1 2 Previous Next 62 Replies Latest reply on Aug 11, 2017 1:19 PM by thedigitaldog

    Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop

    Nrbelex Level 1

      Hi - I've had a color management issue I can't wrap my head around which is similar to this infamous thread: http://forums.adobe.com/message/3235601#3235601

       

      I'm hoping with a little more information provided I can get this figured out. The basic problem is that Bridge displays images markedly differently than either ACR or Photoshop. The most common issue is as follows:

       

      With the external monitor as the primary display (and the laptop monitor as a secondary), I start Bridge. Photos will seem to be in the correct gamut for a moment, but it almost immediately desaturates them as if switching gamuts. Opening the image in ACR or Photoshop shows the correct color. See the below:

       

      Bridge-ACR.JPG

      (Note: on my wide-gamut monitor, there's no clipping on the ACR version - that's how it should look)

       

      There are various permuations to this problem depending on which monitor I have on when I start Bridge, but the above is my general workflow.

       

      Some background:

       

      Lenovo ThinkPad T430s w/ integrated Intel HD4000 graphics

      ASUS ProArt Series PA246Q (Wide Gamut)

      Photoshop CS6 (using 16-bit ProPhotoRGB as the standard workspace)

      Datacolor Spyder4 calibrating both monitors

       

      My settings:

       

      Spyder.JPGColor Management Devices External.JPGColor Management Devices Internal.JPGColor Management Advanced.JPGPhotoshop Color.JPGPhotoshop Color 2.jpgIntel.JPGIntel 2.JPGIntel 3.JPG

       

      I know there are a bunch of variables, but does anybody see any glaring issues which might explain my problem?

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
          gator soup Level 4

          The basic problem is that Bridge displays images markedly differently than either ACR or Photoshop.

           

          those are all three color-managed application that each transform/convert colors to the monitor profile -- so if they are displaying differently -- i would first verify which source profile each app is using, and second, which monitor profile each app is displaying through on each monitor

           

          external monitor as the primary display (and the laptop monitor as a secondary)

           

          that's probably the debacle as you suspect, success is dependent on any number of factors including OS, video driver and app bugs/behavior

           

          including hardware design limitations...

          • 2. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
            Nrbelex Level 1

            gator soup wrote:

             

            those are all three color-managed application that each transform/convert colors to the monitor profile -- so if they are displaying differently --

             

            Thanks for the reply. They are definitely displaying differently - to make the point more obvious, here's a TIFF in Bridge and Photoshop:

             

            Colors TIFF.JPG

             

             

            gator soup wrote:

             

            i would first verify which source profile each app is using, and second, which monitor profile each app is displaying through on each monitor

             

            Here's where I'm a little lost. As you can see, the Spyder software appears to have correctly piped the profile into the Windows; wide-gamut images appear correct in color-managed programs [since IE10 appears to be at leat partially color-managed, I don't think I have any non-color-managed programs on this windows 7 machine to test against].

             

            I know Photoshop is using the correct profile - see the screenshots above. I don't know how to change the profile Bridge andACR are using, and I was told they should adopt whatever profile Photoshop is using. Let me know if that's wrong and how I can remedy it.

             

            Thanks!

            • 3. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
              gator soup Level 4

              to make the point more obvious, here's a TIFF in Bridge and Photoshop:

               

              try downloading a copy of the tagged WhackedRGB PDI reference image and open it in Br & Ps (use the embedded profile, do not convert colors)

               

              set Br and Ps side-by-side and take one screenshot of the two windows (embed the profile) keep your zoom ratios the same 25% 50%...

               

              Be sure to show the entire Ps window including the top bar with the name and the Document Profile showing in the low/left corner

               

              do this on each monitor

               

              post your results...

              • 4. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                gator soup Level 4

                here is how to verify what monitor profile Photoshop is using:

                 

                Monitor_Profile.jpg

                 

                there is a problem with some setups running two monitors off one video card (even off two separate cards) that Ps only uses the default monitor profile for both displays (that is likely what's going on, unless you have a source profile or softproof issues)...

                • 5. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                  Nrbelex Level 1

                  gator soup,

                   

                  See the below screenshot - I see a slight difference (see the woman's face), but not very pronounced, and perhaps attributable to my inability to get them to be the exact same size... hmmm...

