• Imported photo from Photoshop
• Animated its position from toes to head on the Timeline
It's a still image, correct? It doesn't move, correct? If you wish to preserve the a head-to-toes shot, why would you have had to animate position? Okay, you may have animated horizontal position, but scale and vertical position?
I'm not getting it because it sounds so straightforward.
Hey, Dave! Have not been on this forum in a while. Good to hear from you!
It is a still image, or at least it was when it was in Photoshop. I did not intend to show the head-to-toes shot in its entireity. I put it in AE to go slowly across it until the big reveal (the client's product) enters the frame at the end. Moved vertically, from bottom left corner to upper right. Did not animate scale at all. Ther is a funny voiceover that makes it clear why I would do that, but all questions of motivation aside, now that I have done it, and done quite a bit to reduce the jitteriness, it is still jittery! Did you check it out at at the Vimeo link above?
This project should just be a simple animate x position. That's it. The trick is to avoid a frame rate / pan speed stroboscopic effect.
If you first render seemed jittery then you've either hit one of the critical panning speeds or your render was to a format that would not play back smoothly (uncompressed) on a normal system. All of the rest of the work you did was completely unnecessary. You were trying to put a bandaid on something that would not heal.
What's the frame rate of the comp. 30 would be smoother than 24. I think your pan speed is right on the ragged edge of a critical speed. Try slowing down the move a bit. Also try and step through the rendered footage a frame at a time and see if there are any odd frames. If you have some you could have a disk cacke to render issue. I can't tell because I can't download your video to check it.
I hope this helps.
Please check out my article on avoiding motion judder in motion graphics. If your project is 24 or 25 fps it should take about seven seconds for something on the screen to cross the screen. Yours is a little slower than that and that could be part of the problem.
I'm not noticing any jitter on my end. How are you viewing this comp once it's rendered and what render settings are you using? A screenshot would help. Also, I don't think Drift Over Time is the effect you want to cure jitter problems. Motion blur on the other hand could help, but you should make sure you're using it correctly. Check this tutorial on using Motion blur in after effects:
Also, you can add the Warp Stabilizer effect in After Effects. There's no need to go to Premiere for that.
However, the warp stabilizer effect is predominately used for stabilizing live action clips. Since your After Effects render looks like it's made up of a smooth two keyframe animation, using Warp Stabilizer probably won't change very much.
Hey, Rick thanks for the reply! Good article. I like the stagecoach wheels analogy--I had a gut feeling it was something like that. . . . OK, I think I get it now--it's like an interference pattern, right? Where you have two different fequencies that start out together, then become increasingly out of sync until a point where they sync up again, resulting in a third frequency, which my husband the audio engineer tells me, is called the "beat frequency". So in this case, the two differing frequencies are the frame rate and the rate of the movement, producing a beat frequency that, in this case, is the jitter. Right?
The thing I like about the Drift Over Time effect is that you can set the speed of the movement in pixels per second numerically. So, it seems to me that that number and the number of the frame rate should be even multiples. So, I will change to a higher frame rate then do some math, and see if that will fix the problem.
Rick, After about a kajillion experiments, I still have that jitter problem! Latest developments:
• I recreated the comp at 60fps. That looked great--steady as a rock! But when I uploaded it to Vimeo, they converted it to 30fps and it was jittery again.
• I set up an experiment. I had the photo move -3090 in X and -600 in Y in 15 seconds with a frame rate of 30. All nice evenly divisible numbers, rendered at 30 fps, still came out jittery.• I checked for sub pixel interpolation by viewing my comp a frame at a time while zoomed in to 800% and observing the edge detail--did not see anything weird, but i am not sure what I am looking for.
I can't find how to report dropped frames in PR Pro. . .
Could I get you to take a look at "Experiment - Even Numbers" for me? This one has password protection (it's GUNN) but I have allowed downloading.
And here is the (jittery!) final product, if you want to see why I have to make that movement last so long.
thanks so much for your help!
I did a test panning over a 4.5k image texture at a similar timing as your project. I animated one comp using standard keyrames and the other comp I exported with eases to see if that would affect the movement. I then exported both comps by dragging them out of the After Effects project panel and into Adobe Media Encoder where I applied the Vimeo HD 1080p 29.97 preset. When played them off the desktop both renders exhibited what could be considered a very slight jitter. This also occurs in the vimeo playback with HD turned off and with HD turned on. If this is in fact the same problem as what you're experiencing then I would encourage you to submit a bug report. Also check the following page for more information on how to give feedback.
