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    Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...

    tclark513 Community Member

      In videos showing the next version of Premiere, transitions take up over 90% of the cut point!  Please, Please tell me that you can easily grab the cut point with the mouse even though the transition is there!!  If you have to select above or below the transition that is going to be a big problem and a major PITA!  After all the complaints from CS6 about using the mouse in the timeline I really hope you can select the cut point from anywhere "until" you actually select the transition!

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
          tclark513 Community Member

          Kevin, can you lend any insight?

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
            John T Smith MVP

            >Please tell me

             

            You will most likely have to wait until the new version is actually released and people can buy and test... unless someone from Adobe stops by to answer your question

             

            May 6 ??? http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-cs7-next-release-coming-out.html

            -BUT... this is for the official annoucement, not physical availability

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

              tclark513 wrote:

               

              In videos showing the next version of Premiere, transitions take up over 90% of the cut point!  Please, Please tell me that you can easily grab the cut point with the mouse even though the transition is there!!

               

              Yes, you can grab the edit point with the Selection tool, or any of the trim tools. Just click above or below the transition with the Selection or trim tool. If you have linked audio, it might be even easier to select the edit point that way.

               

              Moving the cursor a bit to the left or right, and above the transition, there is a small area to select the clip rather than the edit point.

               

              tclark513 wrote:

               

              If you have to select above or below the transition that is going to be a big problem and a major PITA! 

               

              Honestly, it's neither a big problem or a PITA. The small area above and below the transition icon is actually key to selecting the edit point, or selecting the clip, depending on where the cursor is. Don't worry, it is easily selectable, IMHO.

               

              tclark513 wrote:

               

              After all the complaints from CS6 about using the mouse in the timeline...

               

              Actually, using the mouse in the Timeline is much, much improved. It used to frustrate me, as well. Now, I think it works just as expected. The area to grab the edit point is much smaller, so you can select clips, even when you're zoomed out pretty far.

               

              tclark513 wrote:

               

              I really hope you can select the cut point from anywhere "until" you actually select the transition!

               

              • If you click on the transition, you will select the transition.
              • If you click above or below the transition on the edit point, you will select the edit. This allows you to trim with the transition in place.
              • If you click above or below the transition to the left or right of the edit point, you will select the clip.

               

              I hope that clears things up.

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

                Instead of decreasing the size of transition they added new feature - Ripple Trim to Playhead:

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                  tclark513 Community Member

                  Honestly, it's neither a big problem or a PITA. The small area above and below the transition icon is actually key to selecting the edit point, or selecting the clip, depending on where the cursor is. Don't worry, it is easily selectable

                  Thanks Kevin for your response but this is what scares me.

                  How can you select the little areas above or below the transition if you are zoomed out?

                  If that is key it looks almost impossible to select if not zoomed in.

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                    Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

                     

                    Instead of decreasing the size of transition they added new feature - Ripple Trim to Playhead:

                     

                    Ripple Trim to Playhead came in with Premiere Pro CS6. The ability to do that with a trnasition applied is the new behavior in Premiere Pro Next.

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                      shooternz Community Member

                      Ripple Trim to Playhead came in with Premiere Pro CS6. The ability to do that with a trnasition applied is the new behavior in Premiere Pro Next.

                       

                      Yes. My favourite edit method and I have built and modified my edit practice around using it in its various modes since its inception..

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                        Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                        tclark513 wrote:

                         

                        Thanks Kevin for your response but this is what scares me.

                        How can you select the little areas above or below the transition if you are zoomed out?

                        If that is key it looks almost impossible to select if not zoomed in.

                         

                        To select the clip when zoomed out, it's of course easier to select the clip in the middle, the area without the transition. However, you can zoom out pretty far and still select, or trim a clip, much more than CS6.

                         

                        Again, if you place your cursor anywhere near the top or bottom of the transition, you can grab the edit point with the Selection tool, or any trim tool. You just slide your cursor vertically a bit and the tool changes easily.

                         

                        Trust me, mouse selection has been fixed and is really nice in Premiere Pro Next.

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                          tclark513 Community Member

                          Kevin Monahan wrote:

                           

                          tclark513 wrote:

                           

                          Thanks Kevin for your response but this is what scares me.

                          How can you select the little areas above or below the transition if you are zoomed out?

                          If that is key it looks almost impossible to select if not zoomed in.

                           

                          To select the clip when zoomed out, it's of course easier to select the clip in the middle, the area without the transition. However, you can zoom out pretty far and still select, or trim a clip, much more than CS6.

                           

                          Again, if you place your cursor anywhere near the top or bottom of the transition, you can grab the edit point with the Selection tool, or any trim tool. You just slide your cursor vertically a bit and the tool changes easily.