                   

                  WhackedRGB Bridge v Photoshop.JPG

                   

                  Here it is again with the ProPhoto profile embedded:

                   

                  WhackedRGB Bridge v Photoshop - ProPhotoEmbedded.JPG

                   

                  I posted my Photoshop profile settings above - here it is again:

                   

                  Photoshop Color 2.jpg

                   

                  Much obliged!

                  • 6. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                    gator soup Level 4

                    i don't see any difference in the two apps BUT YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE A PROFILE IN YOUR SCREENSHOT

                     

                    you are applying the Whacked profile in Ps and are not in proof colors mode

                     

                    it looks like Br and Ps are displaying consistent on that monitor?

                     

                    try setting your Ps Color Management Policies to:

                     

                    Color_Management_Policies.jpg

                     

                    that may help trap at least one of the problems...

                    • 7. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                      gator soup Level 4

                      your second screenshot just added (with profile embedded post #5) you have profile issues going on that you need to resolve...

                       

                      your over-saturated screenshot has ProphotoRGB Profile Embedded, it looks like you used Assigned Profile —— wrong move —— most screenshots should have Monitor RGB embedded (that's what you should upload so we can see what you see)

                       

                      as a whole not seeing a difference on the monitor...

                       

                      it is hard to tell because i don't know the correct profile to use (you stripped it, and Assigned the wrong, it looks like)...

                      • 8. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                        Nrbelex Level 1

                        Realized that and put it in the second one - see edit above.

                         

                        But yes, as a whole not seeing a difference on the monitor...

                        • 9. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                          Nrbelex Level 1

                          Sorry about that - makes sense that a screenshot should have monitor profile.

                           

                          Here's the whacked example:

                           

                          WhackedRGB Bridge v Photoshop - Monitor Profile Embedded.jpg

                           

                          Here's a CR2 example:

                           

                          Bridge v Photoshop.JPG

                          • 10. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                            gator soup Level 4

                            try doing the whacked example on the second monitor (I don't see any problem in your Whacked Example post #9) -- the CR2 example is hard for me to evaluate without getting eyestrain

                             

                            you should be using the profile embedded during the capture (not having to Assign it)

                             

                            on a Mac, a screen capture can deposit the file on the desktop (with the embedded monitor profile that can be a clue) not pasting it in Ps

                            • 11. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                              gator soup Level 4

                              i have to step out, but

                               

                              be sure your Source documents have the proper embedded profile

                               

                              and that you "Use" that profile in Photoshop

                               

                              any display discrepencies after that are likely tied to any number of factors including OS, video driver and app bugs/behavior

                               

                              including hardware design limitations...

                              • 12. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                Nrbelex Level 1

                                No problem, thanks for the help! On my PC, screen capture using the Prnt Scrn button must be pasted into a program or taken/saved using the snipping tool. Either way the result appears to be untagged.

                                 

                                Here are a few more examples if you get a chance to look in the future. I'm making sure the proper profiles are embedded correctly (you can confirm in both Photoshop [lower left] and Bridge [upper right]):

                                 

                                Primary, wide-gamut monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing PSD w/ embedded ProPhoto RGB:

                                 

                                Bridge v Photoshop PSD2.jpg

                                 

                                Secondary, laptop monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing PSD w/ embedded ProPhoto RGB:

                                 

                                Bridge v Photoshop PSD2 Laptop Monitor.jpg

                                 

                                Primary, wide-gamut monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing WhackedRGB Sample w/ embedded profile:

                                 

                                WhackedRGB Bridge v Photoshop - Monitor Profile Embedded.jpg

                                Secondary, laptop monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing WhackedRGB Sample w/ embedded profile:

                                 

                                WhackedRGB Bridge v Photoshop Lenovo Monitor.jpg

                                 

                                Primary, wide-gamut monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing Sample Lowrez ProPhotoRGB w/ embedded profile:

                                 

                                Bridge v Photoshop ProPhotoRGB Sample.jpg

                                 

                                Secondary, laptop monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing Sample Lowrez ProPhotoRGB w/ embedded profile:

                                 

                                Bridge v Photoshop ProPhotoRGB Sample Lenovo.jpg

                                 

                                So the WhackedRGB sample looks ok and the ProPhotoRGB samples look ok here, but it doesn't look like the WhackedRGB or ProPhoto samples have anything outside the sRGB range.

