31 Replies Latest reply: May 8, 2013 11:30 PM by Guy Burns RSS

    For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?

    Guy Burns Community Member

      On page 435 of the CS6 PDF it states:

       

      Because the Position, Scale, and Rotation properties are spatial in nature, it’s easiest to adjust them directly in the Program Monitor.

       

      After setting keyframe parameters in the Effect Controls panel by entering numbers to position, scale and rotate a still, I have to say I totally agree with that statement. It is much easier to adjust an image visually than by numbers.

       

      So, I take the Playhead to a certain position, set up my still just the way I want, and then I go looking for the Set Keyframes button (note the plural) to set all the necessary keyframes in one go – and I can't find it. I've set up my still, but if I don't click, click, click to add all the keyframes at each waypoint, the setup is lost.

       

      Is there a Set Keyframes button which sets all keyframes at each waypoint?

        • 1. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
          Steven L. Gotz Community Member

          Sort of.

           

          If you click on all of the stop watches before you change anything, every time you move the CTI and make a change to the position or scale or whatever, it adds keyframes automagically.

           

          Edit: and if you click on the little diamonds they set keyframes.

          • 2. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
            joe bloe premiere Community Member

            (note the plural) to set all the necessary keyframes in one go – and I can't find it.....

            What are you trying to "set all the necessary keyframes" to do?

            Scale up? Scale down? Slide away? Reposition?

             

            Premiere doesn't know what you want it to do until

            you give it at least two keyframes to work with.

            Premiere calculates the positioning between your set keyframes.

             

            keys.PNG

            You can't set multiple keyframes for the same transformation

            in one stroke.

            So, I take the Playhead to a certain position, set up my still

            just the way I want, and then I go looking for the Set Keyframes button

            Set a 'default position' keyframe at the beginning of the clip first

            (or add a 'default position' keyframe at the current frame,

            then slide it back to where you wish the motion to begin).

            Then, set up your still just the way you want, and a new

            keyframe will be automatically created at that frame.

             

            Premiere will take care of the 'tweening'.

            • 3. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
              PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

              Excellent explanation joe!

               

              A while back I placed a FR for being able to enable all of an effect's stopwatches at once.  Take the 16 point garbage matte for example.  That's 16 stopwatches that need to be clicked if you want to animate each parameter!  I have an even simpler solution compared to the one I presented years ago:

               

              Click Stopwatch = Stopwatch Activates

              SHIFT-Click Stopwatch = All of that effect's stopwatches are activated at once

               

              This would work in the same spirit as SHIFT clicking tracks to enable/disable all of them at once.  What do you think?  I'm submitting a new FR for this now. 

              • 4. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                joe bloe premiere Community Member

                I would prefer the operation to work as it does in Ae.

                You can click-drag on the 'stopwatch' icons to activate keyframing

                for multiple parameters at once, and set an initial keyframe.

                SetKeys_Ae.PNG

                • 5. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                  PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                  Hi Joe,

                   

                  Yes, I agree and would love to see this feature added to all aspects of PP's interface! +1  I sent a FR for that too some time ago.

                   

                  Did you send a FR for that?

                   

                  Here's the FR I just sent for a SHIFT-modifier.  Feel free to copy/paste to send it as your own.  I'll send Adobe another FR for AE style click-slide selectable parameters and paste it here so you can copy/paste it as your own FR if you'd like.  Of course, both of these solutions can happily co-exist, but between the two, I would prefer the AE approach you suggest:

                   

                  *******Enhancement / FMR*********

                  Brief title for your desired feature: SHIFT-Activate all Effect stopwatches

                   

                  How would you like the feature to work?

                  When keyframing effects with several stopwatches, having to click each individual stopwatch wastes a lot of time.  For example, with the Sixteen-Point Garbage Matte, that's up to 16 clicks!  A better solution would be to allow users to SHIFT-Click on any Effect's stopwatch to instantly activate (or deactivate) all of that Effect's stopwatches at once.  This would work much the same way the Timeline allows users to SHIFT select/deselect all Video or Audio tracks at once.

                   

                  Why is this feature important to you?

                  Efficiency through the elimination repetitive tasks is key to a productive editing workflow (especially when eliminating those repetitive tasks is as simple as re-purposing a current keyboard modifier).

                  • 6. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                    joe bloe premiere Community Member

                    Did you send a FR for that?

                    Nope.

                    I don't do a lot of keyframing in Pr anyway.

                     

                    • 7. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                      PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                      Here's the FR I just sent based on your suggestion Joe.  Everyone who likes this request, please copy/paste it as your own FR by sending it here: www.adobe.com/go/wish.

