6 Replies Latest reply on May 8, 2013 5:12 AM by A.T. Romano

    Frame Rate Conversion

    jaydub2222

      I have the following clips that I need to edit together in the same project:

      1. YUY2 codec in .avi at 1920x1080 and 23.976 fps (uncompressed Blu-ray)

      2. MPEG2 codec in .mpg at 720x480 and 29.970 fps (DVD VOB file converted to MPEG)

      3. HFYU codec in .avi at 720x480 and 29.970 fps (analog capture)

      When I edit together, the rendered file skips, presumably due to intermixing 23.976 and 29.970 together (clips not intermixed render fine).  So I need to commonize the frame rate.  First question is, which frame rate should I convert to?  I tried converting the 23.976 to 29.970 by going to "Interpret Footage" and assuming a frame rate of 29.970.  OK, but that creates two problems:

      1. This takes the 23.976 footage from 3 hours 44 minutes to 2 hours 59 minutes on the PE timeline and when rendered at 29.970 results in obvious fast motion, which I don't want.

      2. The six audio tracks for 5.1 sound remain at 3 hours 44 minutes on the timeline, and the track is completely out of synch with video.

       

      Alternatively, I get the exact opposite problem if I attempt to convert 29.970 footage to 23.976, that is to say its in slow mo.

       

      Jees, I'm gettin' desparate.  Any help out there?  I followed a video tutorial at Video Maker specific to Premiere Pro, but it doesn't don't really tell me how to fix the above issues. 

        • 1. Re: Frame Rate Conversion
          A.T. Romano Level 7

          jaydub2222

           

          What program are you using Premiere Elements (which version, what operating system) or Premiere Pro?

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: Frame Rate Conversion
            jaydub2222 Level 1

            Premiere Elements 11 Trial Version and Windows 7.  I don't believe the trial version is hobbled in anyway, but I'm not completely sure.

            • 3. Re: Frame Rate Conversion
              A.T. Romano Level 7

              jaydub2222

               

              The Premiere Elements 11 trial version should be full functional.

               

              The frame conversion from 24 to 29.97 frames per seconds or vice versa seems to be problematic independant of the video editor, judging from what I have read. Since you referenced a Premiere Pro tutorial on this, I thought that you might be working with these files in Premiere Pro.

               

              Right click the monitor, select Playback Settings and check out 24p Conversion Method...there are two pull down methods there, Repeat Frame and Interlaced Frame which is supposed to convert 24p to standard frame rates of 25, 30, 60 frames per second. I will give a lot at this with some 24p footage and Premiere Elements 11 in this mixed Timeline.

               

              I have seen some online articles related to doing the 24 to 29.97 conversion in After Effects. But, I have not been there and done that.

               

              I will report back if I find anything about this.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: Frame Rate Conversion
                A.T. Romano Level 7

                jaydud2222

                 

                I have looked at your originally posted issue first hand with files that I had.

                Premiere Elements 11

                Windows 7 64 bit

                Project Preset = NTSC DV Standard

                 

                Using:

                1920 x 1080 @ 23.97 frames per second (AVCHD.mov) ...scaled down in the Edit Mode Monitor space established by the project preset setting of NTSC DV Standard.

                680 x 480 @ 29.97 frames per second (MPEG4.avi)...scaled up in the Edit Mode Monitor space established by the project preset setting of NTSC DV Standard.

                680 x 480 @ 29.97 frames per second (MPEG4.avi)...scaled up in the Edit Mode Monitor space established by the project preset setting of NTSC DV Standard.

                 

                The Playback Settings were left at the default 24p method which appears to be Interlaced Frame (2:3:3:2). The Playback Setting were found by right clicking the Edit Mode Monitor and selecting Playback Settings.

                 

                I saw no motion playback problem or other for 1920 x 1080 @ 23.97 frames per second in the rendered Timeline consisting of all 3 files. The motion playback of that file on the rendered Timeline was the same as that of the original saved to the hard drive.

                 

                As for this Interpret Footage business applied here, consider that Time Stretch and Interpret Footage are the two classical ways to create a slow or fast motion video effect for a video clip in Premiere Elements. So, it would appear that you do not want to go there.