                                 

                                Note what happens when I edit the WhackedRGB and ProPhoto samples simply by adding colors on the extremes of the gamut...

                                 

                                Primary, wide-gamut monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing WhackedRGB Sample w/ embedded profile EDITED with gamut extremes:

                                 

                                Bridge v Photoshop WhackedRGB Sample EDIT.jpg

                                 

                                Primary, wide-gamut monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing Sample Lowrez ProPhotoRGB w/ embedded profile EDITED with gamut extremes:

                                 

                                Bridge v Photoshop ProPhotoRGB Sample EDIT.jpg

                                 

                                The issue is back - the colors are very different! At this point, it's probably a bug, right...?

                                 

                                Thanks again!

                                • 13. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                  Nrbelex Level 1

                                  P.S. - As a control, here's an edited version of their tagged sRGB. As expected, even with colors at the extremes, I can't see a difference. So is it possible Bridge is only generating sRGB previews/thumbnails?

                                   

                                  Primary, wide-gamut monitor (sample includes embedded profile) - Viewing Sample Lowrez sRGB w/ embedded profile EDITED with gamut extremes:

                                   

                                  Bridge v Photoshop sRGB Sample EDIT.jpg

                                   

                                  Here are the edited samples for reference:

                                   

                                  ProPhotoRGB_Tagged_Edit.jpg

                                   

                                  TaggedsRGB EDIT.jpg

                                   

                                  PDI_Target_WhackedRGB EDIT Shrunk.jpg

                                  • 14. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                    gator soup Level 4

                                    it doesn't look like the WhackedRGB or ProPhoto samples have anything outside the sRGB range.

                                     

                                    not sure i follow, try opening the tagged Whacked & ProPhoto targets, then Edit> Assign Profile: sRGB

                                     

                                    The issue is back - the colors are very different!

                                     

                                    not sure i follow, i sampled your color spots (in your last screenshot post #12) and yes they have changes i would NOT expect, yet the PDI image remains close if not equal

                                     

                                    let me do a simple test here...

                                    • 15. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                      Nrbelex Level 1

                                      Assigning the WhackedRGB sample to sRGB makes it blue, as expected. However converting the WhackedRGB sample to sRGB does not result in any color changes (to my eyes), which would seem to mean that every color used in the sample is already within the sRGB gamut.

                                       

                                      See the below:

                                       

                                      WhackedRGB converted to sRGB

                                      PDI_Target_WhackedRGB CONVERTED to sRGB.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                        gator soup Level 4

                                        i filled the box in Photoshop as noted (Br right, Ps left) using sRGB as my Source profile

                                         

                                        i saved the .tif and opened in Br and Ps, then took this screenshot

                                         

                                        Test_.jpg

                                         

                                        i opened my screenshot and Converted MonitorRGB to sRGB, Saved and uploaded it with sRGB profile embedded

                                         

                                        while i had a hair of wobble in both Hex values -- my Bridge is a virtual "match" to Photoshop display

                                         

                                        you are getting into color science, maybe one of the geniuses can take to to the next step and teach us both something...

                                        • 17. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                          gator soup Level 4

                                          converting the WhackedRGB sample to sRGB does not result in any color changes (to my eyes), which would seem to mean that every color used in the sample is already within the sRGB gamut.

                                           

                                          that's a real tough statement for me to understand -- all of the PDI targets on my site were Converted to the packaged spaces from the original Photodisc freeware target (AdobeRGB)

                                           

                                          obviously, visually, moving extreme colors from theoretical ultra-wide-gamut spaces like ProPhotoRGB to much smaller color gamuts like Monitor RGB and sRGB and Print spaces is a challenge for the math and technology to maintain visual appearance between devices

                                           

                                          one can always argue that a monitor (or any device) is not even capable of "proofing" the full theoretical color gamut of ProPhotoRGB, but it a useful tool no less...

