39 Replies Latest reply on Apr 2, 2013 7:06 AM by PierreLouisBeranek

    Color coded Bins

    PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

      With Premiere's great ability to set Label colors to individual clips in the Timeline, it would be fantastic if users to color label individual folders, such that any media currently in the folder or added to it would take on the same label.

       

      This feature would work great in conjunction with my suggested FCPX and FCP7 inspired methods for creating subslips on the fly from the Source Monitor or by dragging & dropping from the Timeline.  In this way, any subclips sent or drag/dropped to a particular folder could also take on a specific label color for even greater functionality!

       

      Any thoughts?

       

      BTW, right-clicking on a Bin currently gives users the option to set a Label in the context menu, but this doesn't seem to actually do anything.  Can others please confirm if this is non-functional on their systems as well?  Thanks!

        • 2. Re: Color coded Bins
          PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

          First I'd like to confirm that setting a label on bins in other people's systems gives that same negative result I'm seeing on my system.  If you can confirm, than I'll send my FR.  Thanks.

          • 3. Re: Color coded Bins
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Setting the Label color on a right click works fine here.

            • 4. Re: Color coded Bins
              Steven L. Gotz Level 5

              Perhaps I am missing something. Are you saying that any media dropped into the folder would take on the same color? That video with audio and video without audio would be the same color as an MP3 file? Or is it just subclips?

               

              There are only so many colors. What if the folders exceeded that number?

               

              I am not saying it is a bad idea, but you might want to consider questions like these when you write your request.

              • 5. Re: Color coded Bins
                PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                Hi Steven,

                 

                Yes, what I'm suggesting is that if you set a specific Label to a Bin, any media you drop in it would take on that Bin's Label.  So if you have a logical reason to drop video clips together with MP3 files into a Bin, they'd take on the same Label.

                 

                You could create more Bins than available Label colors, since any newly created Bin would be Label-free, as is currently the case in Premiere.  With 6 Labels/colors (other than the one used for bins), you could set 6 different types of auto-labeling Bins.  Of course, you could set 2 or more Bins to the same Label.  For example, the color for all Interview related footage could be set to green, and therefore any related bins - e.g. 'Soundbites', 'Interviews', 'Questions', 'Answers', 'Interviewer/Interviewee Reactions', etc. - could be set to the same Label.  That way, any subclips sent to those Bins by way of the subclip creation tools I suggested in another thread, would automatically take on the Label chosen to represent Interview footage.  This would make it extremely easy to identify all Interview related clips in the Timeline when drag/dropped from any of those Bins!

                 

                I think 6 Labels is a good enough start, but  the case could be made for having more color Labels available.

                 

                How many do you think there should be?

                 

                I hope this makes sense.  If you have any improvements to suggest on this idea, please share!  I do like to consider as many questions as possible before forming FRs.

                • 6. Re: Color coded Bins
                  PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                  Hi Jim, did you try setting a Label color on a Bin itself, not its contents?  I can set Labels to clips/media in the Project window, yes, but not on Bins themselves.  Please elaborate on your results.  Thanks.

                  • 7. Re: Color coded Bins
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    Hi Jim, did you try setting a Label color on a Bin itself, not its contents?

                     

                    Both, and both worked fine.

                    • 8. Re: Color coded Bins
                      Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                      Any thoughts?

                      What if one doesn't want all assets in a bin inherit the bin label? Isn't it better be more flexible, i.e. being able to assign label colour to any selected asset (group of assets) inside a bin in the Project panel at any time one wants (in other words, leave it as it is now)?

                      • 9. Re: Color coded Bins
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        (I would agree, Fuzzy.)

                        • 10. Re: Color coded Bins
                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                          OK, I get what you want, but please understand that since long time Premiere and Premiere Pro users have never had the option, we really don't miss it. And most of us probably don't see the need for it.

                           

                          I like having different colors for different types of media. If I had music and video (with and without audio) all the same color, it would be a hassle.

                           

                          I have never cared what bin a video came out of. I file them to make them easier to keep track of, sure, but it is too easy to ask the clip where I can find it in the bins. Why would I want to have to do without the color coding of the type of media just to know what bin a clip came from.

                           

                          So, sorry, I think I get it, but I don't want it. You can put in a feature request, but I would much prefer they work on things I need instead. Like sorting thumbnails.

