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    "New in InDesign CC"

    [Jongware] MVP

      Screen Shot 2013-05-07 at 12.48.57 AM.png

       

      .. Surely a mistake? Or Back by Dope Demand?

        • 1. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
          sandeecohen ACP/MVPs

          Dangers of cut and paste.

          • 2. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
            [Jongware] MVP

            At least they thought of changing CS2's text from "32-bit" to "64-bit" :)

            • 3. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
              James_233 Community Member

              I don't like this development  at all. I don't want to be stuck in the cloud to do my work. I like to switch off the internet.

               

              This whole scheme sucks. I'll stick with CS6 for as long as I can and in the meantime try to find an alternative to Adobe

              • 4. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                The software doesn't run in the cloud. A file sharing / collaboration mechanism is provided, but the software runs on your desktop system as it currently does with CS6.

                 

                        - Dov

                • 5. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                  James_233 Community Member

                  But we have to pay a monthly/annual fee. Still don't like this scheme.

                   

                  And we'll have to be paying Adobe forever and forever and forever. Just read some of the FAQs.

                   

                  This scheme sucks.

                  • 6. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                    James_233 Community Member

                    And there is no single option for InDesign.

                    • 7. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                      Steve Werner ACP/MVPs

                      You can get an individual subscription for InDesign for $10 per month.

                      • 8. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                        James_233 Community Member

                        Thank you. It wasn't listed on the web page I found.

                         

                        I am still unimpressed with this scheme. I hope so many people avoid it Adobe will rethink so there will be an option for us to buy say a print CS if we want, and for others who like being ripped off to stay with CC

                        • 9. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                          Steve Werner ACP/MVPs

                          To be clearer. It's $9.99 per month before July 31 if you've got a license for CS3 or higher.

                           

                          https://creative.adobe.com/plans?plan=offers&promoid=KFHQA

                          • 10. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                            Paul_Taylor Community Member

                            This moves choice away from the customer and imposes a payment system that many traditional 'purchase and upgrade when required' customers will hate. 

                             

                            Having experienced the 'we are turning your software off' message after the credit card number we were using changed I can tell you that this leash around your neck and constant worry that something isn't going to work all of a sudden is very uncomfortable. The pay forever and ever and be contantly (OK we know the details, the effect is the same) checked online scenario is not welcomed at all.

                             

                            As a (very long term) CS customer having the 'pay for upgrade without further obligation to Adobe option is by far more comfortable model. Choosing when to upgrade, when to pay Adobe is by far the preferred option.

                             

                            This is a customer request - please give us the purchased upgrade options that can be used offline, that we have used and supported for years.

                            • 11. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                              W. Bravenboer Community Member

                              I don't like this development at all, give the customer the choice!

                              And there are a whole lot of other nations on this planet that don't pay 9,99 dollars, but a lot more...

                              • 12. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                benwiggy Community Member

                                I'm absolutely appalled by this move by Adobe. I'll continue using CS6 until my hardware/OS won't support it anymore, and then I'll be looking for alternatives.

                                 

                                I refuse to pay a sub in order to access my files. Photoshop, Illustrator: I can open in other apps, but ID is proprietary format. I don't know what I'll do about my InDesign files.

                                • 13. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                  Was DYP Community Member

                                  Maybe time to go back to Quark.

                                  • 14. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                    benwiggy Community Member

                                    Back to Quark? Truly, between a rock and a hard place!

                                    It will be interesting to see if Quark offers conversion from ID to woo customers back.

                                    • 15. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                      Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                      Or you can continue to use CS6 and not get any new features. Perhaps someday there will be improvements to footnotes in CC, but until then I'm not sure waht those of us in print will see as being of overwhelming value.   I have to say that I've had more than one career in my lifetime, but I've never rented the tools of my trade other than special-purpose tools that cost tens of thousands of dollars and were needed only for a day or two, never to be used again.

                                      • 16. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                        Was DYP Community Member

                                        What incentive will Adobe have to produce new features or even fix bugs once they get you hooked on CC.  And once they get that revenue stream from your CC addiction you will pay monthly or no software to use, crappy full of bugs or not.