                                          • 18. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                            Nrbelex Level 1

                                            With your example I wouldn't expect a color shift. It's only when using a wider gamut than sRGB where trouble crops up. I guess my real questions is:

                                             

                                            Does Bridge on your system show previews with colors outside the sRGB gamut for images in wider gamuts (specifically ProPhotoRGB and WhackedRGB)? i.e. Do all of the following look the same to you in Bridge? What does it look like when you place the following images side-by-side in Bridge and PS?

                                             

                                            ProPhotoRGB:

                                             

                                            ProPhotoRGB Gamut Extremes.jpg

                                             

                                            WhackedRGB:

                                             

                                            WhackedRGB Gamut Extremes.jpg

                                             

                                            sRGB:

                                             

                                            sRGB Gamut Extremes.jpg

                                             

                                            If the answer is that they look different to you in Bridge, then there's a bug or hardware limitation on my end. If they look the same to you in Bridge, then Bridge simply does not generate anything but sRGB previews, which would be very unfortunate. I suspect the former.

                                             

                                            For me, all three images look the same in Bridge, but different in Photoshop.

                                             

                                            Also, I think you meant to say Bridge is on left, Ps is on right, correct?

                                             

                                            Thanks for jumping through these hoops with me!!! I know we're on the outer limits of color-management, but I'm pretty sure we're on the same page, and I'm just experiencing a difficult to articulate bug.

                                            • 19. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                              gator soup Level 4

                                               

                                              Does Bridge on your system show previews with colors outside the sRGB gamut for images in wider gamuts (specifically ProPhotoRGB

                                               

                                               

                                              Bridge most certainly displays its previews like Photoshop (tagged Source colors are faithfully converted to MonitorRGB, Source>MonitorRGB) how else could both apps display tagged ppRGB and wRGB the same

                                               

                                              from your screenshots, it appears your Br and Ps are displaying the tagged PDI consistantly as expected

                                               

                                              at that point you should be able to run your own color patch tests and draw your own conclusions

                                               

                                              a color scientist may be able to clear this up better than me...

                                               

                                              IT IS THE THEORY THAT DECIDES WHAT WE CAN OBSERVE.

                                              -Albert Einstein

                                              • 20. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                gator soup Level 4

                                                Look at the Chromaticity diagrams of ppRGB and sRGB

                                                 

                                                Chromaticity_Diagram.jpg

                                                 

                                                In another ProPhoto RGB Source> MonitorRGB example:

                                                 

                                                Think of ProPhoto RGB (Source) as a semi-trailer truck full of RGB numbers that has to be fit inside a pickup truck bed (Monitor RGB) — a lot of RGB information needs to be compressed, remapped and/or deleted in real time to perform this routine, on-the-fly, behind-the-scenes Photoshop color management magic trick (Source> Monitor).

                                                 

                                                User options to influence or control HOW the remapping of color information is calculated during a Profile conversion include two basic Rendering Intents: Perceptual & Relative Colorimetric. Perceptual is said to "compress" the color information into the smaller Space; Relative Colorimetric is said to "clip" the out-of-gamut information (and discard it).


                                                Photoshop Soft Proofing images (documents) on the monitor in various device-specific ICC Profiles can effectively demonstrate the visual effects of this remapping of color gamuts, including the dreaded out-of-gamut-color phenomenon.

                                                • 21. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                  Nrbelex Level 1

                                                  Gator soup, I understand the basics of color management. My issue is much simpler - does Bridge generate only sRGB previews of images (even when they have an embedded wider gamut), as has been suggested by others on this forum, or am I experiencing a bug?

                                                   

                                                  In short, do all three color swatches I generated look the same to you in Bridge on a wide-gamut monitor or not?

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  from your screenshots, it appears your Br and Ps are displaying the tagged PDI consistantly as expected

                                                   

                                                  I disagree here - if you look at the 7th or 8th images at post 12, you should see a major difference between the red and the green. Yes, the PDI portion of the shot is the same, but there should be no discrepency between Photoshop and Bridge, in any portion of the colors. Both images are from the same files with the same embedded profiles. That summarizes the problem.

                                                   

                                                  I frequently take pictures with colors outside the range expressed in the PDI chart (i.e. outside the sRGB gamut), so there are practical problems if the answer is that Bridge does not display these colors.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks

                                                  • 22. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                    gator soup Level 4
                                                    does Bridge generate only sRGB previews of images (even when they have a wider gamut), as has been suggested by others on this forum, or am I experiencing a bug?

