23 Replies Latest reply: May 6, 2013 1:02 PM by i_am_cipher RSS

    PE11 and 1080p 60fps

    i_am_cipher

      Hi,

       

      First of all i'm pretty cluless when it comes to video. Photography is more my thing.

       

      I borrowed a friends camcorder  (Panasonic TM900) for an event, but now I'm struggling with the output. The oginal raw files look stunning, however I can't seem to export them and have them look anywhere near as good as the oringals, no matter what I try.

       

       

      I believe I imported the videos into PE11 correctly using the AVCHD 1080p 60 setting. However no matter what I select to "share" just gives me much lower quality results. I did a seach and  see somone mention that you can select AVCHD MP4 1080p 30 as the output then go to advanced and slect 60fps. This DID seem to help the quality alot, but it seemed to make the video more jittery and not as smooth as if frames are being dropped. Not to mention the 7 second video clip I was using to test was about 28MB, seems like thats pretty big. Surely this can't be the only way to export???

       

      Exporting to Ipad or to youtube gives similar awful results

       

       

      I'm not sure what other info to give, but any help is appreciated, I'm at my wits end with this.

       

       

      Jim

        • 1. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
          A.T. Romano Community Member

          Jim

           

          Could you post a screenshot of your Advanced Button/Video Tab settings for your customized preset used to get your 1080p60 as AVCHD.mp4? Either that or post the Advanced Tab/Video Tab settings.

           

          Also, to import your 1080p60 into Premiere Elements 11, are you letting the program set the project preset or are your setting the project preset yourself? If the program is doing the project preset setting, then please verify the setting via Edit Menu/Project Settings. If you set the project preset yourself, File Menu/New/Project and the choice NTSC/AVCHD/AVCHD 1080p60 with a check mark next to "Force selected Project Setting on this Project".

           

          You could also export as H.264.mov....the QuickTime route/NTSC 16:9/Advanced Button Video Tab/H.264 codec and 1920 x 1080/60/progressive/square pixels (abbreviated version, details on request).

           

          You could also export as Windows Media Video 9.wmv...the Windows Media route/720 x 480 16:9 29.97/Advanced Button Video Tab/Windows Media/Windows Media Video 9 codec and 1920 x 1080/60/square pixels (abbreviated version, details on request).

           

          You realize that file size can be adjusted under the Advanced Button/Video Tab with the bitrate settings (if available). And, lowering the bitrate will typically decrease the file size and quality; whereas, increasing the bitrate will typically increase the file size and quality. A compromise between file size and quality often needs to be found. Just in case notes.

           

          Please view the above. I will try to get some Panasonic TM900 video samples this afternoon and give them a first hand look in Premiere Elements 11 export choices for 1080p60.

           

          Looking forward to your follow up.

           

          ATR

          • 2. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
            whsprague Community Member

            Jim,

             

            I have a direct relative to your camera, use PrE11 and get very good results.

             

            How did you view the original raw files were you said they look stunning?  What setting was the camera on when you took them?  Even the lowest setting can be stunning, depending on how you view it.

             

            Knowing the camera and the software, my first guess is that you may not have shot in p60 and may be trying to edit in p60.

             

            I am probably the one that wrote about reseting the frame rate to 60p at output.  I do it with good results. 

             

            What is the intended target?

             

            Bill

            • 3. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
              A.T. Romano Community Member

              whsprague

               

              I have written about the suggested export settings mentioned for both 1080p60 and 1080p50 going back quite a while now.

               

              They have always given excellent results for others and myself. It is good to know that they have worked for you also.

               

              In view of my past experiences in this type of export in Premiere Elements 11, I have asked Jim for more information about all the settings that he is using for his 1080p60 export as AVCHD.mp4. I am hoping that the answers will be in the details forthcoming from him.