                 

                Based on the above, my take on this is that the frame rate difference (23.97 vs 29.97 frames per second probably is not at the core of your issue. I would look deeper into the properties of your "YUY2 codec in .avi at 1920x1080 and 23.976 fps (uncompressed Blu-ray)" with special attention to computer resources if you are dealing with about 4 hours of 23.97 footage et al on that Timeline.

                 

                Other views on this should be interesting.

                 

                Thanks for the follow up.

                 

                ATR

                 

                Add On...I have not seen that you get a slow motion video effect if you take those SDs at 29.97 frames per second into a Premiere Elements 11 NTSC DSLR 1080p DSLR 1080p24 project. Again slow or fast motion effects applied using Time Stretch or Interpret Footage on the file.

                • 5. Re: Frame Rate Conversion
                  jaydub2222 Level 1

                  It appears you may be correct, A.T.  When I try to render the 23.97 footage without the 29.97 footage mixed in, I still get skipping no matter what output format I choose (AVCHD M2T, AVCHD MP4, MPEG2, HDTV, all adjusted to the source's native resolution and frame rate).  The clip was extracted from Blu-ray disc (VC-1, m2ts file) using AnyDVD and then converted losslessly to a virtual .avi file pursuant to instructions found in a forum sticky titled "Preparing Blu-ray for Editing in NLE" posted by the moderator in the Non-Linear Editing forum on the Doom9 site.  It involves creating a .mkv file from the .m2ts file using matroska and megui.  The .mkv file is about 28GB in size (3.4 hours).  You then use avisynth to create a virtual YUY2 .avi file, which is then imported into Premiere.  The .avi file appears to Windows as a 1.4TB file, but it is not actually that size on the hdd (my hdd is only 1TB!).   The file imports into Premiere just fine and I can edit it, but I cannot render without significant skipping.  Mediainfo program reports the following stats for the .avi file:

                  Format:  AVI

                  File Size:  1.4TB
                  Overall Bit Rate: 796 Mbps
                  Format:  YUV
                  Codec:  YUY2
                  Frame Rate: 23.976
                  Color Space: YUV
                  Chroma Subsampling:  4:2:2
                  Compression Mode: Lossless

                   

                  I built my system in late 2009:
                  Intel LGA 775 Q9650 3Ghz Quad Core with bus speed of 1333
                  Asus motherboard with X48 Northbridge and ICH9R Southbridge
                  4GB RAM
                  300 GB 10,000 rpm Velociraptor HDD running operating system and program files (including Premiere program files)
                  1TB 7,200 rpm HDD for data drive.  The data drive is where the .prel and rendered file are stored.

                  No RAID

                   

                  I just want to be able to import the VC-1 m2ts file into Premiere, edit it, and render without skipping, but Premiere won't take it, requiring that I go through the above machinations. 

                   

                  Any ideas?

                  • 6. Re: Frame Rate Conversion
                    A.T. Romano Level 7

                    jaydub2222

                     

                    Thanks for the additional details. Based on my interpretation of them, I suspect that the frame rate is not the core issue here.

                     

                    Assuming that there are no video protection matters involved here and you want to extract the video from a Blu-ray disc format on Blu-ray disc, why are you finding it necessary to go through all that work

                     

                    The clip was extracted from Blu-ray disc (VC-1, m2ts file) using AnyDVD and then converted losslessly to a virtual .avi file pursuant to instructions found in a forum sticky titled "Preparing Blu-ray for Editing in NLE" posted by the moderator in the Non-Linear Editing forum on the Doom9 site.  It involves creating a .mkv file from the .m2ts file using matroska and megui.  The .mkv file is about 28GB in size (3.4 hours).  You then use avisynth to create a virtual YUY2 .avi file, which is then imported into Premiere.  The .avi file appears to Windows as a 1.4TB file, but it is not actually that size on the hdd (my hdd is only 1TB!).

                    in order to get this

                    I just want to be able to import the VC-1 m2ts file into Premiere, edit it, and render without skipping,

                     

                    Why can't you put the Blu-ray disc with its contents into the Blu-ray burner tray, open the Blu-ray, open the BDMV Folder, open the STREAM Folder of the BDMV Folder, and copy the .m2ts file there which is the video file? That .m2ts file should import fine into Premiere Elements with appropriate project preset and provided no protection issue involved. Have you been there and tried this approach for Premiere Elements as your video editor?

                     

                    We will be watching for further developments.

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    ATR