                       

                      *******Enhancement / FMR*********

                      Brief title for your desired feature: After Effects-style click-slide selection of parameters

                       

                      How would you like the feature to work?

                      Just the way it does in After Effects!  The ability to click on 1 checkbox/ stopwatch and slide the cursor over other checkboxes/stopwatches to instantly copy the value is a brilliant time saver.

                       

                      Why is this feature important to you?

                      Efficiency through the elimination repetitive tasks is key to a productive editing workflow!  Inefficiencies are especially frustrating when they exist in some but not all of a company's programs.  AE has already paved the way with a brilliant solution.  Now all that Premiere has to do is follow AE's example.

                      • 8. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                        Guy Burns Community Member

                        Thanks for the responses. Some I don't follow being a raw beginner, but I'll get there.

                         

                        In reponse to

                        What are you trying to "set all the necessary keyframes" to do? Scale up? Scale down? Slide away? Reposition?

                         

                        The way keyframes work is not intuitive. For an experienced user (as with anything) they may seem okay, but for a beginner – my goodness they are complicated. Below was my first attempt at moving an image across the screen:

                         

                        1. Set the Playhead and click on Motion.
                        2. Make the image smaller and move it hard left.
                        3. Click the animate buttons for Position and Scale. Two keyframes appeared.
                        4. Move the Playhead. Change the Position (keyframe appears) and Scale (keyframe appears) so that the image moves across the screen.

                         

                        Worked beautifully. Then I decided that I'd like to see the image rotate on the spot.

                         

                        5. Click the Animate button for Rotation and rotate the image.

                         

                        I now realise why that won't work. What happens is that the animation begins with the image already rotated (because a Rotation keyframe hadn't been set). The problem was: I hadn't forseen that I might want to rotate the image. I thought I was setting up "States" but I wasn't. i.e. I assumed that what I saw on the screen when I set up the animation would be what I saw during the animation. That's when I went looking for the Set Keyframes button.

                         

                        It seems to me that setting all keyframes would be the most intuitive way to work. Set up the image as you want, and then click on a button to remember that state, or have Premiere do it automatically when you move the Playhead. This "state-setting" would require Premiere to set keyframes for all the parameters (Position, Scale, Rotation and so on) even if they haven't been altered. That way, what you see while setting up is what you get on playback.

                         

                        When I started with keyframes I thought of them similar to manually logging GPS waypoints. Move, log, move, log. To me, not setting all the keyframes at each "waypoint" is like pressing the "Event" button on my GPS (would stores the present location), but the lattitude and longitude are only stored if you click on Lattitude and Longitude buttons.

                         

                        When I'm navigating an animation I would like an Event button or a Set Keyframes button. Just seems easier to me.

                        • 9. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                          PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                          Hi Guy,

                           

                          For what you're asking, I think my Feature Request for "SHIFT-Activate all Effect stopwatches" would work well.  With this feature, you could set the first 'state' you want, SHIFT-Click on any Motion stopwatch, and then set your second 'state'.  This would work the same as a separate 'Set Keyframes' button, but through a keyboard modifier instead of a separate button (a more minimalist/elegant solution IMO).  A tool tip could even help new and current users find out about the keyboard modifier.  For example, hovering the cursor over a stopwatch could bring up the tool tip: "SHIFT-Click to simultaneously toggle all effect's stopwatches". 

                           

                          What do you think?  Would this solve the issue for you?  If so, make sure you send Adobe an official FR.

                          • 10. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                            Guy Burns Community Member

                            In my very limited experience, I think your solution is a good one. What I'd like to know is: why did Adobe design keyframes in the way they did? Under what circumstances is it desirable not to set all stopwatches? Once Motion is selected, I would have thought all stopwatches should be set at each waypoint. But maybe that has disadvantages. Having an extra button may be one of them.

                             

                            As you may be able to tell, I'm trying to understand why things are done certain ways, not just learning how to do them.

                            • 11. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                              JSS1138 Community Member

                              Once Motion is selected, I would have thought all stopwatches should be set at each waypoint

                               

                              Oh, God no.  If I want a parameter keyframed, I'll turn it on myself.

                              • 12. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                                You're right Jim.  Users need to be able to choose if they want just one stopwatch activated or not, hence the necessity of the solution being fully user-selectable.  i.e. click a stopwatch if you only want that one stopwatch activated (current behavior).  SHIFT-click a stopwatch if, and only if, you want all of the effect's stopwatches toggled in unison (behavior I FRed). 

                                • 14. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                  Guy Burns Community Member

                                  All very well to say that you'll turn them on yourself, but why? Under what circumstances is it desirable not to set all stopwatches? If you don't touch their settings, nothing happens to that setting. As a beginner, not turning them all on caused hassles.