               

              ATR

              • 4. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                whsprague Community Member

                Knowing that particular camera, you have to take an extra step or two to get to 1080p60.  When it was being developed and sold, p60 was not yet included in AVCHD.  So, p60 is not on the regular menu.  There is a dedicated physical button for it.  Since he borrowed the camera, he probably didn't get a lot of time with the instruction manual.  The default is a 1080i60 at 16 Mbps variable.  Unless there is a lot of motion, the picture quality can be stunning even though that's two steps below the best. 

                 

                I'm still guessing until there is more information, but my guess is that he is trying to use PrE to make 60p files out of 60i files.  I don't know as that would work very well.

                 

                The other reason for the guess is that he was surprised by the file size.  The PrE default bit rate only makes the files a little larger than the orginal, if the original is 60p.

                 

                Bill

                • 5. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                  whsprague Community Member

                   

                  I have written about the suggested export settings mentioned for both 1080p60 and 1080p50 going back quite a while now.

                   

                   

                  Didn't mean to offend or step on your toes. 

                   

                  I think the first time I tried it and posted here was in PrE9 when my camcorder was new.  Maybe it was 10.  In both cases, you weren't even supposed to be able to get 60p source files to load (according to some of the MVPs here).  However, with a project preset of 720p60 I got smooth editing on an i5 laptop.  At output I could select 1080p,  bump the frame rate to 60 and, although it was slow, I got files that played well on my big screen. 

                   

                  Bill

                  • 6. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                    Ann Bens CommunityMVP

                    Before we go any further download this little programm and install.

                    http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en

                    Open a clip you have shot with camera and let the programm analyze the clip.

                    Post a screenshot of the result preferably in tree view.

                    After reading this screenshot we can set up a proper project for you and proper export settings depending on the final product you want.

                    Might want to give you pc specs also.

                    • 7. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                      i_am_cipher Community Member

                      Thanks for the reply guys, I've been going over what you both said and trying some things ATR suggested. Forcing the import did seem to help btw

                       

                      First of all, its definitely 60p, my friend who I borrowed the cam from confirmed this, and I do remember selecting the highest quality (it was last july haven't gotten to the videos until now) Also, the videos won't open in Final Cut Pro, which suggests they are 60p according to my friend.

                       

                      I guess with my limited video knowledge and understanding of PE11, I would have to say PE11 is a bit dumb, as i would expect that when you import and it asks what kind of video you ae doing (60p), it should give you the proper export options for 60p first...... makes sense to me anyway lol Instead, it does it backwards and  gives you lower quality export options but you need to dig deeper to create your own (if i'm understanding this correctly?) So this is what probably threw me off the most.

                       

                      I'm still messing around with this more, trying the things above, and also some of my own....... but I would also be interested and apprecaite if you could give me exactly the settings you use? What works best and gives the best quality, with a reasonable file size.

                      Using the QT  setting above I seem to get very nice results, but with 100% quality the output is HUGE.

                       

                       

                      I'm looking to export in 3 formats, a computer file, for ipad, and for youtube.

                       

                      Jim

                      • 8. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                        i_am_cipher Community Member

                        oh wow, a bunch of replies while it took me ages to type up my reply...lol let me catch up here. Sorry I'm slow, this is all getting overhwelming

                        • 9. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                          i_am_cipher Community Member

                          Ann,

                           

                          1.jpg

                           

                           

                          PC specs Quad 3.5ghz i7, 16GB, Nvidia 670 2GB, PE11 running off SSD

                           

                           

                           

                          thanks for all of your help, I think the biggest issue here may be that I'm a video noob lol

                          • 10. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                            A.T. Romano Community Member

                            Jim,

                             

                            Let us start with what I know has worked for me and others with Premiere Elements 11 Windows 1080p69 project specifically.

                             

                            For the AVCHD.mp4 (1080p60) Export

                            Publish+Share

                            Computer

                            AVCHD

                            Presets: = MP4 H.264 1080p30

                             

                            Under the Advanced Button/Video Tab of the preset...