                           

                          Trust me, mouse selection has been fixed and is really nice in Premiere Pro Next.

                          Again, I appreciate your response Kevin.  I hope you are right! :-)  Thanks!

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                            tclark513 wrote:

                             

                            Again, I appreciate your response Kevin.  I hope you are right! :-)  Thanks!

                             

                            I do believe we have gotten it right. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                              tclark513 Community Member

                              Kevin Monahan wrote:

                               

                              tclark513 wrote:

                               

                              Again, I appreciate your response Kevin.  I hope you are right! :-)  Thanks!

                               

                              I do believe we have gotten it right. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

                              When do you think I will get to try it out?

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                J. Simon Community Member

                                Actually, using the mouse in the Timeline is much, much improved.

                                 

                                Man, I don't think it's possible to overstate how much I disagree with that statement.  As a long time combo editor (right hand mouse, left hand keyboard), what Adobe did in CS6 has without a shadow of a doubt made some aspect of editing more difficult.  Nothing we do with the mouse in the sequence has been made easier or improved, not even a little.  It's either the same, or worse.

                                 

                                1. The timeline used to scroll at a usable speed when the mouse pointer was placed over the horizontal scroll bar.  Now that operation zooms the sequence, and we're left with a maddeningly slow mouse wheel scroll speed.  This is probably the one operation I perform in PP more often than any other, and it SUCKS in CS6.

                                 

                                2. The ability to select edit points was much requested, but I don't need it, and having an edit point remain selected after I perform an operation just adds another mouse click to deselect.

                                 

                                3. We have a special tool for rolling edits (N), we don't need that as an 'option' using the normal Selection tool (V).  This too adds to the difficulty of making ripple edits with the mouse.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                  tclark513 Community Member

                                  Jim Simon wrote:

                                   

                                  Actually, using the mouse in the Timeline is much, much improved.

                                   

                                  Man, I don't think it's possible to overstate how much I disagree with that statement.  As a long time combo editor (right hand mouse, left hand keyboard), what Adobe did in CS6 has without a shadow of a doubt made some aspect of editing more difficult.  Nothing we do with the mouse in the sequence has been made easier or improved, not even a little.  It's either the same, or worse.

                                   

                                  1. The timeline used to scroll at a usable speed when the mouse pointer was placed over the horizontal scroll bar.  Now that operation zooms the sequence, and we're left with a maddeningly slow mouse wheel scroll speed.  This is probably the one operation I perform in PP more often than any other, and it SUCKS in CS6.

                                   

                                  2. The ability to select edit points was much requested, but I don't need it, and having an edit point remain selected after I perform an operation just adds another mouse click to deselect.

                                   

                                  3. We have a special tool for rolling edits (N), we don't need that as an 'option' using the normal Selection tool (V).  This too adds to the difficulty of making ripple edits with the mouse.

                                  Actually I think he is referring to CS "next" as being much, much improved.  Lets hope he is right because I am with you, CS6 is awful when it comes to time line editing with the mouse.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                    J. Simon Community Member

                                    Here's hoping...

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                      tclark513 Community Member

                                      Here's a quote from an early review of Premiere Pro Next...

                                       

                                      "A few other notable changes include the size of transition handles – they now occupy about 80% of the clip’s width. It certainly makes it easier to adjust them, although finding an edit point with a mouse has become a bit harder."

                                       

                                      Not looking good.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                        Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                        Jim Simon wrote:

                                         

                                        Actually, using the mouse in the Timeline is much, much improved.

                                         

                                        Man, I don't think it's possible to overstate how much I disagree with that statement. 

                                         

                                        I'm speaking about improvements to Premiere Pro Next over Premiere Pro CS6. I think we addressed a lot of the concerns that you complain about (except to "just turn it off").

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                          Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                          tclark513 wrote:

                                           

                                          Actually I think he is referring to CS "next" as being much, much improved.  Lets hope he is right because I am with you, CS6 is awful when it comes to time line editing with the mouse.

                                          Yes, Premiere Pro Next is what I'm referring to.

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                            tclark513 wrote:

                                             

                                            Here's a quote from an early review of Premiere Pro Next...

                                             

                                            "A few other notable changes include the size of transition handles – they now occupy about 80% of the clip’s width. It certainly makes it easier to adjust them, although finding an edit point with a mouse has become a bit harder."

                                             

                                            Not looking good.

                                             

                                            Do you have a link for that review?

                                             

                                            I don't think it's much harder to select an edit point, if at all. In CS6, and earlier, you had to click below the transition. In Premiere Pro Next, you can click above or below the tranistion even when zoomed out.

