15 Replies Latest reply on Aug 12, 2013 3:42 PM by johnjmurphyiii

    Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?

    johnjmurphyiii

      I recently purchased Adobe Lightroom 4, but have found it to be too much tool for me to handle, even with reading the Martin Evening book and viewing the YouTube tutorials.  I'm thinking of adding Photoshop Elements 11 to my 64 bit Windows 8 PC. It seems simpler to use.  I'd like to keep Lightroom 4 on my PC just in case I grow into it later, but only if it poses no conflicts or compatibility issues with Elements 11.  Are there any issues or conflicts?  Should I uninstall Lightroom 4 before installing Elements 11? 

       

      As an aside, I couldn't view RAW images in LR4, and couldn't find Camera RAW in LR4 either (another reason to switch to Elements 11 in addition to LR4's overwhelming complexity).  Does Elements 11 have Camera RAW?

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          There are no conflicts between the two, since they are separate product lines. As for your other issue - LR is basicalyl ACR. If it doesn't open your RAW files, they may not be supported and in that case you are not solving naything by switching to PSE - it uses the same ACR stuff or even usualyl is one or two .x versions behind. Refer to these lists:

           

          Camera Raw plug-in | Supported cameras

           

          Camera Raw-compatible Adobe applications

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
            johnjmurphyiii Level 1

            I did check the lists.  My Nikon D5100 is supported for Camera RAW.  I note that LR4 doesn't appear on the list of Camera RAW-compatible Adobe applications.  I'm still left wondering if Elements 11 will allow me to open and edit my files from the D5100.  As you say, I wouldn't be solving anything with a switch to PSE.  Thanks.

            • 3. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
              johnjmurphyiii Level 1

              I did check the lists.  My Nikon D5100 is supported for Camera RAW.  I note that LR4 doesn't appear on the list of Camera RAW-compatible Adobe applications. My humble Windows 8 Photo Gallery is able to view (but not edit) my RAW images; whereas LR4 cannot.  I'm still left wondering if Elements 11 will allow me to open and edit my files from the D5100.  As you say, I wouldn't be solving anything with a switch to PSE if it does not..  Thanks.

              • 4. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                I note that LR4 doesn't appear on the list of Camera RAW-compatible Adobe applications.

                Doesn't need to.

                 

                The Camera Raw engine offers the same tools as the Develop module of Lightroom. That's why there are two columns on this link: one for Camera Raw and one showing the equivalent version of Lightroom supporting those same cameras:

                http://helpx.adobe.com/creative-suite/kb/camera-raw-plug-supported-cameras.html

                 

                Camera Raw is a plugin for the other apps so the compatibility of versions is shown at the other link.

                • 5. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                  johnjmurphyiii Level 1

                  I did find that going to preferences in LR4 and selecting "treat Jpegs as separate photos" permitted both NEF and Jpeg to be seen in the LR4 Library.  So my D5100 is supported for Camera RAW and will probably be so in Elements 11.   Thanks.

                  • 6. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                    b2martin_a Level 2

                    I don't have Lightroom, but use ACR in Photoshop CS6 for all my RAW processing.  Lightroom 4 is a RAW editor and uses the same algorithms for RAW processing as ACR7.x in Photoshop CS6.  ACR is not needed or compatible with Lightroom since Lightroom is already a RAW processor.  Lightroom is also a database and requires that you import your images into Lightroom before you can process them.  This may be the problem you are having.

                    • 7. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                      JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I think it's unfortunate that you haven't taken the time to understand how Lightroom works.  As you have discovered, Lightroom DOES support your camera.  You have discovered how to modify your preferences.  There are all sorts of other little nuances about the program that are still confusing you.  I'm not discouraging you from getting Photoshop Elements, because it is a useful tool to have in addition to Lightroom.  But Lightroom will have more tools that you can use on your raw images because it provides the full set of tools, the same as what is in Photoshop.  When you use Camera Raw with Photoshop Elements, you are provided with a smaller set of tools that won't give you as much control as you have in Lightroom.  You would do well to go to Adobe.TV and watch some tutorials and take a little more time to learn Lightroom.  I think you would find you will get greater satisfaction than just trying to work with Elements.

