendered sequences, my RAID array has basically vanished in a puff of logic. After trying to fix it and restore the data for around 10 hours (with the help of some professionals), I decided to build the system from scratch and use a 2-day old backup. A day lost, but a new chance to build the system - according to your recommendations. 

                                     

                                    In the process - and to dry my tears - I added a 512GB SSD and 32GB instead of 16GB to the system. Woopies!

                                     

                                    My windows is now 'clean' - I have renounced all RAID until such time that I can afford a 'real' RAID controller.

                                     

                                    C: -> \system drive (256GB SSD ) 500+MB/s
                                    D: -> \user profiles, program files, temp (1,8TB WD (still the green, around 150 MB/s))

                                    E: -> proposed project disk WD green
                                    F: -> proposed media disk WD green
                                    G: -> proposed export disk WD green

                                     

                                    But what! There's more!

                                     

                                    I do have this juicy 512GB SSD with 550 MB/sec now! Its empty and craves data! It will be drive J: as in JUICY.

                                     

                                    As mentioned above, I have very large projects for MPEG-2 DVD production, using around 1,5 TB EOS 5D 1920x1080 25p media and some 'fancy' (?) PIP-overlays and effects realized in Adobe After Effects.

                                    I _COULD_ commit to creating one RAID0 out of two of the WD's, although I don't trust RAID farther than I can throw it now...

                                     

                                    Given this setup and these projects:
                                    - What should I use my 512GB SSD for?
                                    - Should I create a RAID0 and if so, what should I use that for?

                                     

                                    Is media pumping into the CPU/Memory more important than Export or vice versas? (I know I am generalizing quite a bit here).

                                     

                                    Given the large Media-Files I am thinking RAID0 2TB for Media and 512GB for Export.

                                     

                                    What do you think?

                                     

                                    After 42 hours of no sleep I will dream of your answers that hopefully await me in the cold Berlin morning

                                     

                                    Regards,

                                     

                                    Michael

                                    • 15. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                                      Jim_Simon Level 8


                                      - What should I use my 512GB SSD for?

                                       

                                      Scratch.  (Media cache files)

                                      • 16. Re: PPBM5 verdict: My setup sucks - what now?
                                        President Beeblebrox Level 1

                                        Thank you Jim

                                         

                                        You got it

                                         

                                        I also got the HD Tune Pro and - more important than ever - ACRONIS Data Backup. Setting up the new machine right now - looking forward to my first PPBM5 test

                                         

                                        Again, thank you all for your input!

                                         

                                        Michael