24 Replies Latest reply on Apr 23, 2013 12:11 PM by Alex - DV411

    Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)

    jb2sprint Level 1

      I'm not really a hardware guy so I don't know if this is the good setup or not. My company is ordering me a new computer.  I currently have Premiere Pro CS5.5 but for the sake of this conversation, let's assume I upgrade to CS6 at some point.  I also run Lightroom and Photoshop rather extensively.  The "IT" guy sent me a message that said he was going to purchase the following machine:

       

      Dell Precision T7600

      Core Xeon Processor 2.4GHz

      16GB RAM

      Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

      1GB NVidia Quadro 600 Video card

      500GB boot Hard drive

      256GB SSD Drive

       

      My employer has a corp account with Dell, so I dont have any say in that matter, but I can swap out the video card if there is a better option in the same general price range.  Any input would be greatly appreciated. 

       

      Thank you.

        • 1. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          nVidia GTX 650 Ti Boost is slightly less expensive and leaves the Quadro 600 in the dust. My condolences with the Dell.

          • 2. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
            RjL190365 Level 4

            Guess what? Dell offers two different E5 Xeons in this system (one a quad-core E5-2609, the other an eight-core E5-2665) at this 2.4GHz speed. You must specify which one of those two when talking about a 2.4GHz Sandy Bridge-E Xeon.

             

            And if you must order a GPU upgrade from Dell, the only (reasonably) cost-effective choice would be a Quadro K4000 for an additional $585.50 over the employer's choice of a Quadro 600. This is because that Quadro 600 is old and slow, being based on a GeForce GT 430 (96 CUDA cores) with 1GB of DDR3 graphics RAM that delivers a bandwidth of only 28.5 GB/s. But even the Quadro K4000 is a tad slower than the same company's newly introduced $150-ish GTX 650 Ti Boost: Although both GPUs have 768 CUDA cores, the one in the Quadro K4000 is slightly lower-clocked, and its memory bandwidth is slightly lower (134.4 GB/s versus 144 GB/s).

             

            But then again, such an upgrade would require either a significant increase in the system budget or significant downgrades on the rest of that system. Unfortunately, Dell does not offer any worthwhile GPUs in the same price range as that Quadro 600 for that system. (Sure, there is a Quadro K600, but it is only a sideways-grade from the older Quadro 600 performance-wise, with only 192 Kepler-type CUDA cores and the same lousy 28.8 GB/s memory bandwidth.) Therefore, you must purchase the faster-performing GPU separately by yourself, and then install it yourself.

            • 3. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
              jb2sprint Level 1

              Thanks.  I have asked them if its possible to provide me a list of available video cards to choose from.  Awaiting response.

               

              As far as the type of system, it is a quad-core, the 2609. 

              • 4. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                On such a CPU, the 650 Ti Boost is about the best while still being affordable. Anything more is just overkill, the CPU is just too slow. It is only a quad core without HT and a clock speed of 2.4 and Dell's can not be overclocked. It is about similar in performance to an i5-3570.

                • 5. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                  jb2sprint Level 1

                  Here is the list of cards available on this computer.  So, staying within the same general price range, the 2GB Quadro 4000 (priced at 475.95) would be the best bet, per the message above?  Can one of the others mentioned above (650 Ti Boost) be purchased on the side and then added to the machine after it arrived from Dell?

                   

                  videocards.jpg

                  • 6. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    This again proves that Dell rips you off, if you deviate from their standard offer. My suggestion is to get the useless AMD FirePro, which is included in the price, and when you get the machine, pull it out and throw it away. Then buy a GTX 650 Ti Boost for around $ 170 and put that in.

                     

                    Instead of spending $ 475 for a slow Quadro 4000, you save around $ 300 and you get about twice the performance.

                    • 7. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                      jb2sprint Level 1

                      Thanks guys, appreciate the responses.  Just ran the suggestions of buying the additional card on the side to the IT guys and they were fine with that.  Looks like that is the new plan. 