                                  • 15. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                    JSS1138 Community Member

                                    Under what circumstances is it desirable not to set all stopwatches?

                                     

                                    Whenever I want a parameter changed for the entire duration of the clip.  Happens a lot when I create sideshows.  Sometimes I change the scale over time, so I turn keyframes for Scale on.  Sometimes I make the image larger, but only change the position over time, so I want that keyframed.  Sometimes I use rotation, and want it to change, sometimes I use rotation and want it fixed.

                                     

                                    The point is, I'm the editor, not the software.  Let me make the decision.  'Automatic' features just get in the way.

                                    • 16. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                      Guy Burns Community Member

                                      Warning: if the reader of this (I don't mean anyone in particular) is the sort of person who just wants to use functions and are not interested in questioning why things are the way they are, stop right now. You'll only get stroppy with me. To paraphrase Dustin Hoffman: "Hey, I'm learning here – I'm learnin' here!"

                                       

                                      I know I'm going to sound like the three-year old who keeps asking "Why?", but I still don't follow why setting all stopwatches at all waypoints causes problems. A user may not like the look of all those keyframes keyframes; they may "just get in the way" visually; they may be unnecessary – but can setting all stopwatches at all waypoints ever cause a problem? If the answer is yes then obviously I don't understand fully how keyframes work. So, to better understand these things, I'm approaching keyframes as if I was designing them from scratch. And I wouldn't design them as they are. This is what I would do:

                                       

                                      1. To set up a sequence controlled by, say, Motion, the user would hit a red button next to Motion which would then highlight to indicate recording has started. All parameters would come into play and recording would begin. Only one keyframe appears, somewhere at the top, to indicate the presence of keyframes at this waypoint. So, even though all keyframes are recording, only one is shown. It indicates to the user: "Hey, there is a keyframe state here".
                                      2. The user adjusts the image, and when they are happy they hit a button called "Log Keyframes".
                                      3. The user moves to the next waypoint, sets it up, and logs keyframes.

                                       

                                      Simple to understand; foolproof. Or is it? I'm looking for a concrete example ("Guy, try this…") to prove to myself that setting all parameters at all waypoints will cause a sequence to not act properly.

                                      • 17. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                        Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                        I believe you might be overthinking it.

                                         

                                        Simply allow us to run the mouse over the stopwatches like we do in another Adobe program. That would be fine. Having a modifier that allows us to Ctrl-Click  or Cmd-Click one of the stopwatches to cause the rest to be set would work even better.

                                         

                                        There is a reason not to automatically put a keyframe at each location. Sometimes just a couple of keyframes are sufficient for one parameter while dozens are needed on another. Sometimes I want to set my curve without having to go back and delete all the in between keyframes I didn't want.

                                         

                                        There is no need for a "log keyframes". Any changes are registered imnmediately. Much better as far as I am concerned.

                                         

                                        Anyone who worries about what the keyframes look like is probably wasting time worrying about the wrong things.

                                        • 18. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                          JSS1138 Community Member

                                          I still don't follow why setting all stopwatches at all waypoints causes problems.

                                           

                                          Because if I only want one of the four parameters on, I then have to go and turn the other three off.

                                          • 19. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                            Guy Burns Community Member

                                            Thanks for the response, Steven, but you haven't convinced me. I'm looking for one concrete example (i.e. tell me the steps in an animation) where the present system would result in less steps to implement, or to alter, or would otherwise be superior, than my suggestion. I'm right into "Think Different". I'm not wanting Adobe to make changes; I can use the existing system quite happily. But I want a deeper understanding of Premiere and how it works. So, what is the problem with logging all states at each waypoint? If there is a problem (other than "I do it this way"), I'd like to know what it is.

                                             

                                            I'm new to this. Experienced users sometimes need to step back and put themselves in the place of a beginner. There may be a better way. Convice me I'm wrong with a concrete example. Count the number of clicks required at present, and then count the clicks if all keyframes were logged.

                                             

                                            And, I'm not overthinking it. I'm learning by dissecting. I caused a bit of merriment a few months back in another of my threads when I said I read every word of the manual of any new software I'm learning. The young Turks couldn't believe it. One even called me "Dad", the cheeky young bugger.

                                            • 20. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                              JSS1138 Community Member

                                              what is the problem with logging all states at each waypoint?

                                               

                                              The problem is the program is doing something I may not want it to do, and that's bad.

                                              • 21. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                Guy Burns Community Member

                                                Jim, I don't follow you. Why do you have to turn them off? I just set up an animation with all parameters turned on. I only wanted to reposition the image, so I moved the image into its start position, then moved the Playhead to the end position and moved the image. Worked perfectly. I just happen to have a whole heap of inoperative keyframes I don't need. Forgetting the look of the thing, what's the problem? If there is a problem with setting all keyframes, I'd like to know what it is, because it means I don't understand keyframes fully.