                             

                            Codec: MainConcept H.264 Video (given)

                            TV Standard: NTSC

                            Frame Width = 1920 pixels

                            Frame Height = 1080 pixels

                            Frame Rate = 59.94 (based on your video properties that you just posted)

                            Field Order = None (Progressive) grayed out (given)

                            Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels

                            Profile = Main

                            Level = 5.1

                            Bitrate Encoding = VBR, 2 Pass

                            Target Bitrate = 32 Mbps (megabits per second)

                            Maximum Bitrate = 40 Mbps (megabits per second)

                            Start with those bitrate and increase, determining whether increases in the bitrate improve quality to any extent (watch the file size with these bitrate increases)

                             

                            For now, leave everything else as is for the preset.

                             

                            Depending on your results, we all can discuss other export route details.

                             

                            Thanks.

                             

                            ATR

                            • 11. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                              A.T. Romano Community Member

                              Bill,

                               

                              No offense taken. Just happy to get another "it works for me" report. These reports help us to pin point cause of these "does not work for me" and help others who were not successful in trying to do this. And, there is always the bonus that there is yet another variable to factor into the equation for success in this regard.

                               

                              ATR

                              • 12. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                i_am_cipher Community Member

                                ATR, thats lookin pretty sweet now! A little contrast, vibrance, and a slight bump to shaprening, and its looking better than the orginal. 78Mb for a 19 sec clip,  I'll have to work with the bit rates a bit..... my final video is probably about 60-90min

                                 

                                 

                                As I said above, this was all noob error, but you guys have set me straight. Thanks

                                 

                                Any advice for ipad, youtube?

                                 

                                 

                                Jim

                                • 13. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                  A.T. Romano Community Member

                                  Jim

                                   

                                  That is great news. Your follow up is much appreciated.

                                   

                                  Based on my experiences, you are not going to get a 1080p60 upload to YouTube if you try to do the upload from within the Premiere Elements 11 Publish+Share/Online/YouTube. The presets via that route are non adjustable and best = 1920 x 1080 at 29.97 frames per second.

                                   

                                  What I have tried is the upload of the AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) at the YouTube web site. That turned out fairly well. Worth giving it a try for your Premiere Elements 11 AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) file. In one case, YouTube offered a pop up to video stablize one of my videos. I did not expect that. Reminder, whatever you send, YouTube converts it to flash video as far as I know.

                                   

                                  Lots to explore.

                                   

                                  What version iPad do you have? I do not have an iPad, but, as far as I can determine, it does not support 1080p60 or 1080p50. Probably latest version, 1080p30, but not 100% sure on that. Needs verification.

                                   

                                  Please update us on your progress.

                                   

                                  Lots here interested and wanting success for your projects.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                   

                                  ATR

                                  • 14. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                    whsprague Community Member

                                    Codec: MainConcept H.264 Video (given)

                                    TV Standard: NTSC

                                    Frame Width = 1920 pixels

                                    Frame Height = 1080 pixels

                                    Frame Rate = 59.94 (based on your video properties that you just posted)

                                    Field Order = None (Progressive) grayed out (given)

                                    Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels

                                    Profile = Main

                                    Level = 5.1

                                    Bitrate Encoding = VBR, 2 Pass

                                    Target Bitrate = 32 Mbps (megabits per second)

                                    Maximum Bitrate = 40 Mbps (megabits per second)

                                    Start with those bitrate and increase, determining whether increases in the bitrate improve quality to any extent (watch the file size with these bitrate increases)

                                     

                                    ATR

                                    My saved user preset is almost the same.  Where different is:

                                     

                                    Yours is:  Pixel Aspect Ratio = Square Pixels

                                      Mine is:  Widescreen 16x9

                                    Yours is:  Level = 5.1

                                      Mine is:  4.2

                                    Yours is:  Bitrate Encoding = VBR, 2 Pass

                                      Mine is:  VBR, 1 Pass

                                     

                                    I don't know what the visable differences on playback might be, but it will be interesting to try yours out.