                          • 11. Re: Color coded Bins
                            PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                            Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                             

                            What if one doesn't want all assets in a bin inherit the bin label?

                            In that case you simply don't set a Label on the Bin.

                             

                            I wrote: "any newly created Bin would be Label-free, as is currently the case in Premiere", so I'm not sure where the confusion comes from.

                             

                            Steven,

                            It took me several re-read to understand what you're saying, but I think I got it.  If I understood correctly, you're saying it's very easy to find out which Bin a clip came from, for example by using the 'Reveal in Project' command.  If that's correct, you're missing the point.  The point is that with the ability to automatically color code (i.e. Label) media placed within a certain Bin, when using that media in the Timeline, you would have a visual representation of which media is what in the Timeline.  So if you set your 'Interviews' Bin to Red, a quick glance at all the red clips in the Timeline would visually inform you of everywhere in your sequence you used an interview  shot.  This could and would be useful for many editors, myself included!  Hope this explanation helps.

                             

                            Jim,

                            I'm surprised you can set Bin icons to different colors (Labels) on your system, but I can't on mine.  Perhaps this is a bug?  Could anyone else confirm if they can set their Bins (not the contents but the Bin icon itself) to different Labels?  Thanks.

                            • 12. Re: Color coded Bins
                              Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                              I wrote: "any newly created Bin would be Label-free, as is currently the case in Premiere", so I'm not sure where the confusion comes from.

                              No confusion at all. What if one e.g. changed his mind and want assets in a previously specifically labeled bin were labeled differently?

                              Could anyone else confirm if they can set their Bins (not the contents but the Bin icon itself) to different Labels?

                              I can. So as to set different label to a bin or to a group of selected assets go to Edit -> Label. At least on CS5.5 this works that way.

                              So if you set your 'Interviews' Bin to Red, a quick glance at all the red clips in the Timeline would visually inform you of everywhere in your sequence you used an interview  shot.  This could and would be useful for many editors, myself included!

                              As I said, you can do what you want with current functionality, staying more flexible. Help sometimes helps (pun intended).

                              • 13. Re: Color coded Bins
                                medeamajic Level 2

                                Fuzzy,

                                 

                                I don't think Pierre has bothered to watch a lot of Premiere Pro videos before making his posts.

                                • 14. Re: Color coded Bins
                                  PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                  Hi Fuzzy,

                                   

                                  Yes, you can do what you want with current functionality, as you say.  What I'm saying is that it would be neat if, when setting a Label to a Bin, the actual color of the Bin icon itself changed to reflect it's current Label (something that currenlty does not happen), and all media currently in that Bin or added later adopted that same label, automatically.

                                   

                                  This automatic behavior would be a time saver, and in no way would impede on the current workflow of editors.  If you want to set different bin items to different Labels, you simply wouldn't set a Label to that Bin.  Simple, efficient, fast and flexible (i.e. ability to only use it when you want).

                                   

                                  Hope this makes it clear once and for all.  If anything still needs clarification, please let me know.

                                  • 15. Re: Color coded Bins
                                    PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                    medeajamic,

                                     

                                    Once again, I ask: Why the attitude?  The video Fuzzy linked isn't even relevant to the FR I'm discussing here.

                                     

                                    I'm trying to help while you're trying to insult others.  This forum should be a place to help each other, not insult and put each other down.  Any further  posts such as this will be Reported to Adobe.

                                    • 17. Re: Color coded Bins
                                      Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                      This automatic behavior would be a time saver, and in no way would impede on the current workflow of editors.  If you want to set different bin items to different Labels, you simply wouldn't set a Label to that Bin.  Simple, efficient, fast and flexible (i.e. ability to only use it when you want).

                                      Any automatic behaviour, which is not foolproof and, what is more, limits functionality is the right Royal pane, not a time saver.

                                      The video Fuzzy linked isn't even relevant to the FR I'm discussing here.

                                      Really? I thought your intention was based on colour ease of identification assets that fall into specific category in the timeline. However, you seems are struggling for change for the sake of change...

