9 Replies Latest reply on Apr 25, 2013 5:12 PM by Ellis home

    Formatting a book in Hindi

    Ellis home Level 4

      I’m in the process of formatting a book in Hindi. I’m getting the translation in Mangal font plain text. The original version in English has bold, italics and bolditalics. I’ve noticed that ID has only Mangal Regular (using Windows, CS6 8.0.1). Is there Mangal in bold, italics and bolditalics? I found out Adobe has a Devaganari font with all the variations. How different is that from Mangal?

        • 1. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
          MW Design Level 4

          dunno about the font substitute. linotype has the various weight varients. that's who licensed them to microsoft.

           

          mike

          • 2. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
            Ellis home Level 4

            Thanks for replying. I'm learning as I go with this formatting. All kinds of fun! My first test got a negative from the translator saying text was garbled and with errors. Doing a little research I adjusted the Paragraph settings from Adobe Paragraph Composer to Adobe World-Ready Paragraph Composer and I noticed a difference right away. Hopefully I'll get better results now. Still puzzled why ID has only Mangal Regular and not bold, italic and bold italic. The translator is sending me those variations in his document.

            • 3. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
              MW Design Level 4

              a couple things. one, if neither of you have the other styles installed then that might happen. if just the translator is using word and they do not have bold installed, word will make a faux bold that id won't use.

               

              mike

              • 4. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
                Ellis home Level 4

                Actually, I have sent the translator a format so his translation will be  in plain text and I do all the formatting here. But he sent me a PDF with a sample where I noticed he had bold, italics and bolditalics. Regarding the garble text it had to do more with the characters itself, but by changing to World-Ready Paragraph Composer I think it will be better. I'm wondering if my PFD Export settings for printing should be the same I use for regular English books. Do you know?

                • 5. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
                  MW Design Level 4

                  I suppose the pdf export depends on what your settings are...but as long as the fonts are embedded or embedded subsets you are fine. If ever in doubt, you can always remove the font from your system temporarily and then open the pdf. I have done Farsi and there is no special things to do.

                   

                  Anyway, if you want/need the font varients, I think you can find them easy enough with Google.

                   

                  take care, Mike

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                  • 6. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
                    Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Actually, I have sent the translator a format so his translation will be  in plain text and I do all the formatting here. But he sent me a PDF with a sample where I noticed he had bold, italics and bolditalics.

                     

                    As Mike already pointed out, MS Word is happy to add a thin stroke around letters to fake a bold, and to tilt letters to fake an italic. That is why your translator's sample had bold and italics - because Word was faking it. If you are placing text from Word, there are ways to convert the fake-bolding and fake-italics to something you can use in ID - assuming that you are working in a font that has support for same.

                     

                    My experience of Devanagari typesetting is not wide, but I am suprised to hear that italics are being used. The proper term here would be "obliques" for characters that have a lean to 'em. The term "italics" should, properly speaking, be reserved for "fonts that have an oblique special form that looks like the handwriting of Italian rich people from many hundreds of years ago." So nothing from the subcontinent should have "italics" applied, and I would raise an eyebrow at the use of obliques in Hindi anyways. But it may be totally normal to apply oblique in Hindi; it's not a language where I feel like I really understand the typographical standards.

                     

                    FWIW, I can tell you that Mangal is a super-generic sans that I would never use for a book, as it was designed with reading on screens in mind, IIRC. It's ultra-bland. And, just like in Latin script, well-typeset books are not set in super-bland sans fonts designed to be legible onscreen at small font sizes. 

                    • 7. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
                      Ellis home Level 4

                      Thanks for the input Joel. Yes, I noticed that in word you can get the bold/italics as you wish! To be honest, when I received the first draft from the translator in Mangal and placed it in ID, I was happy to find that it was part of the font list. I already found Mangal bold, so at least I can play with those two. And for titles/subtitles once you go above 14 the regular Mangal becomes a nice thick type. The idea of the oblique is interesting. Maybe I'll give the Skew (false italic) that ID offers a try. As an alternative maybe I'll check the Devaganari offered by Adobe which has all variants. Are you familiar with that one? 

                      • 8. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
                        Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        And for titles/subtitles once you go above 14 the regular Mangal becomes a nice thick type.

                         

                        Which means, accordingly, that it's too heavy at 11 for body type. I'm sure you already know this when you're looking at a corresponding design issue in Latin script, but it may not be obvious when you're looking at a writing system with which you don't have a lifetime of experience.

                         

                        The idea of the oblique is interesting. Maybe I'll give the Skew (false italic) that ID offers a try.

                        If I knew Hindi typesetting better, I might advise against that. A good oblique takes a lot of work. Just tilting it with the Skew function looks cheap to me, in any language. (Not true - anything in a geometric sans, in any language, can often survive a skew without immediately looking bad to me. But try applying skew to Myriad Pro, and compare it to its italic set.)

                         

                        maybe I'll check the Devaganari offered by Adobe which has all variants. Are you familiar with that one?

                        As someone who rarely handles Latin script, I've been watching Adobe's type development with great interest. I've also been showing it to my typographically-inclined translators and fellow DTP wonks. And the response is... usually not completely positive. My Hindi/Urdu guy liked Adobe Devanagari a lot, but had a number of quibbles about how thus-and-so glyph shape diverged from tradition in a displeasing way. But he liked it, though.

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                        • 9. Re: Formatting a book in Hindi
                          Ellis home Level 4

                          Now I'm in the hunt for other fonts that will give me a good looking book. I found Arial Unicode MS which looks a little more stylish than Mangal. There're a few others out there that to my untrained eyes look like serifs. Thanks for putting me in the right direction.