4 Replies Latest reply on Apr 6, 2013 11:17 AM by camilo umaña

    How to get consecutive numbering at the end of paragraphs?

    camilo umaña Level 1

      In a big text some paragraphs, already styled, need a consecutive numbering.

      At the beginning of the paragraph the numbering will create a mess.

       

      Tried with fake footnotes: Impossible. The text has footnotes and converting the faked ones to text is not available.

      Tried a nice script written by Jong to add/subtract a number on numbered items, but it is restricted to index situations.

       

       

      O R I G I N A L                                   R E Q U I R E D

      a. Many years ago.                    a. Many years ago. [1]

      Lucy Smith                              Lucy Smith

      b. Margaret run away.               b. Margaret run away. [2]

        • 1. Re: How to get consecutive numbering at the end of paragraphs?
          peter minneapolis Level 4

          camilo umaña wrote:

           

          In a big text some paragraphs, already styled, need a consecutive numbering.

          At the beginning of the paragraph the numbering will create a mess.

           

          Tried with fake footnotes: Impossible. The text has footnotes and converting the faked ones to text is not available.

          Tried a nice script written by Jong to add/subtract a number on numbered items, but it is restricted to index situations.

           

           

          O R I G I N A L                                   R E Q U I R E D

          a. Many years ago.                    a. Many years ago. [1]

          Lucy Smith                              Lucy Smith

          b. Margaret run away.               b. Margaret run away. [2]

           

          You could use a cross-reference, however there seems to be a bug (or is it a feature?) Insert a cross-reference to the paragraph at the end of the text, with a format that captures its autonumber, plus any ornamentation, like the square brackets in your example. So far, so good.

           

          The bug, IMO, occurs when the paragraph moves to a different position in the numbered sequence. The left autonumber adjusts correctly, but the cross-reference to it remembers its original value. For example, paragraph numbered "3" with a cross-reference to itself that appear as "3" remembers the rightmost "3" when the paragraph becomes number "4" when a numbered paragraph is inserted before it, or the autonumber becomes "2" when a paragraph before it is deleted, but the rightmost number remains the original "3." You'll need to replace the incorrect cross-reference with a new correct one. I think the cross-reference to its own paragraph's autonumber should always display the paragraph's number, not the original number.

           

          HOWEVER, if the rightmost number can be positioned at the right margin of the numbered paragraph, no matter how long or short it is, or if it wraps around to new lines, then you could use a two-column table. The left column contains the autonumbered paragraphs. The right column contains autonumbered paragraphs that use a different list. The right column's cell style should include vertical alignment bottom, so the number is always at the parallel to the wrapped lines. To move numbered paragraphs within the list, move the two columns that comprise the row, so both lists renumber as expected.

           

          [EDIT] I forgot to note that autonumbered paragraphs require some manually-entered text to make the autonumber appear. You can add spaces, or the non-joiner (Type > Insert Special Character > Other > Non-joiner.) [/EDIT]

           

          I tried a cross-reference from the table's right column to the left column's numbered paragraph, but when the row is moved to a new position in the list, the cross-reference remembers the original value, as it does  a table.

           

          HTH

           

           

          Regards,

           

           

          Peter

          _______________________

          Peter Gold

          KnowHow ProServices

           

          Message was edited by: peter at knowhowpro

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: How to get consecutive numbering at the end of paragraphs?
            camilo umaña Level 1

            Peter,

             

            Thank you for your reply.

             

            The big problem is how to automate the operation.

            Cross-reference calls to cross each entry to a numbered paragraph.

            I have 1600. It asks for 1600 man-made entries...

             

            With a find/change operation it is possible to insert a code at the end of the paragraph.

            But what code?

            If   >1<  [the first paragraph code] is inserted in all entries the result is that number,  1 will be repeated as this element is not a dynamic one.

             

            No way.

            • 3. Re: How to get consecutive numbering at the end of paragraphs?
              peter minneapolis Level 4

              Hi, Camilo:

               

              First of all,  I was not thinking clearly when I blamed ID for a cross-reference bug. It was my error. Cross-references within a document need to be updated by the author, using the Update cross-references button at the bottom of the Hyperlinks & Cross-References panel, when they're moved or their source content changes. I was thinking about the known issues with cross-references that go between ID document files, which update automatically - performance slows, and sometimes they cause crashes.

               

              Here's the replacement reply for my previous post #1:

               

              camilo umaña wrote:

               

              In a big text some paragraphs, already styled, need a consecutive numbering.

              At the beginning of the paragraph the numbering will create a mess.

               

              Tried with fake footnotes: Impossible. The text has footnotes and converting the faked ones to text is not available.

              Tried a nice script written by Jong to add/subtract a number on numbered items, but it is restricted to index situations.

               

               

              O R I G I N A L                                   R E Q U I R E D

              a. Many years ago.                    a. Many years ago. [1]

              Lucy Smith                              Lucy Smith

              b. Margaret run away.               b. Margaret run away. [2]

               

              It's not clear if the right-hand numbers are supposed to replace the left-hand numbers while keeping the same sequence, or if you want to retain the left-hand numbers. You can use cross-references to create right-hand numbers from the paragraphs auto-numbers.