                       

                      Thanks again.

                      • 8. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                        Kranex1 Level 1

                        The Quadro 5000 is a 4GB card; your list is incorrect. The professional Quadro cards give you more stability. At least that's what the claim is.

                        • 9. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                          RjL190365 Level 4

                          Kranex wrote:

                           

                          The Quadro 5000 is a 4GB card; your list is incorrect. The professional Quadro cards give you more stability. At least that's what the claim is.

                          Sorry, but you're incorrect. The OP's list is correct. The Quadro 5000 has a 320-bit memory interface, but 40 bytes (320 bits) do not divide evenly into 4GB. In order to achieve 4GB worth of memory, the memory interface would have had to have been either 256-bit or 512-bit (or 384-bit if using different-capacity ICs).

                          • 10. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Directly from the nVidia web site:

                             

                            GPU Specs:

                            NVIDIA Quadro GPU      Quadro 5000

                            # NVIDIA Quadro GPUs      1

                            CUDA Cores      352

                            Form Factor      4.376” H x 9.75” L / Dual Slot

                            Gigaflops (Single Precision)      718.08

                            Gigaflops (Double Precision)      359.04

                            GPU Memory Specs:

                            Total Frame Buffer      2.5 GB

                            GDDR5 Memory Interface      320-bit

                            Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec)      120 GB/s

                            • 11. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                              Kranex1 Level 1

                              Indeed. I was referring of the k5000 of course.

                              • 12. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                jb2sprint Level 1

                                Ok gang,

                                 

                                I have yet to get the new computer that I was talking about when I started this thread, been waiting on some things to shake out here at work.  Company has now added HP as another authorized PC supplier.  While it's still not as good as a custom build, it does seem to offer a little bit more in the way of options for me.  Here is what I was presented.

                                 

                                HP Z420 Xeon 3.6GHz processor

                                6GB RAM

                                1TB Hard Drive

                                256GB Solid State Drive

                                GEFORECE GTX 660 PCI-E Video Card

                                 

                                 

                                Is 6GB RAM enough for that setup?  Other thoughts? 

                                 

                                Thanks in advance once again!

                                • 13. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  Would that be the Xeon E5-1620? That is about the same as the i7-3820.

                                   

                                  In that case up memory to 32 GB and add at least 2 disks. Even then it will be a lower quartile Q1 performer.

                                  • 14. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                    Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                    Even then it will be a lower quartile Q1 performer.

                                    While it may be in a "lower quartile" (according to a benchmark co-developed by Harm, with heavy reliance on exports times, and zero - on dropped frames), it'll still perform admirably in Premiere Pro.

                                     

                                    Jb2: will you have an option to upgrade the system with additional items after the purchase?  (Upgrading the memory and storage isn't very difficult on a Z420.)  Also, see if you can ask your IT dept that the following HP accessories be added to the build:

                                    - HP Z4 Fan and Front Card Guide Kit, P/N A2Z46AA - will help cool the GPU

                                    - HP Z420 Front Memory Duct, P/N C4J29AA - will help cool the 2nd memory bank

                                    - HP Z420 Handle in Top Optical Bay (contains two SFF internal drive bays), P/N A9A48AA - eases service, adds two SFF bays

                                     

                                    Cheers.

                                    • 15. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Alex,

                                       

                                      You have made this remark several times:

                                      with heavy reliance on exports times, and zero - on dropped frames

                                      and I have asked you each time to suggest a consistent method to measure dropped frames in this benchmark. I would love to include it, but never had a single suggestion from you.

                                       

                                      Instead of uttering your criticism, help us to improve the benchmark and suggest ways how to measure dropped frames in what phase of editing, ingest or export, with what kind of test. Help us to add that. Only telling some criticisms, without EVER having done the test yourself and submitting your data, makes it sound like your fairy tale.