                                             

                                            I'm not sure how sensitive you might be to this change, but I don't see it as a big deal. I find the advantages you get, like ripple trim to playhead with transitions intact, better visibility, and easier adjustment to be nice additions.

                                            • 20. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                              J. Simon Community Member

                                              I think we addressed a lot of the concerns that you complain about

                                               

                                              Encouraging, but I hope you'll forgive my lack of enthusiasm until I've used it personally.  I've just always been a "show me, don't tell me" kind of guy.  (Used to drive my teachers nuts!)

                                              • 21. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                Jim Simon wrote:

                                                 

                                                I think we addressed a lot of the concerns that you complain about

                                                 

                                                Encouraging, but I hope you'll forgive my lack of enthusiasm until I've used it personally.  I've just always been a "show me, don't tell me" kind of guy.  (Used to drive my teachers nuts!)

                                                 

                                                I hear you. The proof is in the pudding. Thanks for the link too.

                                                • 22. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                  shooternz Community Member

                                                  I've just always been a "show me, don't tell me" kind of guy.  (Used to drive my teachers nuts!)

                                                   

                                                  I thought you were a read the manual guy not a show me how...!  "teach a man to fish" etc..

                                                  • 23. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                    J. Simon Community Member

                                                    Yeah.  If you want to teach me to fish, don't just 'tell' me about it...actually take me fishing.

                                                     

                                                    That's the purpose the manual serves, it's Adobe taking us on a "fishing trip" through the details of their software.

                                                    • 24. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                      tclark513 Community Member

                                                      Jim Simon wrote:

                                                       

                                                      http://www.creativeimpatience.com/nab-special-release-premiere-pro/

                                                      Thanks!  I couldn't even remember where I saw that.

                                                      • 25. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                        the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                        Jim,

                                                         

                                                        Methinks that you just want a fishing trip...

                                                         

                                                        Hunt

                                                        • 27. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                          walczakb Community Member

                                                          Since my review was mentioned in this thread, let me state that I absolutely agree with Jim Simon. Having been a "hybrid" editor for about a decade or so, I found some "improvements" (as opposed to real improvements which were indeed many) in CS6 making me abandon the mouse more often, looking for less frustrating solutions - thank you for ripple trim edit shortcuts. This might be good in the end, but I repeatedly stated my opinion about the fact that editing with a mouse became harder and more annoying in CS6. I proposed several solutions to this problem, and whether they will or will not be implemented - we shall see.

                                                           

                                                          The problem is that CS5 (and older) allowed for less precise (= faster) mouse operations, and the benefits of ctrl always turning on the ripple mode without the roll trim, were for me tremendous. It made me choose Premiere over FCP, and I constantly cursed FCP for its clunkiness, when I had to use it. Right now, it's gone. I have to be more precise (= slower) to perform operations which once were very fast. The simplicity of this certain editing mode has been lost.

                                                           

                                                          Regardless of how much I love Premiere, this issue has been the source of quite a few frustrations for me. You might disagree, but this is my - and as you can see not solely mine - experience. You might choose to ignore it, but you can't deny it and make me believe that something became better, when in my experience it hasn't. If you're really listening, then please listen, and respect my opinion for what it is, not for what you would like it to be.

                                                           

                                                          OK, enough venting. I already wrote too much, I think. You guys do great job with Premiere, and I hope to see more progress with this NLE, which would free us from the one and only valid style of editing, and embrace the variety of workflows that are possible, and suit as many people's needs as possible.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks for your time.

                                                          • 28. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                            J. Simon Community Member

                                                            The problem is that CS5 (and older) allowed for less precise (= faster) mouse operations, and the benefits of ctrl always turning on the ripple mode without the roll trim, were for me tremendous.

                                                             

                                                            THANK YOU!

                                                            • 29. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                              walczakb wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Since my review was mentioned in this thread, let me state that I absolutely agree with Jim Simon. Having been a "hybrid" editor for about a decade or so, I found some "improvements" (as opposed to real improvements which were indeed many) in CS6 making me abandon the mouse more often, looking for less frustrating solutions - thank you for ripple trim edit shortcuts.

                                                               

                                                              I do agree with you guys in that mouse trimming in Premiere Pro CS6 could be frustrating, especially at certain zoom levels. I think that particular thing has been addressed in Premiere Pro Next. It might not satisfy you completely in the upcoming version, but I'd love to hear about how you think it could be improved.

                                                               

                                                              walczakb wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I proposed several solutions to this problem, and whether they will or will not be implemented - we shall see.

                                                               

                                                              So you wrote some feature requests for improved Timeline trimming? Thanks for that.

                                                               

                                                              walczakb wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I have to be more precise (= slower) to perform operations which once were very fast. The simplicity of this certain editing mode has been lost.