                                         

                                        Without any real alternatives withdrawal could be painful.

                                        • 17. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                          TᴀW Community Member

                                          QuarkXPress seem to be trying hard to rally. They're now on version 9.5,

                                          and offering an upgrade route from ANY previous version of Quark. I wish

                                          them well. We all stand to gain from the competition.

                                          • 18. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                            James_233 Community Member

                                            I've already checked out Quark and some graphics packages.

                                            1. To upgrade to Quark 9.7 costs £300 (I have Quark 7.x). Plus InDesign to Quark software £149. Plus Gluon add ons (for things which are inbuilt in InDesign) £143. Not sure if the prices include VAT. So if you do not upgrade for 2 or 3 years then it will pay for equivalent for rent from Adobe. And you have a perpetual licence. But Quark covers just InDesign, not the rest of the Adobe package. So the Quark option is expensive.

                                             

                                            I'll also look at Pages again but as far as I can recall it isn't a professional package for print publishing.

                                             

                                            2. I use only InDesign, Illustrator and a little bit of Photoshop for work (could use CorelPaint as a replacement for Photoshop). I have to look at chart software now because there is a glitch in Illustrator with Mountain Lion: the data sheet cells get selected/deselected when the mouse passes over them, very inconvenient. Unlikely that Adobe will fix that for CS6.

                                             

                                            Possible chart replacements: at one extreme is OmniGraphSketcher (plus the Chartwell fonts for simple pies), at the other is DataGraph which I haven't looked into much because the manual is written by a geek, but shall struggle on with it over the next week or so. Shall also look around for other charting options.

                                             

                                            For vector graphics (office diagrams): OmniGraffle which has a few good features that Illustrator lacks. I don't need the marvellous artwork stuff in Illustrator.

                                             

                                            Unfortunately so far as I have looked, none of the alternatives to Illustrator have Pantone support. Shall have to see if there are add-ons/other software which will help, or I can import directly into Quark (or other) and recolour there.

                                             

                                            3. Except for the Illustrator charts, I think I can hang onto CS6 for at least a couple of years, maybe longer if my clients do not upgrade, by which time Adobe may have come to its senses and/or there are new alternatives to its products.

                                             

                                            Shows how bad it is to have a company monopolising the market, so maybe the silver lining is that new products will be developed, in which case we may say: "Thanks, Adobe".

                                            • 19. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                              AttilaHan Community Member

                                              Creative Cloud may have a promotion NOW for existing "perpetual licence" customers: but how long before the Bait and Switch?

                                              • 20. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                Was DYP Community Member

                                                When it comes to future CC versions I guess this answers the question about being forced to upgrade or does it?

                                                 

                                                http://blogs.adobe.com/dreamweaver/2013/03/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud.html

                                                 

                                                Myth #5: I will be forced to always run the latest version of the software

                                                You are not forced to upgrade. You can continue to run which ever versions of the software that you want until YOU are ready to upgrade. This is crucial for workflows that involve working with clients or vendors that may not be on the latest versions of the software. You can continue using your current version of the product for one full year after the subsequent version is released.

                                                 

                                                So CS6 has been out for a year now. You can no longer use CS5 NOW!

                                                IS THIS THE FUTURE WITH CC????

                                                • 21. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                  Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                                  AttilaHan wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Creative Cloud may have a promotion NOW for existing "perpetual licence" customers: but how long before the Bait and Switch?

                                                  The incentive deals are a discount off the FIRST YEAR of a subscription, so after that you pay wahtever the going rate happens to be.

                                                  • 22. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                    Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                                    Was DYP wrote:

                                                    You can continue using your current version of the product for one full year after the subsequent version is released.

                                                     

                                                    So CS6 has been out for a year now. You can no longer use CS5 NOW!

                                                    I believe that this has technically always been the case with an UPGRADE. You have been allowed to keep the old version active for a previously undefined transition period.

