9 Replies Latest reply: Mar 27, 2013 5:18 PM by TerraAustralis RSS

    InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.

    TerraAustralis Community Member

      I am new to InDesign CS5 and cannot get the program to set text consistently. I have imported .rtf text from Word and created a Style to make setting adjustments easier. However I find some paras have not responded to the style correctly.

      My style is 10mm First line indent, with full justification and last line ranged left right ragged.

       

      Most of the text has set as described but several paras have ignored the last line ranged left and have set to full measure with ugly expanded word spaces.

       

      I have tried to over-ride by highlighting the offending paras and clicking the paragraph styles in the Paragraph pallet window. The paras switch from centred to ranged left or right as one would expect, but the last line ranged left for the justified text stubbornly refuses to respond.

      I checked my Styles specs to seek conflicts and found non. I have invisibles switched on to check keystrokes and can see no problems there. I have checked Preferences but cannot figure out which may cause this problem.

       

      A clue may be that the offending paras will not accept a soft return. If I have a tight line and insert the type tool in front of the last word to turn it onto the next line of text, the whole word is spread the full width of the measure and the next line drops down refusing to accept the word.

       

      My reference book for InDesign is the lucid Kvern, Blatner, Bringhurst book Adobe CS5.

       

      Can anyone suggest what may be wrong please or point me to the correct section of the book to re-read as I have run out of ideas.

        • 1. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
          Steve Werner CommunityMVP

          I've moved your question to the InDesign forum where you'l get a wider range of opinions.

          • 2. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
            Peter Spier CommunityMVP

            Some screen shots might help. You can embed them in a post using the camera icon on the web page like this:

            CameraIcon.png

             

             

            TerraAustralis wrote:

             

            A clue may be that the offending paras will not accept a soft return. If I have a tight line and insert the type tool in front of the last word to turn it onto the next line of text, the whole word is spread the full width of the measure and the next line drops down refusing to accept the word.

            That sounds like a section of text that has either No Break applied, or the words are seaprated by non-breaking spaces and hyphenation is disabled. Have you tried holding the Alt/Opt key while clicking on your style to clear overrides (that would remove No Break, and an override on hyphanation, but it won't affect spaces)?

            • 3. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
              TerraAustralis Community Member

              Thanks for your comments Peter.

              Option/click is not clearing the Para Over- ride. I cleared over-rides with Para Pallet Menu but there is no change to text. Hyphenation is on. Keep is default 0.

              Where does one swith No Break on or off?

              I have not set any non breaking spaces.

               

              The point is of the ninety page book only certain sections have
              mis-behaved in this manner. Could it be that the Word .rtf file has glitches that causes problems with InDesign?

               

              Enclosed image shows settings if they can be read. You can see some paras have last line ranged left while others are justified on the full measure. How do I cancel non-breaking word spaces?

               

              Picture 3.jpg

              • 4. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
                Peter Spier CommunityMVP

                Your screen shot shows the lines with the bad spacing end in a forced line break, so they aren't the last line in a paragraph at all, and the following line is not the start of a new paragraph. The question now becomes waht should those line breaks REALLY be? Paragraph breaks or just spaces between sentences?

                 

                Once you decide that you can use Find/Change to find forced line breaks and replace them with either spaces or paragraph breaks. If there's a possibility that you actually want some forced line breaks in your text you need to be careful to either limit the scope of the search to text that should not have any, or to use find, then change and find or find next, so that you can choose which ones to change and which to leave. If some should be spaces, some paragraph breaks, and some forced line breaks should stay, then you probably need to leave non-printing characters showing and scroll through the file manually making the decisions as you go.

                • 5. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
                  TerraAustralis Community Member

                  Thank you for your interest Peter.

                  Your observations are accurate. As I said, I had made some soft returns. Putting that aside it is the problem of the last line of para text which I was concerned with. That was the key issue.

                   

                  It appears to be resolved now. I highlighted one of the last Para lines with expanded word spaces, Hit the range left Para icon and immediately all the text in the last line readjusted. That flowed on backwards throughout all the effected paragraphs over 4 pages. I have no idea what caused the problem.


                  Eventually I will probably learn how InDesign automatic setting works with para spacing. Until then I am happy that I have a technique that fixes the problem.

                   

                  Thank you for your generous assistance.

                  • 6. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
                    Peter Spier CommunityMVP

                    I'm not quite sure what you've done. In all of the highlighted text that's visible in the screen capture there is not one paragraph return, so there is no last line with a problem, only lines following the forced line breaks (soft returns). I see a couple of tabs here and there that probably don't belong, too.

                    • 7. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
                      TerraAustralis Community Member

                      Point taken Peter. I am trying to repeat the process.

                      I find that in some cases the soft return is the problem. I should have used a Paragraph return.

                      Which I believe is the point you were making earlier. See below:

                       

                      However, I did highlight one line with severly expanded word spaces, hit the range left button which worked, and then the full justify with last line ranged left, and that fixed that particular problem. But that is clearly a separate issue from this one.

                       

                      Either way your input has made me look more carefully at what I am doing. Many Thanks.

                       

                      Before:

                      Before 1.jpg

                      After:

                      After 2.jpg

                      • 8. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
                        Peter Spier CommunityMVP

                        When I look at your last tow screen captures I see that the soft return after "this was going to take some time" was replaced by hard return, which all by itself should have solved the problem.

                         

                        Text alignment is a paragraph level attribute and you simply cannot apply left aligned to one line in the middle of a full justified paragraph (only the last line, and only by choosing the full justified with last line aligned left option), and you cannot mix any justification settings within a paragraph at all without the paragraph being fully justified (again, only the last line options).

                        • 9. Re: InDesign CS5 Manual setting probs. Please Help.
                          TerraAustralis Community Member

                          Yes, understood Peter.    

                          After re-working text in the light of your comments and the actions I have taken, I see most of the problems were created by soft returns being used instead of para returns.

                           

                          I am working through the text manually as I would prefer to solve H&J as individual issues. I sometimes re-write a sentence to achieve a better setting.

                           

                          The single line highlight attempt did effect the whole para, and other pages as I said. I may have deleted an offending space or indent keystroke in the process and that may explain why the text reflowed correctly.

                           

                          I am learning InDesign text flow characteristics and am watching its behaviour to learn cause and effect.