10 Replies Latest reply: Apr 27, 2013 4:00 PM by AttilaHan RSS

    3D LUT files ...

    AttilaHan Community Member

      As a newcomer to color grading, I would like to ask about the difference between .look files and .icc files. As far as I understand .look files contain 3d luts and .icc profile files also contain those luts. What is the difference between these two file types? Thanks.

        • 1. Re: 3D LUT files ...
          c.pfaffenbichler Community Member

          I think 3D LUTs are only RGB to RGB, whereas icc profiles can allocate an actual position in the profile connection space to the value-combinations in RGB, CMYK (and even images with more channels) through LUTs or matrices.

          Also icc profiles can contain data on paper color, GCR, TAC, render intents, …

          • 2. Re: 3D LUT files ...
            Chris Cox Adobe Employee

            ICC profiles are a superset of what 3DLUT files can do.

             

            3DLUT files are non-standardized (open to interpretation mistakes), handle RGB only, and apply only to the specific colorspace they were designed for (which is usually undocumented).  3DLUT files are common in video and film workflows, where there are some tools to create them.

             

             

            ICC profiles are an ISO standard.

            ICC profiles can handle RGB, CMYK, Grayscale, and other color models.

            Because ICC profiles can do LAB to LAB mappings in abstract profiles, they can be used to provide accurate color mappings for any color model and colorspace.

            ICC profiles are common outside of video and film, but the tools to create them are still sort of specialized.  There are plenty of tools to create display and print profiles, but not as many to create devicelink and abstract profiles.

            • 3. Re: 3D LUT files ...
              AttilaHan Community Member

              Thanks a lot c.pfaffenbichler and Chris ...


              It is more clear now ...

              There are many file types for 3DLUTs but as far as I can see SpeedGrade can create all of them. I'm not interested in video, but I think that I can use SpeedGrade as a 3DLUT creator for my photographic purposes.


              I, especially, would like to learn more about abstract profiles.

              Could you give me a book advise about color theory for studying comprehensively?

              I'm reading a book titled "Color Imaging" now, but I'm not sure whether or not it is a good choice.

              • 4. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                There are no good books on abstract profiles.  Most books just repeat the spec: they're a mapping of LAB values to LAB values (basically any color to any other color).

                 

                Color Theory - that covers a wide range of topics from art education to paint mixing, human vision, physics, image processing, and on and on and on.  It also occupies about 3 shelves in my library.

                If you give us more about your background and what you're trying to do, perhaps we can suggest some appropriate books and resources.

                • 5. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                  AttilaHan Community Member

                  Color Theory - that covers a wide range of topics from art education to paint mixing, human vision, physics, image processing, and on and on and on.  It also occupies about 3 shelves in my library.

                  If you give us more about your background and what you're trying to do, perhaps we can suggest some appropriate books and resources.

                   

                  The subjects I've studied so far are radiometry, photometry, human vision, CIE XYZ, color models derived from CIEXYZ, modern approaches to color models and a little bit about color management ... I've studied them mainly from internet sources so far and I think that I need to understand them and their transitions more solidly and in a more systematic way.

                  • 6. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                    AttilaHan Community Member

                    Chris Cox wrote:

                     

                    There are no good books on abstract profiles.  Most books just repeat the spec: they're a mapping of LAB values to LAB values (basically any color to any other color).

                     

                    Is there any difference between using abstract profiles for RGB files and LAB files?

                    • 7. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                      Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                      Unfortunately, typical color grading in the film and video industries ignores all of that.  They work in RGB (and whichever colorspace/encoding that project happens to be in) and not calibrated or CIE related color.

                       

                      Basic references for the science would be Color Science by Wyszecki and Stiles (not an easy read), Reproduction of Color by Hunt, and Color Appearance Models by Fairchild.

                       

                      Basic references for the methods used in the film/video industry would be The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction by Hullfish, and Color Correction for Video by Hullfish and Fowler.  After that it tends to be a lot of applicaiton specific tutorials.

                       

                      For the future of the film industry you can take a look at http://www.oscars.org/science-technology/council/projects/aces.html  (it's still being adopted and debugged, and brings the film industry up to where the print industry was in 1992).

                       

                      Again, knowing what you're trying to do might help us make more useful suggestions.

                      • 8. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                        AttilaHan Community Member

                         

                        Again, knowing what you're trying to do might help us make more useful suggestions.

                         

                        At the beginning, I just wanted to learn all the color terminology in the related context with their logical relationships for my photography works.

                         

                        But now just for curiosity )) I don't have any specific target ... color is a very interesting subject to read and learn just for mental satisfaction, I think.

                         

                        Thank you for your suggestions ...

                        • 9. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                          Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                          OK, then start with those books.

                           

                          For a traditional artistic perspective, try The Elements of Color by Johannes Itten, and The Interaction of Color by Joseph Albers.  There are several good books on color usage in different periods and cultures, traditional pigment chemistry and paint chemistry - but I like The Science of Paintings by Taft and Mayer.

                           

                          One that doesn't fit any common categories, but answers some interesting questions, is The Physics and Chemistry of Color by Kurt Nassau.

                          • 10. Re: 3D LUT files ...
                            AttilaHan Community Member

                            Thanks a lot for all of those suggestions ...