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1. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 24, 2013 5:48 AM (in response to David Gardner)That is not normal behavior. What is your source material? Are you sure there are no gaps or other oddities in PR or EN?
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2. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 24, 2013 8:03 AM (in response to Stan Jones)My source video consists of SD AVI clips from a film transfer. I don't sense that they're an issue. I have now observed this behaviour with 4 different projects including a 10-second test sequence I have built to more quickly try different things. My 10-second test sequence consists of 10 1-second clips with chapter markers at the beginning of each clip. Sure enough when I send the sequence from PR to EN via the dynamic link and build a menu all appears to be fine including verifying the project with the preview function in EN. I then build to a folder for DVD and near the end of the build I can even see EN change some the chapter marker locations as some of my menu thumbnail pictures even change to accommodate the re-positioned markers. The markers always move backward in time which make the problem obvious because the thumbnails are showing the wrong scene entirely (and yes I verify that the markers have actually re-positioned by examining the timeline in EN). This behaviour is consistent and repeatable from whatever I'm doing. Again, I found the workaround that works is to export the sequence from PR and then import the video to EN. The chapters remain in place. Exporting from PR ties it up though while the video is building. That is (or would be) one big advantage of sending to EN via the dynamic link which I would like to use if it worked properly for me.
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3. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 24, 2013 3:08 PM (in response to David Gardner)Just did a quick test. 3 clips; marker at beginning of each clip. Total PR sequence 32:19 (32 seconds). No menu (try that to save even more time - that should not matter). Markers do not move.
My source video consists of SD AVI clips from a film transfer.
The film transfer leaves open the question of what codec etc is in the avi. What is it? I assume 29.97fps.
My 10-second test sequence consists of 10 1-second clips with chapter markers at the beginning of each clip.
That's a bit of an odd test, since the minimum distance between markers is 15 frames for NTSC - they can't move much!
You appear to be transcoding during the build. Use transcode now, to make sure that it is the trancode that is creating the problem.
The markers always move backward in time
I wonder more about a dropped marker. Are you sure there are the correct number of total markers? What is the new marker time position?
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4. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 24, 2013 4:08 PM (in response to Stan Jones)Good questions.
Yes my source clips codec is motion jpeg at 29.97fps.
If I just focus on the second chapter marker in my test sequence (given the automatic first chapter marker is at 0 sec.) it is at 1:01 in the timeline which is off the GOP boundary of 15 frames. When I build the timeline this marker moves 1 frame back to 1 sec., a GOP boundary. Doesn't sound like a big deal but that puts the marker into the previous clip on my time line which causes the automatic thumbnail in my menu to be wrong and there's a little flicker when you jump to this chapter on DVD playback as it plays this one odd frame.
I guess I am transcoding during the build (am I not supposed to?) but I have since tried your idea of trying "transcode now" before the build. It sounded promising. While looking at my second chapter marker in the timeline I clicked transcode now and watched the marker jump back 1 frame. Cool, but I'd rather it didn't do that.
You are right I don't need a menu to examine this. It's just that the thumbnails changing in my menu after a build were the firts indication to me that something was going wrong. Again if I import a file that's already transcoded to En this isn't an issue.
It just looks like En doesn't respect chapter marker locations through the dynamic link to Pr and it should. It rather transcodes first and then adds in the chapter markers as close as it can to their original locations. It's possible I am missing something in my workflow but it at least sounds like you understand what I am experiencing.
Can you try modifying your test by creating a couple of 1-sec clips in Pr sequence with a chapter marker between them (so your first one is at 1:01) and then see if the same thing happens to your first chapter marker?
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5. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 24, 2013 5:23 PM (in response to Stan Jones)In an effort to eliminate some variables I tried another test. I created a sequence in Pr using only titles. I created 4 titles each 1:01 long and each having a sequential text number. I placed them in a sequence (all working in DV NTSC) next to each other and put an encore chapter marker between each one. There is therefore a chapter marker at 1:01, 2:02, and 3:03. I click dynamic link to En, and create a timeline there with this sequence. Upon inspection of the timeline in En, the chapter markers are all in place. I click transcode now and all the chapter markers move now appearing at 1:00, 2:00 and 3:00 respectively. I don't think En should do this.
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6. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 24, 2013 7:09 PM (in response to David Gardner)I did the test; markers do not change upon transcode.
What are your Encore transcode settings?
I wonder about the mjpeg avi's. Take another peak at mjpeg properties in Premiere, and the sequence settings. But I don't see how that would create this anyway. When I change frame rates, etc, Encore still transcodes to the same placement as PR.
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7. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 24, 2013 7:57 PM (in response to Stan Jones)I eliminated my source footage a variable by using generated title clips in my Pr sequence. Similar result in En as per my supplementary last response.
So you're saying you do a dynamic link from a sequence in Pr to En with a chapter marker at 1:01 and after a transcode the marker stays at 1:01?
... and you're using CS6?
My transcode was set to automatic, but I tried a couple of the presets like DV HQ 7Mb VBR 2-pass. I made sure the framerate was 29.97.
What setting could I possibly have to produce the result I'm getting?
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8. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 6:02 AM (in response to David Gardner)So you're saying you do a dynamic link from a sequence in Pr to En with a chapter marker at 1:01 and after a transcode the marker stays at 1:01?
... and you're using CS6?
Yes. I don't really understand using the 1:01 (I used 1:00 also), but in either case, I get no change after transcode.
I was also using an automatic transcode. It shouldn't matter - transcode for DVD has to go to DVD legal output.
