HOW MANY PEOPLE HATE ADOBE NOW? raise your hands

This is really self-destruction decision for Adobe.

I hate the decision, certainly. And I will do everything possible to make them change their mind. Of course, that simply means voting with my wallet and not paying for CC.

I don't hate Adobe. I just simply lost all the trust I had for the company.

I hate the decision and will personally help rewrite GIMP/some other open source program before I subscribe to CC, same thing with MS Office... though I got tricked into buying that.

If I cant get the next version on disc's like normal I am out. This might work for people in the USA and UK but in Africa no go. Look what happened to Final cut when they did not listen to the customer. AVID is starting to look good again. ADOBE wake up. I have had CS4, CS5, CS5.5 and CS6 how can you do this!

Darren

Just let software continue to work after subscription expires, just stop updating it. As many other companies do.

In present form CC is no go for many people.

What if you let your subscription expire, but you can still open existing files, can't create new files. But if you need to print or export video, it has a slight watermark with clouds and the Adobe logo. Like a reverse demo version. One that you pay for first, then afterwards your get the watermark.

I hope many people will complain about this so that Adobe will have to rethink their decision. This is against all the people who bought CS or photoshop since version 1 and who invested year by year and now get totally ripped off. Sure CS 6 will continue to run, but just wait one or two processor or OS-generations and it won't do anymore and then you will have to go to the cloud. Sooner or later they will also require that you store your data in the cloud, then everything is in the hands of others. We will lose control over our things. And how safe the internet is was nicely documented with a $ 42 million robbery a few days ago by hacking credit card accounts (which are certainly more safe then Adobe's cloud). Forget it.

By the way, is there a forum or website/e-mail that the Adobe people will read certainly? Then we should make up a list where people can sign in, who disagree with Adobe's decision.

Message was edited by: Hans Peter Kuhn

Hans we already have a petition and it has over 7000 signatures now:

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creativ e-cloud-subscription-model

I agree,

I think this will give a boost to all the other possible alternatives.

I do hope so, I doubt I will ever use Adobe CC,

The good news is that my CS6 Application do all I need so unless they offer some ground breaking features only available in CC I am happy.

You're about to hate Apple soon too:

"Report: AppleCare extended warranty could become subscription-based"

The Applecare warranty has nothing to do with what Adobe is doing. A warranty being subscruption based is not a bad idea. Leasing software is a bad idea.

Most meaningful commercial software is going to move toward the leasing model. Apple's warranty subscription is just them testing the waters for such a model.

BTW, a subscription price for ANYTHING  you used to pay a one time price for is a bad idea. Guaranteed.

Another must read for people found in a recent previous thread;

Adobe Creative Cloud:  Lopsided Legal Agreement. It is not pretty:

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agree ment.html

> HOW MANY PEOPLE HATE ADOBE NOW? raise your hands

Footvote.

I hope Adobe remembers what it was like when we all liked them and believed the BS " Adobe listens".  For many those times are gone and if changes arent made to the current system we will cheer at their demise in the future.

I have no interest in purchasing a subscription product that shuts itself off when I need it most.  When I own a box copy of the software, I know I can use it, regardless of my cash flow situation. When I'm flush, I can buy an upgrade. Now when things are tight, my software vanishes in a puff of cloud and I can't get work.

You know, Adobe messed with the Flex/AIR/mobile developer base as well in the way they handled the transition away from AIR-based flex mobile apps. People who were using that technology to stay employed and then overnight it became useless. Now they are doing this. Thank again, Adobe. I don't trust the company any more. They are greedy and out of touch. Raising a hand with one finger.

davehuxtable wrote:

 

Raising a hand with one finger.

Your single finger salute has been successfully counted as a vote. Thanks for your participation.

It looks like a pretty one-sided legal agreement under which Adobe can do anything, even for no reason.

I would just like to point out that within the European Union no corporation can trample on the statutory rights of consumers. Not even a fancy lawyer from Santa Clara County, CA.

Hans we already have a petition and it has over 7000 signatures now:

 

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-t he-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

Looks like that’s going to hit 15,000 by end of today. But still only an annoying mosquito buzz to Adobe.

Yeah, when you're a monopoly, you pretty much have free reign to do what you want.

A while back our electric company started tacking on this "Full Cost Surcharge".  When you called them up, they could not give you a reason why it was there or what it was for.  After a couple months, it started costing more than the actual electricity itself, in essence doubling our bill.  This went on for months.  Then all of a sudden it stopped.  An investigation into it was done by the state, and they found no criminal wrong doing.