                                                    • 23. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                      Was DYP Community Member

                                                      If you choose not to upgrade that was not the case.

                                                       

                                                      Now you have no choice.

                                                      • 24. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                        Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                                        I think you misinterpret what they are saying (or I'm not understanding you). As far as I know there will not be an AdobeCC2, 3, 4.. etc., just continual updates pushed as they become available. Should you decide to stay with your CS6 perpetual license, you can continue to use that in perpetuity, but if you decide to upgrade that license to CC you have a year in which you can continue to run both. Likewise, I think, they are saying you are not forced to update the CC apps as soon as a new patch/feature is released, but the expectation is you will do so yearly.

                                                        • 25. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                          Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                                          I should add that we could certainly use some clarification from Adobe on that point.

                                                          • 26. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                            mpc999 Community Member

                                                            "I believe that this has technically always been the case with an UPGRADE. You have been allowed to keep the old version active for a previously undefined transition period."

                                                             

                                                            That should not be the case with perpetual licences. (I'd have to check the EULA, but don't have the time right now.) It hasn't been an issue up to now. I keep CS4, CS5, CS5.5 and CS6 all running and work in whatever version my client uses. Heck, Adobe even helped CS2 users keep their versions alive when they shut down their activation server for CS2.

                                                             

                                                            But this "one year" statement in Myth 5 worries me. It is not clear if they are just referring to CC versions going forward, or whether it is for all older versions. They need to clarify this statement.

                                                             

                                                            I don't know if they can legally cancel my "perpetual" licences for older software (CS6 and below). But if they can, and I am forced to work in CC, that would mean that if I ever stop my subscription, I can't open any of my files.

                                                            • 27. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                              benwiggy Community Member

                                                              .. and who knows what the going rate will be in 2 years' time?

                                                               

                                                              Sorry, but this is clearly a money-raking scam because people aren't upgrading as frequently as Adobe would like.

                                                              • 28. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                                                Here's the section of the CS6 EULA that covers using previous versions:  5. Updates.  If the Software is an Update to a prior version of Adobe software (the “Prior Version”), then Customer’s use of this Update is conditional upon its retention of the Prior Version. Therefore, if Customer validly transfers this Update pursuant to Section 4.6, the Customer must transfer the Prior Version along with it. If Customer wishes to use this Update in addition tothe Prior Version, then Customer may only do so on the same Computer on which it has installed and is using the Prior Version. Any obligations that Adobe may have to support Prior Versions during the License Term may end upon the availability of this Update. No other use of the Update is permitted. Additional Updates may be licensed to Customer by Adobe with additional or different terms.

                                                                • 29. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                  mpc999 Community Member

                                                                  Oh, OK. That just means you have to keep all your versions together and not expect any more bug fixes or help ("support"). That has always been the case.

                                                                  I don't read it as implying that you can't use the software.

                                                                  I don't believe it is relevant to Adobe's statement in Myth #5.

                                                                  • 30. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                    Was DYP Community Member

                                                                    And now this.

                                                                     

                                                                    http://terrywhite.com/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud/

                                                                     

                                                                    Who is Terry White and what affiliation does he have with Adobe.

                                                                     

                                                                    Anyone find a statement from Adobe with this change?

                                                                    • 31. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                      MW Design Community Member

                                                                      just go to the about section of Terry's website.

                                                                      • 32. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                        Steve Werner ACP/MVPs

                                                                        Terry White is an Adobe evangelist and you'll find many of his videos on Adobe TV. He's often called upon to demo InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightroom, and Muse. He focuses on the Design segment of Adobe's market.

                                                                         

                                                                        He is a representative of Adobe, and Adobe has linked to the 5 Myths in their promotion material.

                                                                        • 33. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                          benwiggy Community Member

                                                                          Myth Number 4 is TRUE: If you quit your subscription, you lose the ability to open your files.

                                                                          • 34. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                            Paul_Taylor Community Member

                                                                            3 None of our print providers want to go to the  'pay for ever contract'. Our business will be adversely affected if we choose the CC model.