                                     

                                    Bill

                                    • 15. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                      whsprague Community Member

                                      A.T. Romano wrote:

                                       

                                      Based on my experiences, you are not going to get a 1080p60 upload to YouTube if you try to do the upload from within the Premiere Elements 11 Publish+Share/Online/YouTube. The presets via that route are non adjustable and best = 1920 x 1080 at 29.97 frames per second.

                                       

                                      What I have tried is the upload of the AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) at the YouTube web site. That turned out fairly well. Worth giving it a try for your Premiere Elements 11 AVCHD.mp4 (1920 x 1080 at 60 progressive frames per second) file. In one case, YouTube offered a pop up to video stablize one of my videos. I did not expect that. Reminder, whatever you send, YouTube converts it to flash video as far as I know.

                                       

                                       

                                      ATR

                                      The YouTube experience seems to need a balance between visual picture quality and upload efficiencey.  

                                       

                                      One of the things I like about PrE is, that once you have a good project put together, there are optimized outputs for various ways to view the production.  For YouTube, I like to use the "YouTube Wide Screen HD" preset under the AVCHD preset drop down menu.  It creates a file on my computer that I then use the YouTube provided uploader that will run in the background while I do other things.  Using the uploader built into PrE limits the video length to 8 minutes, but worse stops me from doing anything in PrE. 

                                       

                                      YouTube is good at making the videos very viewable on a computer screen.  If you want to avoid having YouTube trancode your work for some reason, there are other ways of delivering the production.  Vimeo has an option for downloading the origninal upload for viewers that want that. 

                                       

                                      Bill

                                      • 16. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                        A.T. Romano Community Member

                                        Bill

                                         

                                        Replying to your post #15

                                         

                                        One of the perks of uploading to YouTube at the YouTube web site using your video saved to hard drive is that you can take advantage of the YouTube extended time (over 15 minutes) which you do not get if you had used the direct upload of the video from within the Premiere Elements (Publish+Share/Online/YouTube).

                                         

                                        Why are you limited to 8 minutes with your direct upload of your Timeline to YouTube from with Premiere Elemens (Publish+Share/Online/YouTube)? The limit is shown as:

                                        File Size/Duration: 2.0 GB/15 min, 0.00 sec

                                         

                                        Thanks for sharing your observations. Very interesting and helpful and called my attention to the YouTube export choice under Publish+Share/Computer/AVCHD which I often overlook and use alternative means.

                                         

                                        ATR

                                        • 17. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                          whsprague Community Member

                                          A.T. Romano wrote:

                                           

                                          Why are you limited to 8 minutes with your direct upload of your Timeline to YouTube from with Premiere Elemens (Publish+Share/Online/YouTube)? The limit is shown as:

                                          File Size/Duration: 2.0 GB/15 min, 0.00 sec

                                           

                                          ATR

                                          Perhaps I have forgotten the exact YouTube time limit.  It used to be less than now.  I think I remember 8 minutes. 

                                           

                                          I've read that when PrE11 was being coded, they matched the internal limits with the YouTube limits at the time.  Around the time of PrE11's release, YouTube changed the length limit.  If you YouTubes are short, the PrE11 internal loader works fine.  If they are longer than whatever the limit was, PrE hangs without a lot of explaination.  Exporting to an external file is faster, works better, does not involve the internal limit and does not tie up your compter.

                                          • 18. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                            A.T. Romano Community Member

                                            Bill,

                                             

                                            In reply to your post #14

                                             

                                            Looking forward to your results.

                                             

                                            With regard to Level set in the customized preset dialog of Advanced Button/Video Tab of the export preset, I have found for a variety of export types where I am adjusting the Advanced Button/Video Tab settings that the frame rate cannot be set to higher level without a high enough Level set. In fact, the following error message appears...

                                             

                                            ProfileLevelError.JPG

                                             

                                            So, in those instances, I increase the Level set according so that I can type in the wanted values for frame size or have them placed automatically by the set of the Level. Another habit that I have is leaving the Frame Width and Frame Height unlinked in that customized presets dialog under Advanced Button/Video Tab.