I hope this helps
I'm not sure if it's a bug. That's why I tried to recreate your problem and I asked if you thought it was the same issue. If you're convinced that it is, then there's no harm in submitting a bug report. I personally haven't seen this issue on the forums before, but that doesn't mean other people aren't having the same problem. Unfortunately, I think there are too many other factors at stake here to pin it solely on After Effects.
For example, I looked closely at several Vimeo videos from other users and I noticed a slight jitter on many of the videos especially when played back in HD and especially with horizontal movement. This could be due to my bandwidth and might simply be a playback issue or there could be other issues at stake. Personally I feel like the jitter is usually so subtle it doesn't bother me and I only see it when I'm looking for it. I even checked several of my own 1080p HD videos I uploaded on my vimeo plus account and I can also see some jitter, but only if I'm looking for it.
Then again, I looked at your 6 second clip and it definitely looks jittery. Does that have motion blur turned on? If so, try it again using the default settings in the Advanced panel of your Composition Settings and turn off any frame blending. I would also add ease ins and ease outs to your animation to see if that helps. How are you rendering your H.264 video files out of After Effects? Does your comp fps match the fps of your renders? Are you rendering to a production codec first and then transcoding to H.264? If so, how do these files play off of the desktop? Have you successfully rendered to other formats that don't exhibit any jitter? Also, you should never use After Effects to render H.264. If you're rendering directly to H.264 for vimeo, you should use the vimeo presets in Adobe Media Encoder.
If you've never used Adobe Media encoder to render an After Effects comp, the best way I've found is to open your comp in After Effects, right click the work area bar in the timeline and select "Trim Comp to Work Area:"
Then save your After Effects project and drag your comp into Adobe Media Encoder. Then you can drag as many different presets onto the comp as you'd like or you can create your own custom presets. When you're finished all you have to do is click Output File and tell Adobe Media Encoder where you want to save your renders. Then you can quit After Effects and press the play button in the upper right hand corner of the Queue panel in Adobe Media Encoder to start your render.
FYI, the reason why I select "Trim Comp to Work Area" first is because Adobe Media Encoder automatically has the Source Range set to render the Entire Composition. So, if you've set up your work area in After Effects and you don't trim it before your drag over your comp, you could potentially end up rendering a bunch of black frames or a long unanimated section of video. It's possible to set the Source Range to render only the Work Area in Adobe Media Encoder, but since it has to communicate with After Effects through Dynamic Link, it takes longer and you'll have to change it for every comp you want to render when it would be faster just to trim everything first in After Effects and drag all the comps over at once:
Also, I thought I'd mention that I come from a traditional animation background and most of the time I tend to embrace the jittery movement in animation because I feel like it looks more organic. In fact, I use the wiggler plug-in in After Effects all the time to add jitter, and I almost always end up tweaking the eases on keyframes in the graph editor in an attempt to do away with those perfectly smooth mechanical movements. I'm not saying that this is something you should strive for and by all means the animation in a motion-graphics advertisements like the one you've created probably should be smooth, but it's interesting to think about the affect this kind of movment has on us. For me, when I can tell that the keyframes have been interplated by a computer, I instantly feel disconnected from the animation and it becomes less visceral and authentic. If you're curious feel free to take a look at my Hand-Drawn and Organic Looks Tutorials on my blog. They cover several simple techniques for purposefuly creating jitter in After Effects animation and making it look more analog.
All aesthetics aside, After Effects should be able to create the smooth movement you're looking for without much trouble, so please get back to us with anymore information or screen shots that you think could help us help you.
Thanks, Ben. That is a lot of good info!
No, I am not convinced it is a bug at all--there is too much about AE and video in general that I just don't know.
One good thing--my client has not noticed the jitter! And, I am not going to point it out to her! The 18-35 year old European males this is intended for will probably never notice it either! It is subtle, but this one just really needs to be smooth as silk! I'd like to use this as a portfolio piece to demonstrate my new skills. Another reason I'd like to get to the bottom of this issue is it is now time for me to get back on my first animation project, where i travel up and zoom in on a tall photo of Boulder, CO. It is very jittery. Will be an interesting experiment to see if changing the movement to even multiples of the frame rate will help (did not have that infor when i created it.)
I have been adding the comp to the render queue in AE, rendering at lossless best settings. At that point, i have usually imported that file into PR where the music and voiceovers are, but as as a test, I have also dragged it straight into AME.
Yes, I am always using AME to render the final video. The AE comp and the PR project are both 30 fps. I chose the Vimeo HD 720p 29.97 preset, then changed it to 30fps, since there is no Vimeo HD 720p 30fps preset. Checked Render at Maximum Depth and Use Maximum Render Quality.
