16 Replies Latest reply on Oct 24, 2017 3:25 PM by brunnjon

    Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?

    tomaugerdotcom Level 1

      Consider this simple document with 2 layers and an adjustment layer:

       

      Capture.JPG

       

      Note the eyedropper targets. They read as expected:

       

      Capture.JPG

      Now, observe what happens when I click my adjustment layer (this is a new Levels adjustment that has NOT YET BEEN TOUCHED - so there should be NO CHANGE)

       

      Capture.JPG

      It doesn't matter whether the adjustment layer or its layer mask are selected, the results are the same.

       

      Here are my eyedropper settings:

       

      Capture.JPG

       

      Proof Colors is off. I can't think of any other setting to play with.

       

      This looks like a pretty huge bug to me, and it's not something I remember from earlier versions. Does anyone know what's going on?

        • 1. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
          Level 7

          There is a known problem in CS6 with the info palette readout for adjustment layers inside groups.

          • 2. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
            tomaugerdotcom Level 1

            Giddyup Chris. Thanks for the quick reply. Any sense on where this bugfix sits on the roadmap? BTW, is there a public roadmap / bug tracking for PS? Maybe I work too much in the Open Source community and have unrealistic expectations...

            • 3. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
              Level 7

              There is no public roadmap or bug tracking.

              We're a publicly traded company... and have laws to comply with.

              • 4. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                tomaugerdotcom Level 1

                Hi Chris, I apologize, but I take exception to your tone. I was asking an innocent question with no hidden agenda.

                 

                But since you went there, what "laws" do you have to comply with that would be contravened by a bug tracker? I've logged plenty of bugs against Adobe's JIRA in the past. What makes Photoshop so different?

                • 5. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                  conroy Level 5

                  Chris Cox wrote:

                   

                  There is a known problem in CS6 with the info palette readout for adjustment layers inside groups.

                   

                  I don't see the relevance of that bug to Tom's screenshots.

                   

                  The example does not have a group.

                   

                  It shows the same (correct, in my opinion) behaviour as in CS5. When the target is one adjustment layer or its mask, the colour samplers report the before and after colours of the adjustment, ignoring anything higher in the stack. In the example, the samplers indicate that the adjustment layer is doing nothing to the pixels being sampled, which is correct.

                  • 6. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                    tomaugerdotcom Level 1

                    Thanks for adding your information! However, I do not understand how you could consider this "correct" behaviour.

                     

                    The use case is simple and ubiquitous: you set down eyedropper targets so you can monitor the colour at various sample points - either to ee how they're updating as a result of your adjustments OR to match one target area's colour to another.

                     

                    In neither of these two scenarios is it OK for a target to be reporting a colour that is NOT in fact the colour under the target! That's just an error, and will lead to errors on the part of the user as well. If I have a sample target sitting over a pixel that is White, I can't imagine any situation in which I would want that readout to be anything other than 255,255,255!

                     

                    If you can provide another use case, I'm all ears.

                    • 7. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                      conroy Level 5

                      If you want to know the colour of a pixel in the composite, and not what an adjustment layer is doing to the pixel, then target something other than a single adjustment layer or its mask. Seems simple enough to me.

                      • 8. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                        At first I kind of agreed with Tom, but on reflection in this case I think it's working as we'd expect it to...

                         

                        A lot of tools including the Eyedropper Tool have options about what to sample, but note that the Color Sampler Tool doesn't.  It's apparently sampling what's happening on the current layer and below, which in the case of an Adjustment Layer does make a good bit of sense.

                         

                        Chris muddied the water a bit by bringing up a bug that doesn't apply in this particular case, and the issue is further clouded by the fact that we know that Eyedropper Tool settings DO affect some other things that aren't obvious.

                         

                        In summary, it's working properly given the current design, and Conroy's right - as it is today you need to target the top layer if you'd like to get a reading of the overall color.

                         

                        Tom, it sounds as though you'd like a new feature where the Color Sampler Tool offers a choice of what to sample in the Options Bar (i.e., you'd like an "All Layers"  choice).  There is a separate forum for requesting new features:  http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                          tomaugerdotcom Level 1

                          Conroy, I think you're missing the point. With PS13 and the new Properties panel, the only way to modify the adjustment layer is to have that adjustment layer selected and use the Properties panel.

                           

                          So if you're trying to monitor the target color of some other element that keeps getting reset to these "false" values, you have to switch to another layer, write down those values, switch back to the adjustment layer, make the adjustments, and so forth.

                           

                          That's a silly workflow wouldn't you agree? Especially since I don't know of a viable use case where I would actually WANT to see numbers that have absolutely nothing to do with the pixel underneath my target.