                                      • 18. Re: Color coded Bins
                                        medeamajic Level 2

                                        Listen and listen good my friend. You were very exited about FCP X and it's metadata capabilities in another post. Having said that my response is very very appropriate considering your other posts. Your video from another thread showed batch renaming and other metadata stuff that FCP X could do. Premiere and Bridge can do a lot of the same things as well so I was not impressed. It would be wise for you to watch some Bridge/Premiere videos before making your posts. I never stated that you could change the color of the bin or do everything in Premiere that you can in FCP X. My point is that you should watch some Adobe videos because I have not been impressed with the FCP X videos you posted thus far. Priemiere Pro/Bridge can do a lot of the same things if you know how to use them. I think others would agree that there are other things that we want added to Premiere much more than the things you want. Surface Controls would be cool in my opinion but much of the other stuff you want I don't see a big need for them.

                                        • 19. Re: Color coded Bins
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                          What I'm saying is that it would be neat if, when setting a Label to a Bin, the actual color of the Bin icon itself changed to reflect it's current Label

                                           

                                          I would not like that at all.

                                          • 20. Re: Color coded Bins
                                            PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                            medeamajic wrote:

                                            Priemiere Pro/Bridge can do a lot of the same things if you know how to use them.

                                             

                                            That's true.  If you know how to use it, so can editing film and splicing clips with tape... it can achieve a lot of what Premiere Pro can do.  But would you want to do it that way? 

                                             

                                            Just because Premiere Pro/Bridge can do something another program can, does not mean that their approach is necessarily the best and could not use some improvements.  My point isn't what PP can or can't do in conjunction with other Adobe programs, it's finding the best way for doing certain things.

                                             

                                            In that light, sure you can throw clips in a bin and then manually set them all to a common Label.  But is that the best approach?  I think being able to automate that procress (if, and only if/when you want to) would be a time saver.  Those who argue that it wouldn't be a time saver, due to the desire to flexibly Label a bin's contents, are ignoring the fact that using 'Color coded Bins' would be 100% optional and, for all practical purposes, wouldn't change current workflows.  It's a win win.  Use it if you want.  Don't use it if you don't.

                                             

                                            The only case where this would change one's current workflow is if someone uses the Labels column in the Project window, sets their Bins to different Labels, and wants the media in those Bins to set to something else.  Does anyone actually do this, and if so, why?

                                            • 21. Re: Color coded Bins
                                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                                              But is that the best approach?

                                               

                                              I think it is, yes.  Programs that do things automatically tend to be very frustrating. I'd prefer user interaction be required to initiate most actions.  Even if optional, like Steven I think we're better served if Adobe spent their limited resources on other things.

                                              • 22. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                                Those who argue that it wouldn't be a time saver, due to the desire to flexibly Label a bin's contents, are ignoring the fact that using 'Color coded Bins' would be 100% optional and, for all practical purposes, wouldn't change current workflows.  It's a win win.  Use it if you want.  Don't use it if you don't.

                                                Completely opposite. Those who argue that so called 'optional' coercive inheriting parent label colour 'feature' is a well thought win-win workflow are ignoring the fact that workflow and habits of different people are different. I DO want to have an opportunity to change a bin label colour when I need it. I DON'T want it would turn into the behaviour when footages and dynamically linked AE comps have the same colour in the Timeline. Therefore, so as to take into account preferences of people like me you should (whereas you don't even want to) provide an opportunity to choose whether assets dropped into that bin inherit its label colour or not.

                                                 

                                                Now let's try to involve some math to calculate whether it is a time saver at all:

                                                - Step 1. Select a bin

                                                - Step 2. Assign a colour

                                                - Step 3. Choose inheriting behaviour

                                                If you want to change inheriting behaviour over time, then

                                                - Step 4. Change inheriting behaviour.

                                                 

                                                How it is currently implemented:

                                                - Step 1. Select an arbitrary amount of assets

                                                - Step 2. Assign a colour

                                                 

                                                To sum up: one of the key rule for successful managing change strategy is avoiding unnecessary change. OK, forget it...

                                                • 23. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                  Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                                  I think part of the problem here is that Premiere Pro users are rather protective of the features that are asked for, because we have seen many that we didn't want get implemented, and many that we did want left behind due to lack of resources.

                                                   

                                                  Once again, we never had it, don't see the use for it, and in fact we see it as counterproductive.

                                                   

                                                  There is a simple way to keep track of your interview vs B-roll.  Put them on different tracks. Extremely visible way that is available today without engineering resources.