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    i will guess it is safe to say any color-managed digital display is only "softproofing" a source document in monitor RGB

                                                     

                                                    and since displays are limited to sRGB or aRGB, it will have anomalies such as what you are seeing when monitor proofing extreme 'native' ProPhoto RGB colors of the types you are talking about because they have to be substantially clipped or compressed into the much smaller gamut proofing space

                                                     

                                                    there are those who frequent here with more knowledge than me, pls stay tuned...

                                                    • 23. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                      gator soup Level 4

                                                      in other words, to not exploit the color problems you are setting up using ppRGB source space, you would need a ProPhotoRGB proofing device (monitor)

                                                      • 24. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                        Nrbelex Level 1

                                                        Gator soup - I have to disagree with you there. The exact same problem exists in the commonly used RGB color space. Since my monitor displays 100% of RGB, I frequently see it in in fabrics, flowers, lights, the sun and any other source of extreme color. Essentially, you are saying there is no practical difference between sRGB and RGB since the exact same problem exists there.

                                                         

                                                        Here's a real-life example in the RGB color space:

                                                         

                                                        Example2.jpg

                                                         

                                                        As you can see, theres a difference between the sRGB preview (of the RGB tagged image) from Bridge (on the left) and the same RGB image in Photoshop (on the right). It's not enormous, but for something like clothing color, where accuracy can be crucial, it can be problematic.

                                                        • 25. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                          Nrbelex Level 1

                                                          To really emphasize it, here's a closer crop:

                                                           

                                                          Example2B.jpg

                                                           

                                                          Copy one of the two, paste it over the other, and compare the color shift.

                                                           

                                                          As I'm sure you know, the differene will be greater in the greens where sRGB and RGB really diverge.

                                                          • 26. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                            gator soup Level 4

                                                            .

                                                            not sure what you are disagreeing with, but "RGB" is a color model

                                                            ProPhotoRGB, AdobeRGB, sRGB, MonitorRGB are color spaces (and are based on ICC profiles)

                                                             

                                                            so your posts continue to be unclear to me, but

                                                             

                                                            most computer displays are either sRGB or AdobeRGB compliant devices, yes?

                                                             

                                                            that means they are limited to displaying colors within those specific color gamuts, yes?

                                                             

                                                            my ProPhotoRGB>MonitorRGB example is like "Soft Proofing" contrasty, oversaturated sRGB colors in a CMYK color space (out-of-gamut colors dull and change because they are being compressed/clipped, they don't translate well to the smaller CMYK colorspace because they don't exist there), yes?

                                                             

                                                            in ProPhotoRGB, the phenomenon is probably occurring on the monitor because some of your theoretical source colors cannot not be reproduced in the much smaller Monitor space

                                                             

                                                            i have no idea why Bridge is displaying differently than Photoshop, as you say,

                                                            your uploaded examples of the unaltered PDI images looked like a spot on match to me in Ps & Br

                                                            • 27. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                              Nrbelex Level 1

                                                              I'm skeptical that you didn't understand my reference to RGB in the context of color spaces in Adobe programs to equate to AdobeRGB, but nonetheles...

                                                               

                                                              Most wide-gamut monitors are not "either sRGB or AdobeRGB compliant devices." They are both, simultaneously as AdobeRGB encompasses sRGB. And no, they are not "limited to displaying colors within those specific color gamuts," but they are a useful comparison and are often designed with the intention of covering as much of those gamuts as possible. Decent monitors frequently go outside both gamuts, though that may not be particularly useful.

                                                               

                                                              i.e. here is a chart comparing the monitor I am using to several other photo-editing monitors:

                                                               

                                                              http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6032/47449.png

                                                               

                                                              As you can see, it exceeds AdobeRGB.

                                                               

                                                              Abandoning the ProPhoto distinction for the moment (though the argument holds), I do understand where you are coming from in regards to gamuts the monitor cannot actually display - e.g. ProPhotoRGB (though there are still advantages ot using it, which I am sure you are aware of).