Don't get me wrong, I love America and wouldn't want to live anywhere else.  But America is corrupt to the freaking core.  I have no delusions.  Capitalism is about nothing more than greed.  Adobe is a monopoly; they have free reign to do what they want, and no petition or investigation will change that.  Heck, what does the government think would happen if they DID find Adobe at fault?  Any fine levied onto Adobe would simply be passed on to its customers.  That's business 101.

Adobe only understands  $$$.  A DDoS that takes down their site would prevent them from doing business through it, and that would get their attention.  But again, any loss would just be passed onto the innocent consumer.  What we need is an alternative to Adobe.  And software that can readily replace what Adobe has pretty much bought out in the past isn't just laying around.

The best thing that can be done is to abstain from business with Adobe.  Make due with what you have.  Convince others not to buy into Adobe.  I've been badmouthing them to as many people whom have authority over their company's IT purchases as possible (networking, baby!) and I could easily say right now that I'm keeping a good $50,000 from Adobe's coffers.  Got a lot of IT managers to go with the "We'll make due with what we have" mentality.

Adobe's become very stagnant; if you look at PS CC vs PS CS5 (and even a couple versions before that), there really isn't that much different between them.  Being a Monopoly, Adobe has gotten lazy and will not innovate.  Uprevving versions does not a progress make.

UBER HATRED is that a word. My hand is very high in the air. As one post said what has A-DOBE created vs what they have bought. Adobe is nothing nut a wall street run company. it poses as a cool creative group but they suck and just buy folks out. They cannot create all they can do is buy and ruin. Who will come along and make some killer software that makess us all look back and laugh at Adobe. I hope in 20 years kids ask Adobe "wahts that" I hope to see Adobe replaced by a comany with integrity

Adobe, you are out of control. I hope you are thinking of offering BOTH OPTIONS, so we have a choice. My business cannot afford to RENT a software. I might have to close!

count me in on this. They need to be bought sold disolved somehing a major change. I wish a tycon would just step in and buy them out and put the company on track.

001andrew wrote:

 

count me in on this. They need to be bought sold disolved somehing a major change. I wish a tycon would just step in and buy them out and put the company on track.

Would it not have to be for sale on the market in order for anyone to buy them?

You already have the major change by Adobe, whereas they are working on a business model vastly different than they have ever tried.

I don't hate Adobe, just that there will be no Photoshop CS products or other viable non subscription based Adobe alternatives to the Creative Cloud after CS6.

Hate is a strong word.... and for me it comes out of loving adobe products for so long and then being beytrayed by them...

As well as voicing your concerns with your wallet you can also complain to:

The FTC https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ or your local Better business bureau

if your are in europe the EU competition can be helpful email: comp-greffe-antitrust@ec.europa.eu

Adobe may have actually crossed some criminal lines with this cloud debacle... short term good for profits
long term disaster... lack of consultation with its user base displays arrogance and ignorance..and is truly a shame

Adobe think that now they no longer need to impress people into buying upgrades, they can sit back, and passively watch the money roll in forever.

They think they can stop improving their products, stop fixing the many bugs, stop developing meaningful non-gimmick new features and stop improving the flawed old ones.

It might work for a year or two - but the competitors will catch up, and the moment they do - the moment they even start to get close - Adobe will begin losing customers like flies.

If you're angry about this, help the competitors. Download or get demos of Corel's suites, Autodesk's design software, and the open source guys (GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus). Every time you find yourself missing the Adobe equivalent, tell the manufacturers or community precisely what it is they are lacking, in detail, so they can improve. Every time you find something difficult to learn how to do, if there are no tutorials, make one. If they respond, it won't be long before they're better than their Adobe competitors, improving faster, and more in touch with their customers.

The company I work for have two systems  running Adobe CS5 indesign and wanted to upgrade and when they found out that they must pay each month they decided to look at other products. just think of this: 6 weeks ago the South African rand was around 9 Rand to the US dollar today it was 10.20 is this fair DONT THINK SO, YOU SHOULD WAKE UP NOW. With a bit of luck Avid might give us Pr users a deal soon.

Dax

it seems Adobe has become the product they supplanted (Quark). When Quark ruled the world they were notorious for their disdain for their customers. Now that Adobe rules the world it seems thier arrogance has gotten the better of them. However disdain for customers is never a good plan.

We all have been scammed.   The cloud is a joke.  Online storage is cheap and everywhere.. that is no value.  Where is the team functionality, real folder sharing collaboration, project workflow, anything?  This is just license monitoring.  Who's ready to go back to the old days and raise that pirate flag?