                      • 8. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                        Jeff Schewe Level 5

                        johnjmurphyiii wrote:

                         

                        As an aside, I couldn't view RAW images in LR4, and couldn't find Camera RAW in LR4 either (another reason to switch to Elements 11 in addition to LR4's overwhelming complexity).  Does Elements 11 have Camera RAW?

                         

                        How did you transfer your raw images to your HD? Did you use an old version of Nikon Transfer? If so, older versions of Nikon Transfer are know to corrupt the header information in NEFs and makes them unreadable in Camera Raw or Lightroom. The most recent version is fine...

                         

                        And, yes, Elements has a cut down version of Camera Raw without a lot of the image adjustements found in Lightroom or Camera Raw hosted by Photoshop.

                        • 9. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                          johnjmurphyiii Level 1

                          Thanks for the info.  I may not give up on Lightroom 4 as of yet.  Gradually, I seem to be picking up the main points. Part of the problem were hidden tools.  Another was visual - wedges to display tools - small black wedges on a dark gray panel - they were almost invisible.  Other tools only display if you are using related tools.  It was a little like having a big screen TV and a complex remote control where you couldn't even figure out how to change the channels. Initially Select Next Photo/Select Previous Photo were hidden from view.  While I certainly won't use all aspects of Lightroom 4, I am getting enough out of the Develop module to make it worthwhile. Thanks again.

                          • 10. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                            johnjmurphyiii Level 1

                            Thanks for the info.  I may not give up on Lightroom 4 as of yet.  Gradually, I seem to be picking up the main points. Part of the problem were hidden tools.  Another was visual - wedges to display tools - small black wedges on a dark gray panel - they were almost invisible.  Other tools only display if you are using related tools.  It was a little like having a big screen TV and a complex remote control where you couldn't even figure out how to change the channels. Initially Select Next Photo/Select Previous Photo were hidden from view.  While I certainly won't use all aspects of Lightroom 4, I am getting enough out of the Develop module to make it worthwhile. Thanks again.

                            • 11. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                              johnjmurphyiii Level 1

                              Thanks for the info.  I may not give up on Lightroom 4 as of yet.  Gradually, I seem to be picking up the main points. Part of the problem were hidden tools.  Another was visual - wedges to display tools - small black wedges on a dark gray panel - they were almost invisible.  Other tools only display if you are using related tools.  It was a little like having a big screen TV and a complex remote control where you couldn't even figure out how to change the channels. Initially Select Next Photo/Select Previous Photo were hidden from view.  While I certainly won't use all aspects of Lightroom 4, I am getting enough out of the Develop module to make it worthwhile. Thanks again.

                              • 12. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                                johnjmurphyiii Level 1

                                To answer you, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and I know very little.  LR4 does have RAW editing capability; I have used it.  It may not be called Camera RAW, but it’s there.  I think it’s the same with Elements 11.  My initial confusion was that, while I was shooting RAW and Jpeg Fine each for the same image, I was only seeing one image – not the two I was expecting.  The file size led me to believe that I was only getting Jpeg on LR4.  I did go to “Preferences” in LR4, and selected “treat Raw (NEF) and Jpeg images as separate images”.  Once I did that, LR4 displayed both the Jpeg and the RAW images.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Gradually, I seem to be picking up the main points. Part of the problem were hidden tools.  Another was visual - wedges to display tools - small black wedges on a dark gray panel - they were almost invisible.  Other tools only display if you are using related tools.  It was a little like having a big screen TV and a complex remote control where you couldn't even figure out how to change the channels. Initially Select Next Photo/Select Previous Photo were hidden from view.  While I certainly won't use all aspects of Lightroom 4, I am getting enough out of the Develop module to make it worthwhile. It’s slow, but each day LR4 looks a little better.