                                                               

                                                              Nonetheless, there are real-world reprucussion of Bridge generating sRGB previews for AdobeRGB tagged images when the monitor is capable of displaying AdobeRGB (if that is in fact Bridge's behavior, which seems more and more clear). This should be clear from the sunset image I posted above. Do you, or do you not see the discrpency in colors between Photoshop and Bridge?

                                                               

                                                              I agree with the second half of this statement, in bold in regards to ProPhotoRGB:

                                                               

                                                              in ProPhotoRGB, the phenomenon is probably occurring on the monitor because some of your theoretical source colors cannot not be reproduced in the much smaller Monitor space

                                                               

                                                              However that does not explain why Photoshop and Bridge display the image differently. The answer is Bridge is displaying an sRGB preview (whether by design or due to a bug). I can illustrate this using AdobeRGB which I believe we will both agree my monitor (and likely yours) can display all of, accurately, therefore no clipping or "soft-proofing" issues should exist.

                                                               

                                                              Here are the extremes of AdobeRGB:

                                                               

                                                              AdobeRGB Gamut Extremes.jpg

                                                               

                                                              Here are the extremes of sRGB:

                                                               

                                                              sRGB Gamut Extremes.jpg

                                                               

                                                              Please download both images and simply compare how they are displayed in Bridge. If they look identical in Bridge but different in Photoshop (more specifically, the AdobeRGB image will instead look like the sRGB image), you should see where I am coming from. This being the case, that the PDI images look identical only means that the PDI images only contain colors in the sRGB gamut. Therefore while they may be useful for diagnosing some profile issues, they are not useful for exploring the accuracy of the outer boundaries of any gamut.

                                                               

                                                              Although not all of my images contain the AdobeRGB colors in this example, many come close, and Bridge's failure to take that into account is problematic, either because it is a bug or design flaw. Please let me know if anything I've written or assumed here does not follow.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks

                                                              • 28. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                gator soup Level 4

                                                                >>Bridge generating sRGB previews for AdobeRGB tagged images

                                                                 

                                                                maybe you're onto something, i hope you can get it figured out

                                                                • 30. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                  Nrbelex Level 1

                                                                  For anyone following this thread, just a heads-up for future reference. It's been confirmed all previews in Bridge are in fact in sRGB. It's a bit surprising, but apparently true. More details at this thread.

                                                                  1 person found this helpful
                                                                  • 31. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                    gator soup Level 4
                                                                    all previews in Bridge are in fact in sRGB

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    i probably don't understand what you mean, but if you are saying Bridge only converts tagged RGB documents to sRGB then shouldn't your previously posted wide-gamut screenshot show an obvious red oversaturation in your Bridge preview because it looks identical to Photoshop to me

                                                                     

                                                                    xWhackedRGB+Bridge+v+Photoshop+-+Monitor+Profile+Embedded.jpg

                                                                    • 32. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                      Nrbelex Level 1

                                                                      I'm saying Bridge only generates sRGB previews, no matter what color space the original image is in.

                                                                       

                                                                      So any and every image in ProPhotoRGB, WhackedRGB or AdobeRGB will appear in the smaller sRGB gamut when previewed in Bridge. Plainly put, every image viewed in Bridge will be sRGB.

                                                                       

                                                                      To prove this, go to your Bridge cache folder (e.g. In Windows 7 go to C:\Users\[YOURNAME]\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Bridge CS6 - some of these folders are going to be hidden) and you'll see that the preview images Bridge generates are sRGB, no matter what the color space of the original was. This was demonstrated by the last two edited examples in post 12 or any of the AdobeRGB examples I posted.

                                                                      • 33. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                        gator soup Level 4

                                                                        Plainly put, every image viewed in Bridge will be sRGB.

                                                                        then why does your Bridge preview not show the blatant red error associated with that statement on your wide gamut screenshot

                                                                        • 34. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                          Nrbelex Level 1

                                                                          You're talking about the screenshot you reposted in post 31, which I originally posted as the 3rd image in post 12, right?

                                                                           

                                                                          None of the colors in the original WhackedRGB sample are outside the sRGB range, so there's no reason it would look any different.

                                                                           

                                                                          If you look at the L, a, b values of the most exteme colors in the WhackedRGB sample in Photoshop, you'll see none exceed the maximum potential L a b values of sRGB, and thus they are all within the gamut, so no difference should be expected when viewed in Bridge.