I hate Adobe now with a passion that makes my previous love of them pale in comparison.  It's a defense mechanism from realizing they saw me as nothing more than an open wallet for them to take money from.

All you can do as a consumer is close your wallet and get others to abandon Adobe as best they can.  Make do with what you have.  I have CS5, and I see these people say "Well, we're not going to do CC because that's garbage, so I guess we'll just upgrade to CS6".  And I tell them "Don't even give Adobe THAT money for the trivial upgrade."

The only power a consumer has is their support.  With as monopolisic as Adobe is to the creative software game, they have everyone over a barrel and they figured "What better time than to raise prices than during a recession?".  I will run my copy of CS5 into the ground.  When I get to a point where I cannot use it any longer, I will look for alternatives.

The new CC business model is like:

Me: "I would like to buy a new car."

Adobe: "OK, that'll be 2x what you were expecting to pay."

Me: "2x?  But I can't afford that.  I only budgeted for an amount I paid for my last purchase. Why is 1 car now 2x as expensive?"

Adobe: "Oh, that's the great part, we'll give you 3 cars for 2x the price of 1."

Me: "But I don't need all those cars, I only need 1."

Adobe: "Well, we can sell you a car that doesn't meet your needs for only 1.5x the cost of your last car, but it's a much better deal to just pay 2x and get 3 great cars."

Me: "Can I give the car to someone else?"

Adobe: "No, you can only use 1 car at a time.  But you can use any of the 3 cars."

Me: "That's very wasteful.  How much is this 'deal'?"

Adobe: "100% more than your previous car payment."

Me: "But for how long?"

Adobe: "Indefinitely."

Me: "What?! But what happens when I need a new car?"

Adobe: "That's the great part, we give you the new car for FREE when it comes out."

Me: "For that to make sense, the car would have to come out often.  When is the next new car coming out?"

Adobe: "Whenever we feel like it.  Could be tomorrow, but chances are it'll be years from now.  You're completely at our mercy."

Me: "Do I get all the best trim of the new car when it comes out, or just the base trim?"

Adobe: "You get the best of the best, all the bells and whistles."

Me: "How many features?"

Adobe: "However many we want to put in.  We could have hundreds but chances are we'll just put in like 10 new things.  Remember, when you own the only plant that makes cars, you can set the bar as low as you want."

Me: "So I pay 100% more, indefinitely, for cars that come out when YOU want them to, and are equipped with as many things that YOU deem?"

Adobe: "Exactly!"

Me: "Can I stop payments when the new versions come out and just keep what I have?"

Adobe: "Absolutely not.  You stop paying, and we take your cars away."

Me: "So that I'm left with absolutely nothing buy a complete loss of money."

Adobe: "Now you get it!  Welcome to the Cloud!"

Me: "...No wonder you called in the 'Cloud'.  Cause you guys have got to be DREAMING if you think I'm going to do any of this.  Get your head OUT of the Clouds, Adobe."

Aegis Kleais wrote:

 

I hate Adobe now with a passion that makes my previous love of them pale in comparison.

+1

You know what else pisses me off?

That Adobe CC probably is the best solution for me since I live in Ukraine and am planing to move to Israel.

Because in Ukraine Adobe's CS6 ukrainian language version is on permanent sale with 70% discount. And I don't need that, I need an English version.
Most of the tutorials are in English, and it's much easier to read all the UI in English than to do so in Ukrainian.

The English version of CS6 is simply uneffortable here in Ukraine since the price is to high for average person (which I am).

So I thought "why buy an expensive CS6 if it's much easier to pay a small amount of money each month for the hi-end software?"

But Adobe does not distribute CC in Ukraine, and I can't even buy it through my relatives in Europe and US, because of some legal stuff.

I hate Adobe's executives with all my passion, 'cause they're just about stuffing their pockets with that green pappers

I think I'm going to use alternative software. Bye-bye, Adobe freaks!

I have not posted on the Adboe forums for MONTHS as for one thing I don't like the new forum layout. And I used to be a fairly regula poster! Another reason, and I suppose this is good a thread to announce this, I have recently become ann EX-ADOBE user. That's right, no more mainstream Adobe programs for me, other than Flash Player.

What do I use now? CorelDraw X6. I bought the upgrade at a good price and took advantage of Corel's CS4 or higher upgrade policy. What this shows I guess is that as much as Adobe thinks it's CC is a good idea, others such as Corel will will see this as an opportunity to poach former Adob users such as me.