                                                               

                                                              Yes, it does take a bit more effort for Timeline trimming in CS6, and for sure your point is valid. At the same time, it opens up new possibilities for keyboard driven editors.

                                                               

                                                              walczakb wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Regardless of how much I love Premiere, this issue has been the source of quite a few frustrations for me. You might disagree, but this is my - and as you can see not solely mine - experience. You might choose to ignore it, but you can't deny it and make me believe that something became better, when in my experience it hasn't. If you're really listening, then please listen, and respect my opinion for what it is, not for what you would like it to be.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              By all means, open up the dialogue. Continue to file feature requests for whatever you think is best. I wish there was a better way to show that we're listening, but trust me, we are listening.

                                                               

                                                              walczakb wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I hope to see more progress with this NLE, which would free us from the one and only valid style of editing, and embrace the variety of workflows that are possible, and suit as many people's needs as possible.

                                                               

                                                              Thanks for your time.

                                                               

                                                              Absolutely. And thank you!

                                                              • 30. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                tclark513 Community Member

                                                                Yes, it does take a bit more effort for Timeline trimming in CS6, and for sure your point is valid. At the same time, it opens up new possibilities for keyboard driven editors.

                                                                 

                                                                Why are they more important?  Why not have both options?

                                                                • 31. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                                                  Why not have both options?

                                                                   

                                                                  That's why I want a General Preference labeled Allow Edit Point Selection.  Let us that don't use it, for whom it gets in the way, turn it off.  Then we all win.

                                                                  • 32. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                    walczakb Community Member

                                                                    Thanks everyone. I promised myself some time ago to never post a negative review without offering the way it should be fixed, preferably even before I post about the problem publicly.

                                                                     

                                                                    A few months ago I submitted the proposal to create the "modes" in Premiere Pro, where the user could select elements of the timeline which he/she could interact with. Not only we could then turn off the edit point selection, but we could also avoid clip selection if we wanted to only interact with keyframes, etc. All with assignable keyboard shortcuts and presets.

                                                                     

                                                                    If we then offer sensible defaults (CS6, CS5 etc.), then the beginning user has some base to work with, and the more experienced user can tailor his workflow to his needs at a given moment. It goes a bit further than just a General Preference which Jim proposed, but I think Preference window is already pretty intimidating, and moving it somewhere else might be a better idea.

                                                                     

                                                                    I have had my hands on CS Next for some time, and I am aware of how things are going. I will also grant you that you are indeed listening, and some feature requests were honored, for which I am very grateful. I am going to keep challenging you to keep improving the NLE that I hold dear

                                                                    • 33. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                      tclark513 Community Member

                                                                      walczakb wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks everyone. I promised myself some time ago to never post a negative review without offering the way it should be fixed, preferably even before I post about the problem publicly.

                                                                       

                                                                      A few months ago I submitted the proposal to create the "modes" in Premiere Pro, where the user could select elements of the timeline which he/she could interact with. Not only we could then turn off the edit point selection, but we could also avoid clip selection if we wanted to only interact with keyframes, etc. All with assignable keyboard shortcuts and presets.

                                                                       

                                                                      If we then offer sensible defaults (CS6, CS5 etc.), then the beginning user has some base to work with, and the more experienced user can tailor his workflow to his needs at a given moment. It goes a bit further than just a General Preference which Jim proposed, but I think Preference window is already pretty intimidating, and moving it somewhere else might be a better idea.

                                                                       

                                                                      I have had my hands on CS Next for some time, and I am aware of how things are going. I will also grant you that you are indeed listening, and some feature requests were honored, for which I am very grateful. I am going to keep challenging you to keep improving the NLE that I hold dear

                                                                      In your opinion do you find the timeline mouse trimming in "next" much improved over cs6?  How much improved?

                                                                      • 34. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                        Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                                                                        As a mouse person and without going into much detail mouse trimming on the timeline has improved a lot.
                                                                        The weird/sticky icon behavior has gone.

                                                                        • 35. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                          Fuzzy Barsik Community Member

                                                                          I thought you're a cat person...

                                                                          • 36. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                            UlfLaursen Community Member

                                                                            ...me too

                                                                             

                                                                            Ulf

                                                                            • 37. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                              tclark513 Community Member

                                                                              How are all these peolpe getting the new release? :-)

                                                                              • 38. Re: Premiere Pro CS7 Transitions...
                                                                                Jeff Bellune ACP

                                                                                They may not have the new release -- they may just have had a chance to play with it at an Adobe demo.  Of course, the people who run the demos and people who have to develop plug-ins and people who will be writing media reviews of the new Pr and so on probably do have access to an advance copy.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Jeff

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