I can't imagine what produces this result.
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9. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 25, 2013 6:35 AM (in response to Stan Jones)I was using the 1:01 chapter marker position because a marker that is at 1:00 is already on a COP boundary when the GOP length is 15 frames so it wouldn't have to move to get onto an appropriate GOP frame which to me is what it looks like Encore is doing to me when my marker is at say 1:01. What I am seeing looks like En is encoding my sequence to mpeg2 and then plugging in my chapter makers to the closest possible frames. You can even try this on a sequence that is already encoded. Try adding a chapter marker to a timeline (in En) at time 1:01 or 1:02 or 1:03 and it won't go there. It will jump to a 15-frame boundary. En should be creating I-frames at my chapter points when it transcodes so the chapter markers can be in the correct position in the video. It doesn't seem to do that for me but you're saying it does transcode such chapter markers correctly for you is that right?
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10. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 25, 2013 7:07 AM (in response to Stan Jones)Just as another note, afte I transcode a sequence in En where it moves my chapter markers, I have to click on the respective En timeline for it to refresh before I see the new (wrong) chapter marker positions.
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11. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 7:33 AM (in response to David Gardner)I have to click on the respective En timeline for it to refresh before I see the new (wrong) chapter marker positions.
I went back and this did not result in any change for me.
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12. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 7:37 AM (in response to David Gardner)it wouldn't have to move to get onto an appropriate GOP frame which to me is what it looks like Encore is doing to me when my marker is at say 1:01.
Encore (or Premiere for that matter) starts a new gop at a marker. So it should not matter, as long as you are dealing with non-gop material to begin with. That is what is very odd about this: export from Premiere, markers stay in place. Transcode in Encore, they do not. Either one, should do what Premiere is. For me, both work as they should.
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13. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 25, 2013 7:47 AM (in response to Stan Jones)I agree with you. For me Pr encodes it correctly (vis a vis chapter marker positions) and En does not even though they are both starting from a non-gop source. Since it works for you, which is a valuable clue, there must be something I have set differently. There are only so many options though so I am at a bit of a loss as to what to try. I am using a MAC Pro for my editing - not that it should matter but are you on a mac or a pc?
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14. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 8:08 AM (in response to David Gardner)PC Win7. A good question.
No audio in your tests, right?
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15. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 25, 2013 8:25 AM (in response to Stan Jones)No audio in my test footage but there was audio in the orginal footage that first showed the problem. I would have though Pr and En use the same encoding S/W so I am at a loss as to why only En does this. It's possible that En sets up the transcode operation but neglects to include the chapter information until after the transcode is done. I did try another little test where I manually insert chapter markers on a sequence in En at 1:01, 2:02 etc. and upon trarnscoding they also move to what looks like post encoding gop boundaries of 1:00, 2:00 etc. So I now have Pr and the dynamic link function out of the variables. En is doing this to me all on its own!
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16. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 9:28 AM (in response to David Gardner)It's possible that En sets up the transcode operation but neglects to include the chapter information until after the transcode is done.
No, that would defeat the point of using Encore to transcode with chapters. Encore transcodes so that gops fall on markers. If not, LOTS of users would be having the problem you describe.
I am at a loss. Can you post a screenshot of the Encore timeline, pre and post-transcode you just described?
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19. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 12:14 PM (in response to David Gardner)I keep hoping I'm going to feel real stupid any minute when something simple pops up, but I don't see it...
What are the Encore default transcode settings for this project?
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21. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 25, 2013 12:52 PM (in response to David Gardner)Okay. Still nothing...
Anyone on a Mac who can do David's test ?
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22. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 26, 2013 1:05 PM (in response to Stan Jones)In addition to my Mac pro I also have a Macbook pro with the Adobe suite on it and in a quick test I observe the exact same behaviour with shifting chapter markers. Arguably I probably follow a similar workflow with similar settings no matter what computer I am using but here is a completely different piece of hardware with none of the same media on it that has En doing does the same (wrong) thing.
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23. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 26, 2013 2:47 PM (in response to David Gardner)OK. Now try it on your PC.
And no, I don't have a Mac to try it on!
V ery odd.
I would try resetting Encore preferences. Restart system. New Encore project. Try again.
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24. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 27, 2013 8:23 AM (in response to Stan Jones)I have an associate I contacted who is running CS6 on a mac. He even has a more recent O/S than me (Mountain Lion vesus Snow Leopard - y'know mac-speak) and I called him to do this chapter marker test. Live on the phone I asked him to import a DV sequence into En and place a chapter marker at 1:01 and then click transcode now. Bingo - his chapter marker moved to 1:00. En shouldn't do this. I am beginning to think there is a genuine issue with En transcoding that is unrelated to any possible setup parameters. As you pointed out this behaviour is a big no-no for anyone who cares to still author DVDs. I don't have a suitable PC to try this on and my licenses are used up on my macs anyway. If you are absolutely certain your version of En isn't exhibiting this phenomenon is there a path to raise this issue higher?
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25. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
Stan Jones Mar 27, 2013 8:32 AM (in response to David Gardner)Bug report (and feature request) form.
That is the only way to put the issue into that pipeline, and you rarely hear anything back. I have been asked on a couple occassions to clarify something on a bug report. Put a link to this thread.
You can also contact technical support.
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26. Re: Chapter Markers shift after build in Encore when using PP dynamic lnk
David Gardner Mar 27, 2013 8:53 AM (in response to Stan Jones)Will do.