                                                 

                                                Jim, in what circumstances may setting all keyframes be bad?

                                                • 22. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                  JSS1138 Community Member

                                                  If I don't want keyframes on any of the Motion parameters, and they all get turned on at the same time, then I have to go through and turn off the ones I don't want keyframed.  A modifier to turn them all on or off is fine, but not by default.

                                                  • 23. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                    Jeff Bellune CommunityMVP

                                                    It's probably OK to have all parameters logged with a single keyframe addition when the interpolation of those keyframes is linear and will never be anything else.  However, if you decide you want smooth Bezier keyframes or accelerated eases into keyframes, then logging all parameters can introduce unwanted wobble in all sorts of unexpected ways.  It's one of the reasons that the first After Effects preference I change is to set the default spatial interpolation to linear.

                                                     

                                                    Jeff

                                                    • 24. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                      Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                                      I am not sure where my explanation failed. I will try again.

                                                       

                                                      There are times I set a keyframe for scale at the begining and then again towards the end of a clip. Then I set the curve using bezier handles. If I had keyframes halfway through, or worse yet, every few frames or even more often because I was adjusting other parameters, I could not do this with one curve. I would either have to adjust hundreds or thousands of curves, or simply erase the keyframes in the middle. Why should I have to erase what I did not want in the first place?

                                                       

                                                      As I said, there are great solutions, like using the Adobe After Effects method of dragging the mouse over the stopwatches.

                                                       

                                                      I could get used to having all stopwatches on by default I suppose, but it would be annoying. I would much rather have a way to turn them all on, then have to have a way to turn them all off.

                                                       

                                                      Edit: Jeff types faster than I do, I think.

                                                      • 25. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                        PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                                                        Instead of discussing whether it should or shouldn't be possible to toggle all stopwatches at once, why don't we all submit feature requests for a SHIFT key modifier that toggles all stopwatches, a solution that would solve this problem by giving every user the right to choose? 

                                                         

                                                        Given the simplicity of this feature, I'm sure if enough of us ask for it, well get it sooner than later!

                                                         

                                                        Jim is right when he wrote: "If I don't want keyframes on any of the Motion parameters, and they all get turned on at the same time, then I have to go through and turn off the ones I don't want keyframed."

                                                         

                                                        Changing the default behaviour to 'toggle all stopwatches' would break our current workflow and frustrate more users than I can imagine.  What we need is a choice, without disrupting the current workflow.  That's what a keyboard modifier would give us.

                                                        • 26. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                          PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                                                          Steven L. Gotz wrote:

                                                          I could get used to having all stopwatches on by default I suppose, but it would be annoying.

                                                          I don't think it would be annoying Steven, I think it would be VERY annoying!

                                                          • 27. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                            Guy Burns Community Member

                                                            Jeff has provided the answer as to why keyframes for all parameters shouldn't be turned on at every waypoint: not because it would be a pain to turn them off (if you chose to); or because they are unnecessary; or because it's bad method. Those type of answers are not satisfying explanations. The underlying explanation – thanks Jeff – is that a keyframe set automatically at a midpoint, say, would not have the correct value to match up with a non-linear curve generated by keyframes on either side of it. Thus the wobbles that Jeff mentioned, as the Playhead passes through a discontinuity.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks to all who tried to help me. I'll have lots more questions as I continue wading through the manual. Answers that go to the underlying issues, and not just surface issues, would be most appreciated. I not only want to learn Premiere, I want to know why it has been designed as it is.

                                                            • 28. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                              JSS1138 Community Member

                                                              I could get used to having all stopwatches on by default I suppose

                                                               

                                                              I would HATE that.   It's bad enough Opacity was turned on by default, having all the Motion parameters also turned on would suck!

                                                              • 29. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                                JSS1138 Community Member

                                                                Those type of answers are not satisfying explanations.

                                                                 

                                                                To you maybe.  But I disagree with Jeff.  I don't normally change keyframe interpolation and feel those reasons are precisely why this should not be done.

                                                                • 30. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                                  Guy Burns Community Member

                                                                  Sorry Jeff, I had to take back the Correct answer I awarded you. After thinking about it, I can't see where wobbles would come from. And I don't think there is any discontinuity to contend with, as I (incorrectly) mentioned. Premiere automatically smooths all curves. Can you show me, or explain, in what circumstances a wobble may appear?

                                                                  • 31. Re: For Motion, is there a Set Keyframes button?
                                                                    Guy Burns Community Member

                                                                    This thread has probably run its course. I have started a new thread, a challenge, here.