                                      • 16. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                        Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                        Instead of uttering your criticism, help us to improve the benchmark and suggest ways how to measure dropped frames in what phase of editing, ingest or export, with what kind of test. Help us to add that. Only telling some criticisms...

                                        Harm, would have been happy to help if I had the capacity.  As far as "only telling criticisms" - back at ya: criticizing Tier 1 platforms based on slanted benchmark results isn't going to win you friends - and you do that way more often that I "criticize" PPBM.

                                        • 17. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          based on slanted benchmark results

                                          Explanation please.

                                          • 20. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                            Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                            #42

                                             

                                            Care to answer now?

                                            No. I did before - didn't help. Harm keeps measuring the world by a slanted benchmark, and denigrating "other" platforms, often using offensive language ("here's where Dell rips you off") and personal insults, while I keep calling him on it. Your #42 is hardly an acceptable form of apology for an insult, by any standard.

                                             

                                            Harm: I'd like to suggest a variation of our standard MO (of spiraling into a personal spat and hi-jacking threads): no offensive language ("rips you off", "waste of money", etc.), and I'll do my best to stop responding to your posts.  You're welcome to use the more common technical terms such as "price-to-performance ratio" and others, vs. your usual "rips you off" and "waste of money", and if you ever have difficulty finding one, I'll be here to help.

                                            • 21. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                              RjL190365 Level 4

                                              I'd also have to qualify the terms "waste of money" and "rips you off" when it comes to Quadros: Sure, they are so if you are one who does not use any software that takes advantage of the Quadro's capabilities. (Premiere Pro, for one, doesn't take much if any advantage of the Quadros until one does something much more than simple edits on AVCHD material.) But if you are one of the relative few who extensively uses workstation apps without much video editing, then one of the lesser Quadros might be worth it. (Of course, if you are one who frequently uses those workstation apps and a lot of heavy-duty video editing, then you have no choice but to spend the money for the higher-end Quadro such as the K4000 or K5000, at a cost of $700+ USD.)

                                               

                                              On the other hand, if you are one of those people who run both Quadro-optimized workstation apps and games on the same PC, then you're stuck in no-man's land: The Quadro drivers do not support much if any gaming (the Quadros do not support Direct3D, which most PC games still require, at all whatsoever), while some of the workstation apps run significantly slower on a GeForce than on an otherwise lesser-specced Quadro.

                                              • 22. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                                Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                I'd also have to qualify the terms "waste of money" and "rips you off" when it comes to Quadros: Sure, they are so if you are one who does not use any software that takes advantage of the Quadro's capabilities.

                                                "waste of money" and "rips you off" aren't technical terms; they are denigrating, disparaging terms that have no place in a professional, courteous discussion.  I'd say they're reserved for people who have little respect for views outside of their own scope of understanding, and flaunting it.

                                                 

                                                Example: A 3-year cost of employment of a VFX artist or professional editor can easily exceed $300K.  The choice of a GPU is peanuts compared to that and the cost of support and warranty - which is why Tier 1 systems along with Quadros are chosen over DIY and GeForces despite the latter's better price-to-performance ratio. This has little to do with features and more with how the enterprise and professional world works.

                                                • 23. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                                  RjL190365 Level 4

                                                  Alex,

                                                   

                                                  I see where you're coming from. Your views on systems are from the viewpoint of a big-time production house and/or a very highly paid professional (as opposed to a small-time hobbyist or avid consumer who makes relatively little money from his work). In the case of the latter group, such a first-tier system can practically wipe out the entire life savings of such a user.

                                                  • 24. Re: Getting a new PC.  Video card (using suggested model)
                                                    Alex - DV411 Level 2

                                                    I see where you're coming from. Your views on systems are from the viewpoint of a big-time production house and/or a very highly paid professional...

                                                    Just professionals, not necessarily "very highly paid".  I wish all of my clients ordered $20K systems; quite a few of them are in the $5-7K range.

                                                     

                                                    The point was tolerance to views outside of one's scope, not the money.