6 Replies Latest reply: Apr 4, 2013 5:43 PM by the_wine_snob RSS

    Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD

    Page D Community Member

      I have been trying to save a recently-completed project to DVD and have discovered a curiosity regarding the DeNoiser I have applied to one of my audio clips in the timeline, or rather, its behaviour.

       

      It is a little difficult to explain, so here goes, and if anybody needs extra clarification, please let me know.

       

      In my project, there are a couple of sections of audio in my timeline which consist of old analogue audio, and it is quite hissy and could benefit from a little noise reduction. So, I have used the DeNoiser on both sections. On the first such section, I have set a -7.5 dB reduction, and on the second, a -2.5 dB reduction. I haven't encountered any problems with the second section, so the following refers to the first section only. This first section begins with very low level audio, then the volume increases after a few seconds. When I first open the project and play the low-level audio at the start of this section, the noisefloor setting has not yet been established (according to the display of the DeNoiser as I look at it), and this causes the audio to drop in overall volume. As soon as it establishes where it thinks the noisefloor should be, it is at the correct level. Then, when I play this section again, there is no drop in audio, as the noisefloor has now already been established.

       

      When transferring the project to DVD without me playing this section first, so that the noisefloor setting gets established, the drop in audio will be present on the burned DVD of the project. If I play the section through, first, so that the noisefloor is established and, consequently, the audio does not drop during this initial low level few seconds of this section of audio, a burned DVD of the project (after doing this first) will come out without the audio drop (which is how I want it to be).

       

      I would have thought that the settings of the DeNoiser at all stages of the audio sections, once played through, are 'set in stone', if saving the project at this point, and will then play back identically each and every time you play it through, but it appears that it is calculating where the noisefloor should be each time you play the project. So, depending on whether or not I have played this section through (when first opening the project), affects how the audio gets transferred on a burned DVD of the project!

       

      Why aren't all the calculations of the DeNoiser settings on the audio section(s) you are using it with 'set in stone', as such, once played through the first time?

       

      EDIT

       

      Just to say, I have opened the project again, today, and it now appears that this audio section does have the noisefloor setting established without me first having to play this section through, and the audio now plays, every time, as I want it to be (no drop in audio level at the start of the audio section). I don't know why it was behaving like this yesterday, maybe this audio section got corrupted along the way. Anyway, it seems OK now, but I don't yet fully understand exactly how the DeNoiser is supposed to behave in your projects - between the time when you first apply it to one of your audio sections, up to the time when you burn the project to DVD. Maybe the DeNoiser settings are 'set in stone', as such, in your projects, and this temporary behaviour with the DeNoiser, yesterday, caused me to have doubts about this.

        • 1. Re: Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD
          the_wine_snob Community Member

          There have been several complaints about DeNoiser (in both PrE and PrPro), and as you observe, initially, DeNoiser must sample the Audio, then establish the settings to address the hiss. Normally, playing the Audio DOES set the DeNoiser, and then it should stick - like it's now doing for you. Why it was loosing its settings yesterday is a mystery.

           

          The DeNoise Effects in Audition do the sampling as the first step, and then work from those samples, so I have not seen this behavior with any of those Audition Effects - only Premiere. Why there are differences in the Effects, I cannot say. I usually just apply that Effect in Audition, but it is a separate program (though included in a couple of suites with PrPro), and it's not quite so easy to "round-trip" between PrE, as it is in one of those PrPro suites.

           

          My workflow, if applying DeNoiser in Premiere, is to play the Clip several times, after the noise floor has been determined. This normally happens naturally, as I am doing critical listening, so several plays is standard.

           

          Most of the problems seem to be when one just applies the Effect, then immediately output the Timeline. The beginning of the clip still has the hiss, while the Effect samples, then cuts in. As I would never apply any Audio Effect without critical listening, usually several times, I just cannot imagine others applying and never playing - but it seems to happen all too often.

           

          Good luck, and glad that the settings are sticking for you now.

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD
            Page D Community Member

            Thank you for your response, Bill.