When I recreated the AE comp at 60fps, added it to AE's render queue, then took that file to AME, and rendered it at 60fps, it was smooth as silk! the problem comes in when I upload it to Vimeo, where they convert it to 30fps, and then the jitter is back. Vimeo is the means of final delivery to the client as this little video will be embedded at their company website and business Facebook page.
I did use Rick Gerard's advice to use even multiples of the frame rate (30)--I set the position keyframes at -3096 in X and -600 in Y. Altho I wonder if, rather than using the X and Y values, I need to haul out the old Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the distance of the hypotenuse that is the diagonal line from bottom left to top right of the photo! OK, Just did that and the length of the diagonal line is not an even multiple of 30. (It is 32.6907394294667.)
BUT I tried an experiment where i moved it at an even multiple of 30 in X only--still jittery, so probably not.
Traditional animation background?!? You lucky dog! When I was a little kid, it was my ambition to grow up to be an animator for Disney, even if all they let me do was draw spots on the Dalmatians! I will definitely check out your blog.
Thanks for all your help so far, and if you have any further insight, i'd appreciate it. I really want to get to the bottom of this problem! Failing that, I will submit a bug report.
That could be your problem. 30fps is not a video frame rate. It can be confusing but usually when it says 30fps it means 29.97 because 29.97 is a standard video frame rate. If part of your footage was at 30fps and then got changed to 29.97 or vice versa there could cause problems later on. In After Effects I like to work at progressive frame rates like 24 and 30 because it shows the whole frames. However whenever I render I always remember to click "best settings" and change 24 to 23.976 and 30 to 29.97 because those are the standard video frame rates in North America. My advice is to go back and render everything out at 29.976 and leave the Vimeo HD 720p 29.976 preset as it is. Normally you shouldn't have to change those. Also when vimeo converted your 60fps clip to 30fps it actually converted it to 29.976. I don't think pythagorean theorem or the X,Y value settings are your problem. If you collect the files and upload the project, I might be able to have a better look at the issue.
OK, Ben, I went to AE where I had originally created the comp at 30fps, added it to the Render Queue, changed the frame rate to 29.97 there, then imprted that .mov file into Premier and dragged the PR file over to AME, applied the Vimeo HD 720p 29.97 preset and did not change anything. The result was. . . still jittery!
Hmmm, the frame rate of my PR sequence is 30. Maybe i should change that to 29.97? Let's see what happens when I do. . . No, although the preset I used is DSLR30, the description says it is actually 29.97, so I guess that is not it.
Will collect & upload in the morning. Where should I upload it?
thanks again for all your help.
Ben, I took a very careful look at your two videos and the slight judder you see is a result of stroboscopic effects caused by movement and frame rate. No bug, just a problem that has plagued film makers since they started panning a movie camera. There's a whole section in two of my cinematographer handbooks about critical panning speeds with focal length, panning speed and frame rate tables. The lower the frame rate the more prevalent the problem.
Carol, I downloaded your test video and looked at it a frame at a time. If you check your MP4 file you'll see that each frame advances by in even increments. I'm not seeing any strobbing at 30 fps or if I change the playback to 29.97 but at 24 there is a definite motion judder caused by the interaction of the frame rate, the motion on the screen and the refresh rate of my monitor. If I change the refresh rate of the monitor from 60HZ to 75HZ I get a different strobbing effect at 24 fps.
Sometimes the Vimeo player will skip a frame or two on the first play. There may be a bug there, but the second sample you rendered plays back perfectly after downloading at it's native 30 fps with the monitor refresh rate set to 60HZ.
Don't you just love motion graphics. Slow is always harder to pull of than fast. Just wait until you try and do something perfect for an IMAX screen. That's another kettle of fish.
Ben, i told you I'd need an email address to send you the files by YouSendIt, but I forgot, i don't. I can give you the link. Will do that shortly.
hey Rick, where ya been? I did check that mp4 frame by frame and was not sure if I did not see anything wrong, or if I just did not know what I was looking for.
OK, then, I guess making the photo move in even increments of 30 is actually working. I am going to go back to my first motion graphics project (looking back now, I think, boy, was that ambitious! and see if I can't smooth out the jitteriness in that slow travel up/zoom in on a very tall photo of Boulder.) I thought I had noticed that sometimes on Vimeo (and on my monitor, too?) it does play more jittery the first time around.