                                                                            Sharing means working togeter - not showing someone a page in a web browser - how lame!

                                                                             

                                                                            4 is true. Bottom line you will now have to go on paying Adobe forever and ever for you to work in the same way that you'bve been used to since these apps were introduced to the market (decade +). Even if you transition to other apps you'll not be able to use Adobe CC apps to open any of your files unless you stump up the cash every time. Being locked into and beholding to another company just to do your job is a bad move. You are no longer in control of YOUR files or have freedom to work as you please or budget as you please. 

                                                                             

                                                                            Adobe will have significant control over your business if you go the CC route.

                                                                             

                                                                            Sign the online petition agaisnt it.

                                                                            • 35. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                              Was DYP Community Member

                                                                              What online petition? Where?

                                                                              • 36. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                                Paul_Taylor Community Member

                                                                                Go to change dot org and search for

                                                                                adobe

                                                                                cloud

                                                                                 

                                                                                Nearly 1500 people have signed it since yesterday.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Message was edited - figure corrected

                                                                                • 37. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                                  W. Bravenboer Community Member

                                                                                  I am wondering if the EU laws are coming in to play, as a company can decide to raise prices, and make it impossible to open your own files, if you decide to end the contract. As end-user you are forced to pay a subscription fee to use this software. If other firms will do the same, like car-manufacturers and such, you can imagine the outcry.

                                                                                  From Adobe's viewpoint their decision makes sense; they want to get revenue, and a steady customer base, lots of people (certainly outside the US) have not upgraded for several years. Another issue is the fact that CS5, 5.5 and 6 are not really that much different, and most people are quite happy with it. So they are in many ways their own competition.

                                                                                  In the short term they will lose a lot of clients, and gain a stable CC base. In the long term, they risk that many people will look for alternatives, currently there are few, but who knows...

                                                                                  We, as a company, still work with 5.5 and very happy with it. Without the subscription system we would probably still not upgrade, as the times in Holland are really, really tight.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                                    [Jongware] MVP

                                                                                    W. Bravenboer wrote:

                                                                                     

                                                                                    [..] From Adobe's viewpoint their decision makes sense; they want to get revenue, and a steady customer base, lots of people (certainly outside the US) have not upgraded for several years. Another issue is the fact that CS5, 5.5 and 6 are not really that much different, and most people are quite happy with it. So they are in many ways their own competition.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Speaking for my office: that's only because those last versions (plural) didn't really add anything useful at all.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    E-pub exporting? No matter how much Adobe improves on it, InDesign will still be a minor tool for this because it is not the primary function -- just like its Flash Banners and Web Pages. Adding "pixels" as a measurement unit didn't help either, it only added to the confusion.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Span Columns? Sure, I'd like that -- except that it's fraught with problems! (Vide, crashing documents; extremely slow; the already suffering footnotes that were totally overseen in this).

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Document Fonts were about the only new feature that I was really keen on. (And what a pity I found an error with it handling OTF features, the very first time I used it. So much for Quality Control.)

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Add to that the extremely long start-up time (this may very well have to do with the unnecessary fragmenting of resource files into numerous small ones).

                                                                                     

                                                                                    What Adobe found was that people are unwilling to upgrade for these non-features; and it seems they invested their time and money in finding a solution for that, rather than in "better features", or -- not to ignore -- way overdue improvements on the existing ones.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: "New in InDesign CC"
                                                                                      Peter Spier ACP/MVPs

                                                                                      [Jongware] wrote:

                                                                                      E-pub exporting? No matter how much Adobe improves on it, InDesign will still be a minor tool for this because it is not the primary function

                                                                                      Based on nothing at all other than my observations of what's taken priority over the last couple of versions, I think you're going to see this change and print-centric workflows are going to take a back seat. I believe Adobe corporate (post Macromedia acquisition) thinks print is in a near-death coma and will never be revived and the only things that matter for the future are what you can put on a smartphone or tablet screen. When old folks like me finally die off they may well be right.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I wonder if footnotes will ever get an upgrade. Would that be enough to get print folk to subscribe?

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