                                • 13. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                                  JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Lightroom has every control that Camera Raw has. It's just that the whole raw processing engine is part of the Lightroom program, not a plug-in like it is in Photoshop. However, Camera Raw behaves differently in Photoshop Elements. Several controls are not available when the plug-in runs under Photoshop Elements, even though it is the same plug-in. It is that way by design. You will be able to do more with your raw images in Lightroom than you will be able to do in Photoshop Elements. But there are some things that you cannot do in Lightroom, such as stitch a panorama image. And there are other tasks using the adjustment brush or the clone/healing tool in Lightroom that sometimes are not as effective as they are in Photoshop or Photoshop Elements. That is why I suggested previously that you might want to have Photoshop Elements in addition to Lightroom.

                                   

                                  It sounds like you are starting to get the hang of the program. Don't despair. It's frustrating, I know, to learn new programs and techniques. But someone is always here to help you.

                                  • 14. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                                    justgotherenow Level 1

                                    Hopefully, enough time has passed and you've learned more about LR4. 

                                    2 thoughts -

                                    1st - My LR3 and then LR4 and now LR5 - all handle my D5100 Raw.  As a matter of fact, I stopped having the camera take both Raw and Jpeg and now only shoot raw.  How did I learn Lightroom?  Youtube - I do MUCH better with video training that I can play while I'm in the program... much better than a book.  I only mention that because I knew I didn't need to learn everything, but needed to know how to get started importing, little cataloging, and MOSTLY developing in LR4.  I love that i can take 150 pictures from the park and and can Lightroom already recognizes the lens I'm using and I can batch - edit.  It improves my white balence and saturation as well as the curved corners in my wide angle shots - and the fact that it can do that on all 150 pics at one time is priceless.  I have about 250 different presets - but 10 that are basically my "go-to" effects... I have named them names that make sense to me and even tweaked a bit to my taste (i.e. Soft HDR, Faded Cuban, Pop Goes The Blue, etc).  Once again, I can take all 150 of the pics and make them any of 20 different versions of B&W... as I am sure you know, they are not created equally.  But not because some are good and some are not, but instead, different versions have their place, depending on the lighting, the skin tone, etc.  So, last weekend when I took 1500 pictures, LR4 saved me hours... plus the final 100 pictures all have a similar quality to them givinga very professional and polished look to my customer.

                                     

                                    2nd- I actually use Photoshop Elements 11 as my editor for when I do complex stuff like layering (i.e. 5 pictures of a pitcher pitching a baseball and put into one picture.).  Worked fine with my D5100, as well.  I bought How to Cheat with Photoshop Elements.  I'm 100% certain full-blown PS CS6 would probably be even better - but I have yet to need anything I coulnd't figure out how to do in PSE - so, I will happily stick with elements for now.  I actually follow a professional guy on YouTube that uses LR and PSE. It works!

                                     

                                    Regardless of my strong opinion about this - I mostly hope you are just enjoying the tools you have already invested in and realize that all the posts above are mainly friends pointing out you have an amazingly powerful SUV parked in your computers garage.... and they just want you to give the minvan a break.    In the end, I respect the guy who can do what he needs/wants to do, regardless of the tool they choose. 

                                     

                                    All the best, man!

                                    • 15. Re: Giving up on Lightroom 4 in favor of Photoshop Elements 11?
                                      johnjmurphyiii Level 1

                                      Yes, enough time did pass.  I did learn a lot more about Lightroom; and, as you say, Youtube was very helpful. I found Serge Ramelli's relaxed low-key approach in demo-ing his workflow to be very good  Learning by doing helped as well, once I found out how to make the hidden panels appear.  I've been using Lightroom extensively, and have moved on to Lightroom 5.  Its Upright control is very nice. I still have Elements 11, but I've been too busy with Lightroom to really get into it yet.  I, too, now shoot only Raw.  Thanks for the encouragement.