Actually, I do love motion graphics! Learning something new after all these years has been very interesting--if frustrating! Of course, print reproduction has its own bugaboos, but this reminds me of my early years as a graphic artist at TV stations--I'd do a beautiful piece of artwork (paper literally cut & pasted, with transfer lettering) take a good slide of it, and then when it was broadcast, the color was different on every TV!
Here are the collected project files. If you would be so kind as to check them out, I would appreciate it. If you see that I am doing anything wrong, please let me know.
Rick, did you see this? From Apr 14, 2013 2:24 PM
And just to see if this would make any difference, I had tthe entire thing zip across the frame in less than the recommended 7 seconds. I made it 6 seconds ahd had it move in even multiples of 30 in X and Y. Still jittery!
Password at Vimeo: GUNN
Now that you mentioned the thing about it being less jittery on repeated playings at Vimeo, I notice that the jitteriness happens at different places each time--maybe this is an issue i should take up with Vimeo.
I'm beginning to think I may have the best result I can hope for given the reproduction restraints.
My advice is to go back and render everything out at 29.976 and leave the Vimeo HD 720p 29.976 preset as it is. Normally you shouldn't have to change those. Also when vimeo converted your 60fps clip to 30fps it actually converted it to 29.976...
Oops, you gotta watch them decimal fractions! From the statement above, I'm not sure if you actually mean 29.97 or 23.976. 29.976 doesn't exist!
If only the Powers That Be in NTSC-Land could have made arrangements to make HD video actually 30 and 60 fps.
How tough could it be to incorporate a gizmo to drop a frame every now and then into an HD-to-SD converter so Aunt Minnie could still use her 27-inch Sony from the 80's?
Carol, the 64022083 video is the one that I downloaded and checked. The best place to check for smooth playback is with your media player. Even multiples of the frame rate don't guarantee a smooth playback but it's a good place to start. There's actually a fairly large speed range that should work, it's just when you start getting close to the retinal retention, screen refresh rate, frame rate critical combination that things start jittering.
The jittery playback on Vimeo, especially if the jitter comes at different times in the shot, probably comes from a combination of playback errors. Playing videos off any streaming source is subject to hiccups now and then. GOP compression doesn't help either. Both Vimeo's player and YouTube's player are quite good but they suffer from the same problem of serving up an occasional random frame rate and then skipping a GOP segment to catch up. The more system resources you have and the faster your connection the better.
The real trick with this kind of animation and with hiding critical panning speed problems is to have more than one plane moving. That's hard to do with stills but if you put a graphic in front of the Photo that traveled at a different speed the brain would be tricked into thinking things are smoother. The same thing happens with a film camera shooting big panorama shot. Put something in the shot like a car that you can track and the brain thinks that the whole shot is working. Leave out the car and the shot becomes impossible to watch without getting a headache.
See, Dave, tht is what I don't get in the first place--what the freak is it with these freaking decimal places?!?! I will ask you to explain it to me another time. Right now, I'll just go wtih it is a legacy from long time ago, otherwise trying to cram that in with all this other new info that is whirling around in my brain like a blender, my brain might explode!
OK, I will just check it out on my player and blame Vimeo for the rest.
I think i know what you mean by having more than 1 plane moving at a time. In my other jittery photo animation (Boulder), when i have text flying in as I zoom up, it seems to be not so jittery.
OK! I think we can mark this one "SOLVED (within reproduction constraints)"! Lessons learned: do the animations at 30 fps, with movement in even multiples of 30, then render at 29.97.
Thanks so much! You guys (Ben, Dave, Rick) have been unbelievably helpful!!
Moving on to the next project. Will you guys be hearing from me with questions on that one? Oh, count on it!
Wait, before I move on, let me ask you what you thought of the finished product:
When I sent it to some advanced screeners, I included this disclaimer:
"At first glance, you might think this would go against my every feminist instinct, objectifying the female body, etc, but by the end I think (hope!) you will get the idea that it is more a spoof of that kind of thing. Plus I think the photo is really tasteful and pretty. Of course I get the best of both worlds because every man who walked by my computer while I was working on it was immediately sucked in--they were powerless to look away!
I don't know how something like this would fly here in the puritanical U.S., although I think younger people would be more receptive to it. We are hoping it will go viral in Switzerland, keeping in mind that the #1 quality in a video that makes it go viral is sexiness, then surprise and humor--I think we have all of that!"
Please let me know what you thought of it. Did you think it was funny? tasteful or tacky? think it will sell sleep plugs to 18-30 year old males in Switzerland? (which is all i care about nayway!)