                                                                          • 35. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                            Nrbelex Level 1

                                                                            To be completely clear, here's the original WhackedRGB sample with an arrow pointing to one of the most extreme reds in the image:

                                                                             

                                                                            Gamut Sample1.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            Here's the same image, converted to sRGB in Photoshop:

                                                                             

                                                                            Gamut Sample2.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            Now here are the L a b color values for the red the arrow is pointing to in the WhackedRGB image:

                                                                             

                                                                            Gamut Sample3.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            And here are the L a b color values for the sRGB converted version:

                                                                             

                                                                            Gamut Sample4.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            As you can see, the L a b values are virtually identical even after the conversion, and that specific red falls well within the sRGB gamut, so there's no reason it wouldn't be displayed when bridge generates an sRGB sample.

                                                                             

                                                                            Therefore the sample image is useless when it comes to testing the maximum range of any color gamut (including sRGB). I encourage you to test it out yourself.

                                                                            • 36. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                              Level 5

                                                                              From:  http://forums.adobe.com/message/5188406#5188406 (sorry about cross-posting on two different forums):

                                                                                

                                                                               

                                                                              That's (one of the reasons) why Bridge has no editing capabilities whatsoever.  It would be nonsensical to catastrophic if it did. 

                                                                               

                                                                              One has to keep in mind that Bridge is just an ad-hoc image file browser.  It essentially was created as nothing more and nothing less than Photoshop's file browser and it was called exactly that in its first iteration.

                                                                               

                                                                              Using the Bridge Preview panel to attempt to judge colors is futile.

                                                                               

                                                                              I have on numerous past occasions posted on the fallacy of the totally artificial Adobe Creative "Suite" concept, for which Bridge was jerry-rigged to somehow mimic the function of a connection element among the applications that were presented as a "suite", e.g.:

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              Inconsistency between or among applications in the artificial "suites" should come as no surprise.

                                                                               

                                                                              The "suite" concept is a fabrication of Adobe marketing and bean-counting types.  The engineering teams are totally independent of each other, they are not only in different buildings but in different cities and states of the American Union, even in different countries.

                                                                               

                                                                              The fact that they have little if any communication among them is highlighted by requests occasionally made in these forums by top Adobe engineers to let the other teams know when there are problems in one application that impact our workflow in another one.

                                                                              • 37. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                                thedigitaldog MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                                                Nrbelex wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'm saying Bridge only generates sRGB previews, no matter what color space the original image is in.

                                                                                I believe that is correct. It's a browser, it has to generate previews of all files. Much like Lightroom generates previews (it can use two color spaces depending on the module). I don't use Bridge, haven't tested it's use of only sRGB but what you write makes sense. Again, LR does a very similar creation of previews upon import or in other modes of operation. That's why if you want to compare previews in LR and say Photoshop, you must use Develop module, not the other modules and further, the zoom ratio affects the accuracy of said reviews. May again be the same in bridge (meaning view them at 1:1).

                                                                                • 38. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                                  gator soup Level 4

                                                                                  .

                                                                                  i don't have a clue what "sRGB preview" is in context, but i could argue Photoshop only generates sRGB previews on my Apple monitor because it is limited to that general gamut—yes—it's just not clear what i am talking about

                                                                                  • 39. Re: Color Management Discrepencies Between Bridge, ACR & Photoshop
                                                                                    Nrbelex Level 1

                                                                                    station_two:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I replied to you back on the older thread - I wouldn't have cross-posted either, but I didn't get an answer when I initially posted a few months ago in the other thread.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Andrew Rodney,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Yea, this makes sense. It's just unfortunate and not how I would expect Bridge to behave. And worse is they don't make it clear and seem to imply the opposite:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Bridge EXIF.jpg

                                                                                     

                                                                                    But now that I know, I can work around the limitation.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    gator soup

                                                                                     

                                                                                    We're not talking about what the screen is displaying when we say Bridge is limited to displaying sRGB previews. You don't need to think about monitors at all. Bridge is coded by Adobe only to genrate and display still images in the sRGB gamut, no matter what. Photoshop, by comparison, is not.

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