8 Replies Latest reply on Apr 5, 2013 2:08 PM by Rick Gerard

    Matte For Timewarp Question

    JesseHarris Level 1

      This is probably obvious, I've worked with mattes before however not in conjunction with Timewarp.  Do I need to add a new Adjustment Layer above the Adjustment Layer the Timewarp effect is applied to, and draw the matte there?  And then select that layer as the Matte Layer in the Effects Panel?  And if so what should the layer order be?

       

      Or do I draw it the matte on the adjustment layer where the effect resides?  Then choosing that layer as the matte layer?? 

       

      Thanks in advance!

        • 1. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
          Dave LaRonde Level 6

          You must apply the precise same Time Warp settings to the matte as you do to the other layer, prerender it,  use the prerendered file, and life will be good... assuming all frame rates among the comps match, that is....

          • 2. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
            JesseHarris Level 1

            Thank you.

             

            So both Adjustment Layers have Timewarp with the same settings applied and the upper layer contains the mask correct?  And I assume the upper Adjustment Layer with the matte will have it's Matte Layer pulldown set to NONE?

             

            And I'm guessing this will be a frame-by-frame remapping of the matte?  I seem to remember an "automated" way to animate masks/mattes...  but I'm guessing this will be too complicated for that... Or?  I think I remember going to the last frame in the Timeline the matte was needed, drawing it, going back to the first frame, drawing the desired matte, then pressing the magic button and having AE interpolate the matte keyframes over time...  Was I dreaming?  Please remind me where I can find this.  Or if you're laughing out loud, let me know and I'll laugh with you!

             

            Screen Shot 2013-04-05 at 3.15.21 PM.png

             

            Thanks again!

            • 3. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
              Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              You can keyframe the masks, you can use Rotobrush, but if you are going to mask this kind of a shape and it needs to be animated you should use several masks. You want to cover the bits that don't move much with one mask, and then cover the bits that do with another. You'll be able to do the roto with much less work than trying to animate all of those points and the scene changes.

               

              For a look at how to roto by hand take a few minutes to look at Scott Squires basics of roto. He uses Commotion but the technique is exactly the same in AE.

               

              Once you get the mask animation worked out you can do a bunch of things to extract a matte that can be used for Time Warp.

              • 4. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
                Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                I think I remember going to the last frame in the Timeline the matte was needed, drawing it, going back to the first frame, drawing the desired matte, then pressing the magic button and having AE interpolate the matte keyframes over time...  Was I dreaming?

                That magic button was in Mathias Möhl Tracker2Mask script. But that is not what you want to do with your 'Bullet Time' frame. See Rick's comment above and my one in your according thread.

                • 5. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
                  JesseHarris Level 1

                  Rick Gerard wrote:

                   

                  You can keyframe the masks, you can use Rotobrush, but if you are going to mask this kind of a shape and it needs to be animated you should use several masks. You want to cover the bits that don't move much with one mask, and then cover the bits that do with another. You'll be able to do the roto with much less work than trying to animate all of those points and the scene changes.

                   

                  For a look at how to roto by hand take a few minutes to look at Scott Squires basics of roto. He uses Commotion but the technique is exactly the same in AE.

                   

                  Once you get the mask animation worked out you can do a bunch of things to extract a matte that can be used for Time Warp.

                   

                  Would these several masks you suggest reside on one Adjustment Layer placed on top of the original Timewarp layer?  Or do I need multiple Adjustment Layers, one for each mask?  What should the mode of the Adjustment Layer(s) be?  None?  Add?  Subtract?

                   

                  In the Effects Control Panel for each Timewarp application, I have the Matte Layer set to the Adjustment Layer with the corresponding matte, is this correct?  See my screenshot below.

                   

                  After viewing my (rather shaky) bullet time effect below, would you suggest keyframing masks or using the rotobrush to create the matte?  I was planning to mask the front couple and the rear couple with separate masks - does this make sense?  And sorry to repeat but would that require 2 separate Adjustment Layers?  How will interesecting masks on one Adjustment Layer be treated in Timewarp?  (You did tell me in my other thread I'd be rotoscoping - and indeed you were right!)

                   

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  And if I must create an Adjustment Layer for each matte/mask, what should the Matte Layer pulldown reflect? 

                   

                  This screen shot still has my old mask in place, but does the setup look correct to you?

                   

                  After completing the masks, I believe I would pre-render as Dave orders, correct?  Will this give me a Pre-comp?  Or should I just render out to a production codec and bring it back into the Master Comp? 

                   

                   

                  Screen Shot 2013-04-05 at 4.42.21 PM.png

                   

                  Thank you so much for your help - I know I'm asking 1,000 questions!

                  • 6. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
                    JesseHarris Level 1

                    Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                     

                    I think I remember going to the last frame in the Timeline the matte was needed, drawing it, going back to the first frame, drawing the desired matte, then pressing the magic button and having AE interpolate the matte keyframes over time...  Was I dreaming?

                    That magic button was in Mathias Möhl Tracker2Mask script. But that is not what you want to do with your 'Bullet Time' frame. See Rick's comment above and my one in your according thread.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    Thanks again Fuzzy - I realize my threads are becoming a little convoluted...  I just have some questions below regarding how the layers and masks will work.

                     

                    I haven't worked with masks inside of Timewarp.  That Tracker2Mask was pretty cool (thanks for the link) - have to remember to re-install it with my new Cloud Adobe.

                    • 7. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
                      Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                      See my comment in your Workflow and Compositing thread: 'Since Timewarp doesn't recognise any effects applied onto a layer, which is intended for a matte, you have to precompose it. In your case duplicate your sped up 'Bullet Frame' layer (which is your digital intermediate) and precompose the lower one. Open up that precomp and create a matte'.

                       

                      You can create as many masks on a layer as you want. Set them to 'None' while working on them, then set to 'Add'.

                      If you want to use Roto Brush in combination with masks, duplicate your layer out of sped up intermediate within your precomp, apply Roto Brush onto one layer and create masks on another one.

                       

                      See also this help section on masks and mattes.

                      • 8. Re: Matte For Timewarp Question
                        Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Let's talk about masks first. The first thing I would do is trim your shot to maybe 30 frames before the bullet time move and 30 frames after. You don't need to process any of the other footage. You can just cut from one to the next.

                         

                        Once you have the shot trimmed and before you do any time manipulation at all you need to generate your masks. RotoBrush works easier on footage than it does on a pre-comp. Rotobrush may work on your shot, but it may not. There are lots of unpredictable things going on in that scene that the rotobrush math may not like very much. Rendering may give you a bit better chance at pulling a matte from rotobrush.

                         

                        If you do the roto by hand then it doesn't matter. You can use a pre-comp to create your masks. As soon as you get a good roto result you will need to use the alpha of either the pre-comp or the roto brushed layer for TimeWarp. If done by hand all of your masks should be on the same layer. I usually draw my masks on a black solid set to screen to that I can keep the underlying footage clean.

                         

                        I hope this helps. The best production advice I can give anybody is to look for the easiest solution and work as much as you can with actual frames.