                          • 10. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                            tomaugerdotcom Level 1

                            Thanks for the added clarifications Noel. Can you perhaps explain to me how the behaviour of the color sampler in the info palette is actually desirable?

                             

                            Let's look at my example again. When I am trying to make an adjustment and I'm looking at my color sampler targets, I _must_ have my adjustment layer selected. Target #1 is pointed over a white pixel. Regardless of which layer I have selected, that pixel is white. I can't imagine a scenario in which the readout should be anything other than 255,255,255. That's not a feature, that's a design mistake.

                             

                            If I want to see, in the readout, the value of the background image's pixel, then I should hide the layer that contains that white shape. Then, that pixel is no longer white, and the color sampler readout should reflect that. Makes sense.

                             

                            If you truly and honestly believe that users are interested in the color that is a result of compositing all the layers below (and including) the currently selected adjustment layer when they are plaing with the adjustment layer controls, then the UI must temporarily hide any layers above that color sampler as soon as I select the adjustment layer. This is the only correct UX design in that scenario - so that the color sampler once again reflects exactly what is "true" - namely the pixel color on the screen that it is sampling.

                             

                            And if you re-read that last paragraph you will intuitively know that that would be crazy. I mean, there's no way that a user would want to have the UI hide any layers just because he's clicked on the Adjustment Layer - he probably wants to see the adjustment in the context of the entire composition. If he wanted to hide those other layers, he'd do it himself.

                             

                            I urge you to reconsider this from the perspective of a real-world user and consider logging this as a bug. I just can't see any way that it isn't a mistake.

                            • 11. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                              Noel Carboni Level 8

                              I guess the issue is that the original implementation probably assumed people would be adding Adjustment Layers on top, then it would all be good.  I agree that the usage scenario you proposed is very reasonable.  I can also vaguely imagine things like setting up samplers to watch out for channel clipping might be a justification for the way it works now.  The bottom line is both ways would make sense.

                               

                              By the way, I just tested all the way back to Photoshop CS4.  While adjusting a Levels layer, the Color Sampler points showed the value of the current layer and below.  So the current implementation has been in force long enough that even if it were originally unintended behavior (which I doubt) it could no longer be considered even remotely a bug.  It is just the way it works.

                               

                              I really can't log it as a bug any more than you can, as I am just another user, but I do suggest writing it up, as a feature enhancement, complete with a desription of how you'd like to use it as an example.

                               

                              If Adobe would like to hire me as a forum liason I'll be happy to consider the offer. 

                               

                              -Noel

                              • 12. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                                conroy Level 5

                                Noel Carboni wrote:

                                 

                                you need to target the top layer if you'd like to get a reading of the overall color.

                                 

                                 

                                No, (at least in CS5 and CS6 on a Mac) as I said earlier, if you target any layer (or combination of layers) except for a single adjustment layer then a sampler will report the entire image composite value.

                                • 13. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                                  conroy Level 5

                                  tomaugerdotcom wrote:

                                   

                                  Conroy, I think you're missing the point. With PS13 and the new Properties panel, the only way to modify the adjustment layer is to have that adjustment layer selected and use the Properties panel.

                                   

                                  So if you're trying to monitor the target color of some other element that keeps getting reset to these "false" values, you have to switch to another layer, write down those values, switch back to the adjustment layer, make the adjustments, and so forth.

                                   

                                  That's a silly workflow wouldn't you agree? Especially since I don't know of a viable use case where I would actually WANT to see numbers that have absolutely nothing to do with the pixel underneath my target.

                                   

                                  Yes, I see your point.

                                  • 14. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                                    conroy wrote:

                                     


                                    No, (at least in CS5 and CS6 on a Mac) as I said earlier, if you target any layer (or combination of layers) except for a single adjustment layer then a sampler will report the entire image composite value.

                                     

                                    Ugh, that's not a combination that seems very logical.  Seems to me the tool really needs the option of specifying what it samples, but how would you document it's current behavior, which no doubt is expected by some?  "Legacy Combo"?

                                     

                                    -Noel

                                    • 15. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                                      conroy Level 5

                                      Hey, it's Photoshop... don't expect logical and documentation.

                                      • 16. Re: Why are my eyedropper targets changing when I select my adjustment layer?
                                        brunnjon

                                        Searched like mad for this exact problem. I had a "4 years later and this hasn't been addressed" post written, when I stumbled on the solution.

                                         

                                        In the "Info" pallet, go to the drop down menu and select "Panel Options", then choose "Always Show Composite Color Values"