               

              Insert a cross-reference to the paragraph at the end of the text, with a format that captures its autonumber, and adds any ornamentation, like the square brackets in your example.

               

              If the rightmost number must be positioned at the right margin of the numbered paragraph, no matter how long or short it is, or if it wraps around to new lines, add a right-aligned tab stop to the paragraph style, positioned at the location where you want the number to appear, and insert a tab character in the paragraph before the cross-reference.

               

              If the left hand numbers are supposed to go away, you can't change the paragraph style to a non-autonumbered style, because you need the numbers that the cross-references capture. So, you need to create a character style that's very small and uses Paper for the text color, to hide the autonumbers. If the smallest point size (IIRC, it's 2 points) leaves too much space at the left of the autonumber, you might be able to reduce it further by using a small value in the Horizontal Scale property of the Advanced Character Formats in the Character Style dialog box. Your example seems to show that the numbered paragraphs are indented, so the space occupied by the hidden autonumbers may not be a problem.

               

              If the paragraphs are rearranged in sequence, you'll need to use the Update Cross-References button at the bottom of the Hyperlinks & Cross-References panel to update the affected cross-references.

               

              I'm still not clear about numbers at the end of the paragraphs in square brackets. Are they supposed to be the same value as the auto-number at the beginning of the paragraph, except that they use a numeric display format instead of an alphabetic format?

               

              I don't know of any code that can work with a find/replace action that can capture a paragraph's autonumber and display it at a specific location. As you've seen, cross-references need to be inserted manually. You might post a query in the InDesign scripting forum to see if someone has figured this out. If there's no complete solution, you might want to ask about a script that searches for the ends of paragraphs of the autonumbered paragraph style and opens the Insert Cross-Reference dialog box.

               

              Using Quick Apply to execute the Insert Cross-References command, which opens the New Cross-References dialog box, might save some energy for doing the many manual cross-references insertions. Search Google for terms like "InDesign quick apply" without quotes. You can open Quick Apply with a keystroke shortcut - Cmd+Return on Mac. You can type abbreviated commands. I use "rt cr" without quotes for (Inse)rt cr(oss-reference). Opening Quick Apply repeats the last command that was entered.

               

              Also, if you haven't tried a Google search for phrases like "InDesign numbered list at right end of paragraph," without quotes, give it a try. There are lots of links, including one to this forum article. Perhaps there's a golden nugget among them.

               

              If you think it's important for ID to be able to place autonumbers at the ends of paragraphs, please post a formal feature request here: Wishform Eventually, some user originated feature requests are incorporated in future ID releases.

               

              HTH

               

              Regards,

               

               

              Peter

              _______________________

              Peter Gold

              KnowHow ProServices

              • 4. Re: How to get consecutive numbering at the end of paragraphs?
                camilo umaña Level 1

                Hi, Peter: Thanks again for this superb post

                It's not clear if the right-hand numbers are supposed to replace the left-hand numbers while keeping the same sequence, or if you want to retain the left-hand numbers. You can use cross-references to create right-hand numbers from the paragraphs auto-numbers.

                 

                Both identifications are required. That is the reason the right numbers are incorporated and not replacing them. Inserting consecutive numbers at the beginning of paragraphs breaks the first level of titling. Numbering is for identify these elements in another context.

                 

                If the rightmost number must be positioned at the right margin of the numbered paragraph, no matter how long or short it is, or if it wraps around to new lines, add a right-aligned tab stop to the paragraph style, positioned at the location where you want the number to appear, and insert a tab character in the paragraph before the cross-reference.

                In 1600 entries is a big job.

                 

                If the left hand numbers are supposed to go away,

                No.

                 

                If the paragraphs are rearranged in sequence, you'll need to use the Update Cross-References button at the bottom of the Hyperlinks & Cross-References panel to update the affected cross-references.

                No.

                 

                I'm still not clear about numbers at the end of the paragraphs in square brackets. Are they supposed to be the same value as the auto-number at the beginning of the paragraph, except that they use a numeric display format instead of an alphabetic format?

                It is a genealogical book. The codes at the beginning are part od different entries (a, 1, i, etc); the required right number at the end is to use in tables, trees, etc, whre the first coders are useless.

                 

                Also, if you haven't tried a Google search for phrases like "InDesign numbered list at right end of paragraph," without quotes, give it a try. There are lots of links, including one to this forum article. Perhaps there's a golden nugget among them.

                Yes, I tried. It seems an invention that in the lead times was natural.

                 

                If you think it's important for ID to be able to place autonumbers at the ends of paragraphs, please post a formal feature request here: Wishform Eventually, some user originated feature requests are incorporated in future ID releases.

                Yes, I will do.   

                 

                 

                 

                The idea behind is that if ID has a code to number paragraphs (just at the beginning) the code could applied at the end.

                Think that many lists may have two levels of identification and this idea is not nonsense. In short text is a must to avoid a new line and that extra space may damage legibility and also a severe layout.

                 

                Thanks again for your time.

                 

                Camilo