                                             

                                            I have been concentrating on Video Tab in my comments. But I do check out settings for Advanced Button/Audio Tab and Multiplexing Tab as indicated or applicable.

                                             

                                            ATR

                                            • 19. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                              whsprague Community Member

                                              Yoy are over my head.  I'm out of here.  You're expertice exceeds anything I can offer or help with.  Please take the helm.

                                              • 20. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                                i_am_cipher Community Member

                                                Thanks again for all your help. Really put me in the correct direction, i'm just going to dive into this now and see how it goes.

                                                 

                                                I do have one more question. Is there any way to change your project settings once you start?

                                                when i first started I didn't even notice I had to pick settings when i imported  and already started to edit and cut quite agood chuck of my video, then realized my mistake.

                                                (and this was last week, even after discovering this mistake i was still having the export issue that I posted here about)

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Also with Youtube, I noticed also it says it limit it to 15 min.

                                                I think its better to upload on your own outside of PE11 or any video program.  I have a video shot from a DSLR i uplaoded to youtube last year thats about an hour and 15 min..... I don't have a special account or anything. It allowed me to do it, thats all  I know lol

                                                Crossing my fingers it allows me this time also.

                                                 

                                                Jim

                                                • 21. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                                  whsprague Community Member

                                                  i_am_cipher wrote:

                                                   

                                                  I do have one more question. Is there any way to change your project settings once you start?

                                                  when i first started I didn't even notice I had to pick settings when i imported  and already started to edit and cut quite agood chuck of my video, then realized my mistake.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  You cannot change settings after the project is started.  You can only start over with a new project if you want differents settings.

                                                   

                                                  In version 11 settings are picked automatically.  The trick is to drag the most important piece of footage into your timeline first.  It then picks the best it has for realtime preview and it should match your footage  You can, as an option, force it to a project preset at the opening screen, but unless there is a reason, don't.

                                                   

                                                  The project settings primarily effect the real time preview while you are editing.  The do have some effect on the Publish and Share process, but the production is trancoded or rendered separately and again based on setting you create in Publish and Share.  Concequenly, less than perfect preview may not show up in the final product at all.  For example if you have some complicated effects or adjustments the computer works has hard as it can in "real time" to show you what you're doing.  At output time, in can take the time to go through frame by frame and incorporate the effects or adjustments.  Depending on the computer it can take two or three times the length of the production to render.  Sometimes even longer.  For example, the Stabilizer effect is amazingly slow!

                                                   

                                                  Bill

                                                  • 22. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                                    A.T. Romano Community Member

                                                    i_am_cipher

                                                     

                                                    Thanks for your follow up.

                                                     

                                                    I just noticed the latest posts in your thread and would like to comment on your question about changing the project preset of a project after you or the program (as in the case of Premiere Elements 11) has set it.

                                                     

                                                    The Adobe party line (as mentioned by Bill) is a flat no can do.

                                                     

                                                    I have not tried this in Premiere Elements 11 Windows yet, but the answer has been Yes, not No,  to that question and details of that have been reported here and elsewhere for doing that under certain conditions. The basics for this involve editing the Notepad document of the project.prel file saved to the computer hard drive.

                                                     

                                                    What is your current project preset and to what would you like it change to without having to start a new project?

                                                     

                                                    How far into the current project are you? Is this a NTSC or PAL project.

                                                     

                                                    If interested, I will look into this in your specific situation and report back with details.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks.

                                                     

                                                    ATR

                                                    • 23. Re: PE11 and 1080p 60fps
                                                      i_am_cipher Community Member

                                                      No don't worry about it, I just went and started over....lol

                                                      I was only  6 1/2 min in, that much not seem like much but it was quite alot of clips and effects added.

                                                       

                                                      I will consdier my first run as practice

                                                       

                                                      Thanks

                                                      Jim