So do I HATE Adobe? Not really sure if hate is the right word. However, I do feel disapointed in them and indeed also a distinct lack of trust and goodwill towards them as a company and as a brand. If others feel the same, then this could be just as serious if not more so than just a matter of Dollars, Pounds, Euro, Yen, Rupees, Dinars, Rands and Rubles!

Long term, a loss of goodwill can do a lot of damage to a brand even if the business behind it is still doing well financially in the short term. People who use Adobe products may well feel less loyalty and as a result will jump ship as soon as a viable alternativepresents itself. I did with CD X6. Others may do the same with Xara, Gimp, Ikskape and so on.

Adobe's lack of a true justification or explaination of it's brave new world is also rapidly fuelling the anger and disquiet towards them. Not good.

If Adobe offered a respectable price for CC apps on a per application price AND a "Suite" combos.

If they are selling 17 apps for $50 a month, you should be able to get "Suite" packages (Web/Print, Video) for about $25/mo.  I would actually pay perpetually at that price point for the latest software, even through a subscription model.  It's all the software I want/need, but for them to throw 9 more applications in and force twice the price, it's just the epitome of idiocy.

I can understand SINGLE apps being marginally more expensive, but it would be something like this:

1 app, $15/mo each.

Suite (Web/Print) or (Video): $25/mo

Cloud (All Apps) $50/mo

That would have been acceptable to me.  I'm not as against the Subscription model (it has its flaws, and QA seems to be an afterthought), but their screwed up ala carte system is the reason why I'm refusing.

Ian C. Matthew wrote:

 

I have not posted on the Adboe forums for MONTHS as for one thing I don't like the new forum layout. And I used to be a fairly regula poster! Another reason, and I suppose this is good a thread to announce this, I have recently become ann EX-ADOBE user. That's right, no more mainstream Adobe programs for me, other than Flash Player.

 

Same for me here: long time Adobe user (since Photoshop v3), and nine months ago I decided to jump of the Adobe bandwagon. Funny thing is, I also only use the Flash plugin and that is the only software on my machine that crashes on a daily basis, often multiple times a day.

It is quite amazing how many loyal Adobe users have decided to leave for new pastures. I would have NEVER left, if not for the stupendously irrate and insane decisions by Adobe Corporate management in the last five years or so.

What do I use now? CorelDraw X6. I bought the upgrade at a good price and took advantage of Corel's CS4 or higher upgrade policy. What this shows I guess is that as much as Adobe thinks it's CC is a good idea, others such as Corel will will see this as an opportunity to poach former Adob users such as me.

 

For me, Photoline has been an eye-opener to me. None of the 3d or video bloat, and a strong focus on professional image editing features with a layer stack system that out-performs Photoshop in many ways. It's workflow is just better, in my opinion. Together with Anime Studio and Manga Studio I get superior painting and animation capabilities. For 3d work Blender and 3DCoat out-pace Photoshop by light years.

Honestly, Dreamweaver and Flash have been lacking and lagging compared to the competition for years now, and can easily be replaced by open source, free and commercial alternatives. Lightworks, Avid, Vegas: all great Premiere alternatives.

 

So do I HATE Adobe? Not really sure if hate is the right word. However, I do feel disapointed in them and indeed also a distinct lack of trust and goodwill towards them as a company and as a brand. If others feel the same, then this could be just as serious if not more so than just a matter of Dollars, Pounds, Euro, Yen, Rupees, Dinars, Rands and Rubles!

 

Long term, a loss of goodwill can do a lot of damage to a brand even if the business behind it is still doing well financially in the short term. People who use Adobe products may well feel less loyalty and as a result will jump ship as soon as a viable alternativepresents itself. I did with CD X6. Others may do the same with Xara, Gimp, Ikskape and so on.

 

Adobe's lack of a true justification or explaination of it's brave new world is also rapidly fuelling the anger and disquiet towards them. Not good.

Don't hate the brand name, or the hard-working developers and grunts of the company - the current negative mood is mostly caused by the corporate heads of Adobe and the shareholders. Their first allegiance is to the God of Money, not to Adobe's customers. This has caused Adobe to become a soulless glutonnous behemoth on a road to self-destruction.

There is no good or evil in this: it is the natural outcome of a wisdomless greed for more and more money. So the best approach to starve the "Beast" is to take away its source of power: money. Vote with your wallet, and invest in alternatives.

I foresee the good in the long run : all in all, this move by Adobe Corporate Management forces the market to open up again to alternatives - which can only be a good thing!