                                                   

                                                      " Don't use it if you don't. "

                                                   

                                                  That is the crux of the problem. We fear that some Adobe engineer agrees with you and might have been waiting for a feature request from a user so they could implement yet another feature that would annoy the heck out of us.  i.e. tried getting your mouse anywhere near a cut without the icon changing to some huge trim tool. Makes it hard to select a transition doesn't it?That was somebody's very lame implementation to fix a problem that never existed. Or, even if it is a decent idea, it is not as good as the one we want the engineer to concentrate on.

                                                   

                                                  We want other things and to us, the Premiere Pro faithful, too many changes have been made in the name of compatibility with FCP already. If we had wanted to use FCP, we would have bought a Mac and used FCP. But we didn't. We have been trying to get Premiere Pro to the way we want it and we feel like we are in danger of losing the battle to a bunch of recent arrivals.

                                                  • 24. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                    Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                                    Once again, we never had it, don't see the use for it, and in fact we see it as counterproductive.

                                                    We DO have the opportunity to choose the same colour for an arbitrary group of assets or all assets in a bin, which will be reflected in the Timeline.

                                                    • 25. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                      Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                                      Yes, but he appears to want it to be automatic, and that seems counterproductive to me. I can change anything I want, I don't need the program to change it for me. And while it may seem like a good idea to him, it isn't as good as other, more important features we are missing, or that need fixing.

                                                      • 26. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                        PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                                        Hi Fuzzy,

                                                         

                                                        The logic in your example here is wrong:

                                                        Now let's try to involve some math to calculate whether it is a time saver at all:

                                                        - Step 1. Select a bin

                                                        - Step 2. Assign a colour

                                                        - Step 3. Choose inheriting behaviour

                                                        If you want to change inheriting behaviour over time, then

                                                        - Step 4. Change inheriting behaviour.

                                                         

                                                        How it is currently implemented:

                                                        - Step 1. Select an arbitrary amount of assets

                                                        - Step 2. Assign a colour

                                                         

                                                        Here's the correct sequence:

                                                         

                                                        My FR:

                                                        1. Select a bin
                                                        2. Assign a colour label

                                                        Done.  No more steps, since any media currently or later added to that bin automatically inherits the bin's label!  (In the improbable instance that you make a mistake and ever need to change the bin's label, that could easily be done)

                                                         

                                                        Premiere Pro's current method for setting all clips in a bin to a common label:

                                                        1. Open bin
                                                        2. Lasso or Shift select the clips
                                                        3. Assign the colour label
                                                        4. Added more clips to the bin?  Repeat steps 1-3 (or 2-3 if bin is already twirled open)
                                                        5. Added yet more clips?.. repeat again
                                                        6. ...and so on... you get the point

                                                         

                                                        So yes, I stand firm in my knowledge that my FR would make for a faster and more efficient workflow whenever editors want to Label any Bin of media.  What I forgot to mention is that a way to undo this would be necessary in case an editor changes their mind and want to Label individual media within a Bin.  A simple 'remove Label' option on the top of the 'Labels' context menu could take care of this.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Steven,

                                                        thank you for explaining the reasoning behind the objections to FRs.  To be fair, I think this FR I made for 'Color coded Bins'  isn't a priority for most editors and therefore shouldn't be a priority for Adobe.  If they have the time to get around to it, great.  If not, no worries.  Fixing Multicam, for example, is much more important that this!

                                                         

                                                        What would be nice is if all forum users displayed the same tact you just displayed in your post.  In other words, if someone sees an actual problem in the logic of a FR, they should explain it, instead of attacking the idea with false arguments as I've seen done in this and other posts.

                                                         

                                                        When I post FRs to share and discuss, it's just for that, to share and discuss. It's not to fight over if we think Adobe should put it at the top of their priority list or not.  Lets let Adobe worry about their order of priorities.  That way we can share ideas and all get along.  Agreed?

                                                        • 27. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                          Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                                          The logic in your example here is wrong.

                                                          Logic in my exapmle is correct. It simply assumes the respect to diferent preferences, whereas your one does not. You want to make every users follow the workflow you like, since any other workflow is wrong. Actually, perfect example of Apple strategy, 'Mother knows best'.

                                                          if someone sees an actual problem in the logic of a FR, they should explain it, instead of attacking the idea with false arguments as I've seen done in this and other posts.