             

            I've had a lot of grief getting this project to DVD, to my, admittedly, exacting standards. First, it was the issue of the Scene Markers not being placed in the exact positions I set (which you know about), and then it was this audio behaviour, with the DeNoiser. The thing is, Premiere Elements takes, seemingly, forever to burn any moderate length project to DVD.

             

            This project is 92 minutes long (for your information, I am in London, where, as you know, we use PAL). The project takes approximately THREE AND A HALF HOURS for the 'Burn to DVD' process to complete (from the 'Encoding Media' stage, through to the 'Compiling Media' stage, and, lastly, the 'Burn to Disc' stage). The project has all been rendered prior to burning to DVD. I also have the DVD Drive's burn speed set to maximum speed. I do not understand why it takes so long. There is no heavy amount of editing in this project. I have, admittedly, quite a basic PC (Windows XP), with AMD 64 Athlon, but have 2 Gb of RAM installed, and a 500 Gb Hard Drive.

            • 3. Re: Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD
              the_wine_snob Community Member

              The bottlenecks in Transcoding for DVD-Video will be your CPU, your installed RAM and then your I/O, i.e. HDD's, their speed, controller type, and how you have them allocated. They physical burning to disc is relatively minor.

               

              PrE does a bit of math, regarding the physical burn speed, based on the capabilities of one's multi-drive/burner, and then the speed of the blank media. It goes for the fastest possible burn speed, considering those aspects, which is not always the best. Because of it's averaging all factors, to the fastes, I do not use it to do any physical burns. Instead, I Burn to Folder, and use the great, free ImgBurn to do the physical burning, and set the burn speed to much less than the max (usually around 2x - 4x). Burning at too high a burn speed can yield DVD-Videos, that do not play well with all DVD hardware players, so I wish to maximize playability of any DVD-Video, that I produce. With over 2000+ delivered, I have never had one returned due to playability issues, but always use Verbatim, Taiyo-Yuden or Falcon Pro (I think they are US only) blank media.

               

              A two-hour Project will Transcode and burn on my workstation in about 100 minutes, including the slower burn. Now, I use Adobe Encore to do my authoring, but it uses the very same MainConcept MPEG-2 DVD Encoder, that PrE uses, so there should be little difference in the time required. That workstation has dual 3.36 Quad-Core Intel CPU's, 4GB RAM (32-bit XP-Pro OS), but 6 SATA III 7200RPM HDD's.

               

              Good luck,

               

              Hunt

              • 4. Re: Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD
                Page D Community Member

                Thank you, Bill.

                 

                Yes, regarding DVD burn speeds, I usually try to stick to the 'half to two-thirds maximum speed' approach. I have read on various sites that for optimum burns, you should take note of the DVD's quoted maximum burn speed (usually 16x, with my DVDs) and just burn the data at anything between half that speed (i.e. 8x with a 16x speed DVD) to two-thirds that speed (i.e. approx. 10x with a 16x speed DVD), and you shouldn't get any problems. I think that same rule-of-thumb applies to CD-Rs.

                 

                I always use Taiyo Yuden discs. Reliability, I have found, is second-to-none. Mind you, I hope their general manufacturing quality doesn't drop, with JVC recently having bought them out (?).

                • 5. Re: Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD
                  hsaalfeld1 Community Member

                  We found the problem. It was the incompatibility with windows 7.

                   

                  Thanks all for your help.

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  Heike Saalfeld

                  hsaalfeld1@aol.com

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Elements 8: DeNoiser Behaviour When Burning Projects to DVD
                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                    Thank you for posting that. If you have a moment, could you outline that incompatibility, to help others in the future?

                     

                    As for the T-Y discs, I bought 1,000 a year, or so, ago, so still have some of the older discs.

                     

                    Falcon Pro (think they are still ONLY for the US market?) has actually turned in better error handling, than my favorite T-Y and Verbatim. I picked up 500, and since I have now retired, will probably have enough old T-Y's, Falcon Pro, and for DL, my Verbatims. Unless I get some "family project," where I have to deliver 1,000 DVD's, I should be "set for life."

                     

                    With T-Y's and a reduced burn speed (wish that PrE would allow manual setting of burn speeds, and especially as blank media speeds increase), you should be way, way ahead of the game.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt