31 Replies Latest reply: May 8, 2013 8:53 AM by cfg_2451 RSS

    Premiere Pro #1 in market share!

    PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

      Watching the the live MAX show.  Jason Lavigne just announced that Premiere Pro is now #1 in market share!

       

      Bravo Adobe!

       

      Amazing things to come!

        • 1. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
          JSS1138 Community Member

          That's really cool, but any details on what specific 'market' he's talking about?  Post houses with 10 or more employees?  Hollywood studios?  Independent production companies?  Broadcast networks like ABC Studios?  Global sell through?  I can easily see a situation where Adobe has sold more copies of PP globally than any other NLE, while at the same time Premiere Pro specifically is used in fewer than 1% of all Hollywood and Broadcast productions.  So specifying the parameters of that 'market' is useful data.

           

          I mean, 50,000 copies sold to kids uploading gaming videos to YouTube doesn't really mean much to an editor who wants to know which NLE he should learn to make himself more hirable.

          • 2. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
            PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

            Don't have any more details at the moment.  It's just what was announced at MAX.

             

            But being #1 in market share can only mean that PP's presence in all of the areas you mention is also going to grow, IMO, especially due to its outstanding integration with AE, which I believe the vast majority of the players in the  markets you mention already use.

             

            And who knows, perhaps some of those kids uploading gaming videos to YouTube are tomorrow's Hollywood editors?  Everyting is possible!

            • 3. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
              JSS1138 Community Member

              But being #1 in market share can only mean that PP's presence in all of the areas you mention is also going to grow

               

              It would be nice to see "Premiere Pro experience required" start to replace "FCP experience required" on job listings.

              • 4. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                That, my friend, will come in time!   I remember years ago, when FCP was king, I would admit to using PP with a little embarrassment.  How that has changed!  I now admit to it with pride! (and I'm guessing that embarrassed feeling... well that's moved on to FCPX users )

                 

                Come to think of it, Apple did a great thing for us with FCPX!  By messing up royally  (other than for a few brilliant features I would love to see added to PP), they sent lots of disgruntled FCP7 editors our way.  Why is this good for us?  Because as PP's user base grows, so will it's number of great plug-ins!  And as more FCP7 users come over to Premiere, the more FCP7 goodness we'll get (as evidenced clearly in CS Next (or CC) with several new FCP features: through-edits, frame dupe detection, paste attributes dialogue box, etc.)

                • 5. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                  Biggles Lamb Community Member

                  The MAX announcement was that there will be to further CS releases. 

                   

                  Only CC and hence only via subscription. 

                   

                  Sony, Grass Valley, Apple etc must be laughing at Adobe's short sightedness. 

                   

                  So you guys may like to rethink what improvements you want to see in the next CC release

                  • 6. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                    PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                    "Adobe's short sightedness".  Hmm... that sounds like a pretty 'short sighted' remark.  Don't you think it's too early to decide?  CC hasn't even come out yet.

                     

                    If Adobe's embrace of the Cloud means that we can finally get regular, feature-rich updates, then I'm all for it!  In the last 2 years, FCPX users have received about 4 or 5 updates that included new features (some of the 8 updates so far just had bug fixes).  Would be great to get new features added to Premiere as soon as they become available, released every few months instead of only once a year!

                    • 7. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                      Biggles Lamb Community Member

                      Pierre. 

                       

                      Far from being a short sighted remark there will be many users of CS6 & earlier versions who have been waiting to but the latest version but who will now move to another manufacturer at some time in the future or they will stay put with their present version. 

                       

                      Adobe are in the business to make money, not to provide Pierre with what he wants; so they will take your subscription month after month, year after year and you will end up paying more for a product that will never have all the features you want. 

                       

                      Think about it, if all the functions you want and have been going on about in this forum are put into lets say CSX and you buy it, are you ever going to buy it again? 

                       

                      Updates will continue to be drip fed at a rate below what you expect, then quietly something will change for the worst and the cycle starts up again. 

                       

                      That has been the Adobe way since I started with Premiere 4.1 (that's 4.1 not CS4)

                      • 8. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                        PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                        Hi Biggles,

                         

                        I agree that financial incentives would dictate that a company release new features ever so slowly in order to lock it's users into perpetual 'upgradedom' (new word I guess? )  In other words, why give us everything we need it a single paid upgrade when much more money can be made by releasing 5 or 10 incremental upgrades that only have enough to make us take the bait, but never enough to leave us fully satisfied.  I believe Adobe is guilty of this, to a degree, but then again which large company isn't?  (That goes without even delving into the issue of changing workflow requirements, such as the need for need codec support as technologies change, for which regular updates are a necessity rather than just a money grab.)

                         

                        However, with the new Cloud model, Adobe has no more financial motivation for holding off new features.  Think about it: they make their money off of subscriptions, not paid updates.  So whether they give it all to us now, or phase it in slowly over the next 10 years, they would still make the same $ through their subscriptions.  Actually, that statement isn't quite accurate.  In this model, it's actually beneficial for Adobe to give it's users more up front than later, since the more they give up front, the sooner they can convince editors to switch from other NLEs and become new subscribers.  This is why I'm rather a fan of the new system, but of course, if, and only if, it means quicker, more regular updates.  And since the financial incentive will now be to get new subscribers asap, rather than force users to pay for update after update, I think it's safe to say that that is just what will happen.  After all, Adobe is in the business of making $ right?

                         

                        Hopefully this makes sense.

                        • 9. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                          Biggles Lamb Community Member

                          Pierre. 

                           

                          What you makes very good sense and I would agree that soon there will be quite a significant upgrade in the CC version, but I am more sceptical about the longer term and think that the rate of updates will actually reduce to a lower level, after all with so much regular income coming in through all the subscriptions why would Adobe break their butts releasing updates more frequently. 

                           

                          Also I believe that Adobe will have structured the subscriptions in such a manner as they will generate MORE income. 

                           

                          One thing that really bugs me $49.99 / month at todays exchange rate is £32.16 UK pounds. 

                           

                          Here in the UK we will be charged £47 / month or $73. now if that is not ripping off the customer I do not know what is!!!!!!!! 

                          • 10. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                            nickdbomb Community Member

                            Not everyone has the need for all of the software Adobe offers nor a need to update frequently or a budget of $50 per month for software. Adobe's subscription plan will not appeal to many loyal users. I'll take the wait and see approach because CS6 does what I need. The new feature announced at NAB were nice but I can get buy without them. 

                             

                            Will Adobe stick with "Cloud only subscriptions? My guess is it will be a year before the results of the approach are known.  When Jason polled the audience at NAB about 10% to 20% raised their hands when asked if they had already switched to subscriptions. about another 10% to 20% raised their hands when asked if they planned to switch. I'm not sure how many in the audience were Adobe users but I suspect it was a hi percentage. I was paying for the upgrades every other version so going to a subscription would more than double my software budget.  If in a year Adobe offers a reasonable upgrade plan I'll stick with them. But for now the cash drawer is closed to Adobe and my business will go on without frequent updates.

                             

                            I wanted to learn Avid because there's many jobs for editors with Avid skills. This might be a good time to learn Avid's workflow and increase my skills making me more sellable. Let's not let Adobe forget it's not the machine but the monkey making it work that is the key to a great production.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                              PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                              Biggles,

                               

                              You make a very good point.  Could the subscription model actually lead to a slow down in inovation over the years?  It's possible.  Only time will tell.

                               

                              Dang, what a rip off regarding what you guys get charged in the UK!

                              • 12. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                KGCW Community Member

                                Biggles Lamb wrote:

                                 

                                Here in the UK we will be charged £47 / month or $73. now if that is not ripping off the customer I do not know what is!!!!!!!! 

                                 

                                Want to play ? $80 / month in france.

                                 

                                As happy as I am with the CC model, I think the european rip off need to be adressed ASAP. They were struggling to give us believable reasons back to when creative cloud did not exist (and download version where more expensive than physical one). This feels even worse now that they shifted to all-digital delivery and monthly subscription.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                  PierreLouisBeranek Community Member

                                  Double dang!  Definitely a legitimate issue that needs to be raised.  If I was in Europe, I know I would be raising the issue in full force.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                    Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                    I believe that the problem in Europe is the VAT. Adobe has to pay a tax that they do not pay in the United States. Why should Adobe suffer when the users in those countries voted for higher taxes? And don't tell me you didn't vote for higher taxes if you live in a high tax country. The majority of the people in your country did and you haven't left the country because of it.

                                     

                                    Much as I would leave the high taxation in California if my wife wasn't so happy being back home within a few miles of where she was raised. I pay higher taxes because of where I live. Just not as high as the VAT. Not just yet, anyway.

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                      Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                      Steven, you may be surprised by the cost in various countries, when you exclude VAT. Using today's exchange rates and everything expressed in US $, you get the following monthly cost for the Creative Cloud:

                                       

                                      Country

                                      Price/month

                                      excl. taxes

                                      Price/month

                                      incl. taxes

                                      % difference versus

                                      US excluding taxes

                                      % difference versus

                                      US including taxes

                                      Local

                                      tax rate

                                      USA$ 50State dependentNANA
                                      UK$ 61$ 73 (£ 47)22 %46 %20 %
                                      France$ 68$ 81 (€ 61.50)36 %62 %19.6 %

                                      Switzerland

                                      $ 75$ 81 (CHF 70)50 %62 %8 %
                                      Luxembourg$ 70$ 81 (€ 61.50)40 %62 %15 %
                                      Netherlands$ 67$ 81 (€ 61.50)34 %62 %21 %
                                      Germany$ 68$ 81 ( € 61.50)36 %62 %19 %

                                       

                                      Considering that all countries use the same servers to access the CC software and the same servers for validating purposes, that does not explain why customers from outside the USA have to pay at least 22 % more in the UK and at least 34 to 50 % more in other European countries. They may even use your argument to rip off customers in Switzerland even more than other European countries with higher taxation, like Hungary. Keep in mind that businesses do not pay VAT, they get a refund of all the VAT they paid, only end-consumers suffer the penalty of the high taxation in their country.

                                       

                                      Tax rates should never be an argument for price differentation. Adobe does not benefit or suffer from local tax rules. They charge it and pay it, EOS. Adobe should only look at prices excluding taxes.

                                       

                                      They ought to charge something like € 38 per month, equivalent to around $ 50, excluding taxes.

                                       

                                      I have always been ripped off by Adobe due to their ridiculous pricing strategy, which made me go through convoluted steps to get the cheapest version available, because they refuse credit card payments from other countries. You can't pay with a Dutch credit card on the US website. This is a very cheap way to rip off your customers, IMO.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                        KGCW Community Member

                                        In france Creative Cloud is close to 50 € / month excluding VAT. If one euro was equal to one dollar that would be fine.

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                          Alan Craven Community Member

                                          Three years or so ago, when I complained to Adobe about this practice, they told me that it was necessary to pay for the cost of translation and publishing in foreign (i.e. non-US English) languages.  Now I know that either Oscar Wilde or Bernard Shaw once said "England and the US are two nations divided by a common language", but whatever else may divide us, the language is not common, the two versions of English have significant differences.

                                           

                                          My early versions of Premiere came with a choice of languages, including both US English and UK/International English, but by the time Adobe advanced this justification to me, the only English option was US English. 

                                           

                                          It has always tended to be standard practice to work on US$1 =£1 - for exported goods in either direction.  I was shocked at the prices of Linn hi-fi, as well as some US brands the first time I looked in the window of a US hi-fi shop.  Jimmy Carter was president and the bank exchange rate was US$2.40 = £1 

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                            Shane P Community Member

                                            PierreLouisBeranek wrote:

                                             

                                            "Adobe's short sightedness".  Hmm... that sounds like a pretty 'short sighted' remark.  Don't you think it's too early to decide?  CC hasn't even come out yet.

                                             

                                            If Adobe's embrace of the Cloud means that we can finally get regular, feature-rich updates, then I'm all for it!  In the last 2 years, FCPX users have received about 4 or 5 updates that included new features (some of the 8 updates so far just had bug fixes).  Would be great to get new features added to Premiere as soon as they become available, released every few months instead of only once a year!

                                            Indeed...that would be awsome if the new feature updates are released right away as opposed to once a year.

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                              Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                              This

                                               

                                              Three years or so ago, when I complained to Adobe about this practice, they told me that it was necessary to pay for the cost of translation and publishing in foreign (i.e. non-US English) languages

                                               

                                              is a load of crap. If there were a semblance of truth in it, they should add a surcharge for non US-English versions, not charge 22% extra for the same language version in the UK or up to 50% more in Switzerland, just because it was bought from another country. The delivery is the same, electronically, it contains all the crap in more than 40+ languages you never need,  it occupies almost 2 GB of space you don't want wasted with EULA's in God knows how many different languages, etc. Who needs a EULA in Armenian, Finnish, Estonian, Korean, Latvian, Turkish and numerous other languages when you only need US-English? And then the rude approach to charge you for something you have been begging for ages to get rid of?

                                               

                                              That stinks.

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                Alan Craven Community Member

                                                Harm Millaard wrote:

                                                 

                                                "This

                                                 

                                                Three years or so ago, when I complained to Adobe about this practice, they told me that it was necessary to pay for the cost of translation and publishing in foreign (i.e. non-US English) languages

                                                 

                                                is a load of crap. If there were a semblance of truth in it, they should add a surcharge for non US-English versions, not charge 22% extra for the same language version in the UK or up to 50% more in Switzerland, just because it was bought from another country. That stinks. "

                                                 

                                                 

                                                My view entirely!

                                                 

                                                But that was by no means the only load of crap that I had from Adobe about the appalling Premiere CS4!

                                                 

                                                Your table spotlights the malpractice perfectly, I meant to comment on this in my earlier post, but part of it went AWOL .

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                  Jason R Brandt Community Member

                                                  The biggest problem with CC is that fact that you will no longer "own" the software.

                                                   

                                                  If 2 years from now, after many updates/upgrades/added features, etc..., you decide you can no longer afford the subcription price. You lose the programs. You have nothing.

                                                   

                                                  If Adobe suddenly goes out of business (I know, very unlikely) you are left with NOTHING.

                                                   

                                                  I just think it's absurd to not offer a product for PURCHASE. This is simply renting.

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                    Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                                    I believe that a "Rent to Own" feature would be appropriate. At some point in the process, you could pay a substantial fee and Adobe could lock down the software on your PC as "purchased" and it would stay operational. How you would move it to another PC is not something I have figured out, but they could probably come up with special backup software that would allow it.

                                                     

                                                    Harm, I don't know where you got the chart, but is it possible there are additional taxes not being taken into consideration?  If that chart is accurate, I can see why people would be upset with them.

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                      BJBBJB1 Community Member

                                                      I could not agree more.....I am looking at archived projects.  I have no idea if CS6 will work on future windows versions.  Maybe for one more upgrade, but after that?

                                                       

                                                      Now I could try the cloud for a while.....work on some projects, decide it is not worth it. Go back to cs6 for casual work. But after a while, it probably won't run with my new video card and OS.

                                                       

                                                      And those projects that I worked on via the cloud version, I can't even access those!

                                                       

                                                      I don't like it. Don't like it at all....


                                                      BJBBJB1

                                                      • 24. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                        KGCW Community Member

                                                        Steven L. Gotz a écrit:

                                                         

                                                        I believe that a "Rent to Own" feature would be appropriate. At some point in the process, you could pay a substantial fee and Adobe could lock down the software on your PC as "purchased" and it would stay operational.

                                                         

                                                        That would be great, and as mentioned in another discussion thread I'm pretty sure I saw something official about a long term purchase option when Creative Coud was released last year. Obviously I can't find it anymore.

                                                        • 25. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                          Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                                          Steven,

                                                           

                                                          I made that table and today even expanded it to include more countries and making a distinction between Complete, Upgrade and Student versions. See http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1207459?tstart=0

                                                           

                                                          I went to the official Adobe price overview of each country, got the official exchange rates for each currency and got the different tax rates in all the countries, and then calculated the price differences. There are no additional taxes in Europe. Only VAT. No import duties, or whatever the government decides to steal from you.

                                                           

                                                          There are two things certain in life, death and taxation. The latter is worse because it happens every year, death only once. Taxation is a form of legalized theft.
                                                          • 26. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                            Steven L. Gotz Community Member

                                                            Has Adobe ever commented on its pricing strategy overseas? It seems irrational in light of today's open communications and instant information.

                                                             

                                                            I understand VAT, but I don't know anything about corporate fees or hidden costs of doing business. I don't doubt your numbers, I just have a naive hope that there is a good business reason behind screwing people over. Otherwise it seems counterintuitive to have pricing models that encourage people to buy their Creative Cloud memberships through American friends or family, or perhaps just through an American bank while on a vacation to the United States. People could sent a year's worth of membership fees to someone in the US to pay for the product at a retail store, register it, and then provide the serial number from the retail version. That just seems to be the wrong way to go about doing business.

                                                            • 27. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                              Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

                                                              I have contacted Adobe in the Netherlands about this in the CS5 era when I compared for instance the US price of the Production Premium suite to the Dutch price. IIRC it was $ 899 in the US and € 1,199 (around $ 1,798 at that time) in the Netherlands, $ 1,511 excluding VAT at that moment. The story they told me was that this was due to the fact that telephone support was free in the Netherlands and a paid service in the US.

                                                               

                                                              My reaction was - of course - that I was not willing to spend the extra money when effectively I was better equipped to offer support to them, than they were able to support me. So I bought from the US. When I met Mitch Wood at the IBC 2 years ago I complained to him about this pricing anomaly and I'm sure he channeled this internally, but to no avail it seems.

                                                              • 28. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                                joe bloe premiere Community Member

                                                                I was not willing to spend the extra money when effectively I was better equipped to offer support to them, than they were able to support me.

                                                                  Truer words never spoken.

                                                                • 29. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                                  Alan Craven Community Member

                                                                  joe bloe premiere wrote:

                                                                   

                                                                  I was not willing to spend the extra money when effectively I was better equipped to offer support to them, than they were able to support me.

                                                                    Truer words never spoken.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Joe, perhaps folk like you, Harm and the others who in reality ARE Adobe support, should withdraw your services until Adobe see sense on perpetual licences and global pricing?  Just a thought!

                                                                  • 30. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                                    joe bloe premiere Community Member

                                                                    Nah... no point in punishing users like you and me.

                                                                     

                                                                    • 31. Re: Premiere Pro #1 in market share!
                                                                      cfg_2451 Community Member

                                                                      PierreLouisBeranek wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      Jason Lavigne just announced that Premiere Pro is now #1 in market share!

                                                                       

                                                                      With the new CC price increses, this will perhaps change. Adobe is lowering the barrier to entry in to the NLE market, pursuing the more lucrative post houses and kicking out their independent and small biz customers. Which is Adobe's right to do, if that's what they want. And clearly it is.

                                                                       

                                                                      Perhaps another company will start offering incentives to change, just as Abobe did with FCP customers in the last few years. Might be that number one rating is temporary. We'll see.

                                                                       

                                                                      I couldn't be more dissapointed in Adobe myself.