                                                          Personally, I tried my best to namely explain that:

                                                          - with implemented functionality you CAN assign label to any/all assets in a bin, which will be reflected in the Timeline;

                                                          - forcing people do what they don't like is not wise; hence, you should at least provide a choice.

                                                          I did not succeed. And the reason is simple: you don't want to listen to other's opinions that don't coincide with your one.

                                                           

                                                          Good luck.

                                                          • 28. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                            We want other things and to us, the Premiere Pro faithful, too many changes have been made in the name of compatibility with FCP already. If we had wanted to use FCP, we would have bought a Mac and used FCP. But we didn't. We have been trying to get Premiere Pro to the way we want it and we feel like we are in danger of losing the battle to a bunch of recent arrivals.

                                                             

                                                            Amen, brother!

                                                            • 29. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                              FCP style color coded bins? That's a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                                                              • 30. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                                                Hi Fuzzy,

                                                                 

                                                                Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                                                                You want to make every users follow the workflow you like, since any other workflow is wrong.


                                                                - forcing people do what they don't like is not wise; hence, you should at least provide a choice.

                                                                 

                                                                you don't want to listen to other's opinions that don't coincide with your one.

                                                                Are you serious or just trying to provoke an argument?  Did you even read my last post before posting this?  You must have missed the several times I pointed out in this thread that using this FR, if implemented, would be optional, thereby giving users a choice.  Please re-read my prior post and you'll see that your comments are  untrue.

                                                                • 31. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                  PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                                                  Finally a voice of reason to send the FR to Adobe instead of killing it just because other parts of Premiere, as I agreed, need more attention.  Thank you Kevin!

                                                                   

                                                                  Kevin, if you notice any improvements that can be made to this FR, please let me know.  I will send my official FR after Adobe annouces PPCS6.5, since this along with other FRs I have in mind might already be implemented in the latest version.  Now that would make me !

                                                                  • 32. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                    Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                                                    Are you serious or just trying to provoke an argument?

                                                                    Absolutely serious.

                                                                    Did you even read my last post before posting this?  You must have missed the several times I pointed out in this thread that using this FR, if implemented, would be optional, thereby giving users a choice.

                                                                    Yes, I did read all your posts in this thread. No, I didn't miss anything. The only choice you are going to provide for those who don't like coercive inheriting behaviour is they must not change a bin label colour ever. Example with your 'two vs six steps' proves that.

                                                                     

                                                                    By the way, didn't you know how to send a feature request prior to Kevin's response?

                                                                    • 33. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                      joe bloe premiere Level 5

                                                                      By the way, didn't you know how to send a feature request prior to Kevin's response?

                                                                      There was a feature request link in the very first reply!

                                                                       

                                                                      • 34. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                        Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                                                        So, what was the reason to mark namely Kevin's response as the 'correct' one?

                                                                        • 35. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                          Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                                          I marked my answer as correct since the user will need make a feature request for that feature.

                                                                          • 36. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                            Joe,

                                                                             

                                                                            You know that nobody ever reads Reply #1 !

                                                                             

                                                                            Hunt

                                                                            • 37. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                              PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                                                              Hi Fuzzy,

                                                                               

                                                                              You bring up a legitimate concern.  A simple Preferences Menu 'on/off' option to enable/disable the feature I brought up would solve the problem for those who have a need to Label bins without the bin's Label automatically propagating to its contents.

                                                                               

                                                                              That having been said, there are ways of saying things.  If you notice something missing with a FR, say so, and for everyone's benefit, please be objective and clear.  Personality attacking a poster with a series of false/insulting claims, as you did, does nothing for improving the FR nor the dialogue on this forum.

                                                                              • 38. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                                Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                                                                1. Disagreeing with an opinion has nothing to do with a personal attack.

                                                                                2. I started with an open question so as to show you different angles, which need to be taken into account. That was you choice to perceive it as a personal attack.

                                                                                3. I never use false claims, even though you still think so. Quite contrary, it was you claim that the tutorial in the help section was not related to the issue.

                                                                                4. And I don't see the use of arguing for the sake of arguing.

                                                                                • 39. Re: Color coded Bins
                                                                                  PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                                                                                  I'm renaming this FR idea to 'Auto-propagate Bin Labels to Bin Contents' to make it clearer.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The feature would be a checkbox in the Preferences Window to accommodate all users, those who want the feature and those who don't.  I believe this would work for everyone.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Preferences.jpg