20 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2015 7:05 AM by BizEdLogic

    Substitute for Fireworks ?


      Hello, Adobe


      I was looking forward to see the new version of Fireworks CC (as well as other people) and  got extremely disappointed when heard that it was simply abandoned.


      It was stated (http://blogs.adobe.com/fireworks/2013/05/the-future-of-adobe-fireworks.html#comments) :


      "Designing for the screen in 2013 is incredibly different to designing for the screen in 1998. As we considered adding new capabilities to Fireworks, we came to the conclusion that creating new, task-focused tools would better enable us to meet the future needs of web designers and developers."


      I've got some questions to clarify:


      1) Does Adobe plan to make a modern substitute for Fireworks? Or not?


      2) When will this happen (please tell approximate date) ?


      It's important to mention, that neither Photoshop nor Illustrator can substitute Fireworks (and what is more important, they mustn't do this!!!). I won't state the reasons for that as many people already wrote them in separate threads and here - http://blogs.adobe.com/fireworks/2013/05/the-future-of-adobe-fireworks.html#comments


      May be poor sales made you drop the further development of Fireworks, but from my point of view it's a lack of good marketing campaing. Fireworks wasn't given enough dedication since it's born. People simply don't know what Fireworks can offer them, and do webdesign in Photoshop or even Illustrator what is oddly.


      Fireworks was never advertised as good as Photoshop and it was so frustrating to see that Photoshop started to become an all-in-one software and Fireworks lacked support. Such a piece of software (Photoshop) doesn't have future if it's bundled with everything . It will be too overwhelmed with different options and features - as the consequence, too complicated to use, huge in memory usage and so on.


      I know, you are aware of all these reasons. And that is why I'm completely confused about your decision to abandon Fireworks

      You have such a great software like Dreamweaver, Indesign, Illustrator and so on. Talented engineers, evangelists. So why drop Fireworks?


      Fireworks is one of the major stages of my webdesign workflow. That's why I need to know - do you plan to make such a software that will substitute Fireworks, or we, Fireworks users, should look somewhere else for that type of software? (I don't mean to be rude - it's simply a question I want to get answer to)


      P.S. Make webdesign in Photoshop is a torture if to compare with Fireworks. Illustrator is good for precise logo design but a very strange decision for complete webdesign process. It will be much more reasonable to continue the support for Fireworks or even rebuild it from the ground up if needed. People will love a good product and sales'll be high. It's still a mystery for me why Fireworks doesn't get love from Adobe


      Best regards.

        • 1. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
          grafikundso Level 1

          heya, you won´t get any reaction from adobe here.

          ad 1) no substitute gonna come

          ad 2) see ad 1)


          and there is not mystery at all, why should they let a programm alive, which do all the things 5 other programs do.

          but yes, CC and discontinung FW are the worst decisions since years.

          • 2. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
            Paevo Kelley Level 2

            I HATE using PS for web design. I am always left completely stymied by its unintuitiveness. FW practically thinks for you and increases your work flow exponentially, which is vital if you are both a designer and web developer like me.


            I am extremely angry about this but will purchase FW CS6 and use it as long as I can (I currently use FW CS3 and love it!). I hate bloated PS files and delete them on my computer mercilessly...

            • 3. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
              LinxFlasher Level 1

              I see your point, but you know, Photoshop and Illustrator are specialized in their own fields. Photoshop is great for photo manipulation and digital drawing. Illustrator is good at logos, vector illustrations and so on. Fireworks's purpose - website creation (prototyping, design) and UI.


              May be they simply decided to convert Photoshop, their flagman ship, into all-ine-one solution for photos and webdesign which drives me crazy.

              Photoshop is good, but if you make website, compare the time spent and ease of Fireworks and Photoshop. Here Photoshop is no match at all to Fireworks.


              I've recently watched Adobe Max 2013 where they demonstrated new features of Photoshop. Guess what? They made possible fast slicing in Photoshop (like you could do in Fireworks akmost in the same manner many years ago) and export to Adobe Reflow (programm for making responsive layout). That export feature to Adobe Reflow should be integrated into Fireworks, but they abandoned it and inserted into Photoshop. Looks crazy


              I like Adobe, they do amazing things, but why drop Fireworks?


              P.S. Are there any software out there which is similar to Fireworks? I'll keep on using CS6 till it's viable, but with the passage of time I guess there'll be a need to switch...

              • 4. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                LinxFlasher Level 1

                Paevo Kelley, you're right - those bloated PS files are crazy. I also do webdesign and write code - Fireworks is big for that. Why Adobe chose that way with Photoshop ....

                • 5. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                  Alex James Morris

                  @Linxflasher - we posted an update to the Fireworks announcement post. I trust that answers your questions and reassures you that we're actively working on a suitable successor.

                  Does Adobe care about Fireworks customers?

                  Absolutely – we understand that web designers love Fireworks  for it’s unique approach to page-based, stateful interaction design and rapid prototyping, and that it is an essential part of the web design process.

                  Why isn’t Fireworks being developed further?

                  Designing for the screen in 2013 is incredibly different to designing for the screen in 1998. As we considered adding new capabilities to Fireworks, we came to the conclusion that creating new, task-focused tools would better enable us to meet the future needs of web designers and developers.

                  What new tools is Adobe proposing to create for web design?

                  Adobe has embarked on creating a new collection of tools and services aimed at addressing the needs of today’s web designer – we’ve started with focusing on responsive layout, web animation and HTML, CSS and JavaScript code editing and are delivering new Edge tools to address these use cases. We are actively working on next-generation solutions for screen design and prototyping that we hope our existing Fireworks customers will love.  The show of support for Fireworks from the community has reaffirmed our belief that Adobe should continue to deliver dedicated tools for web designers – what follows Fireworks CS6 will be an revolutionary leap, designed from the ground up with the needs of the modern web designer front and center. To do this we need your help. We’d love to hear about how you work, what challenges you face, where you experience the most pain in your day to day design processes.  If you’d like to join us in the process of creating these new tools then please sign-up here.

                  Will Fireworks continue to be available?

                  Yes, Fireworks CS6 will continue to be available as a standalone product and as part of a Creative Cloud membership.

                  Should I continue to use Fireworks?

                  Yes, if Fireworks CS6 is part of your current workflow then there is no reason to make any changes to your use of the product. Adobe will continue to provide support for Fireworks CS6

                  Is Adobe really going to fix any of the existing bugs in Fireworks?

                  Yes, Adobe is already planning to release an update for Fireworks CS6 in the coming weeks that addresses over 25 reported issues, including the “File not found” issue on Mac OS 10.8 often experienced when exporting from the Image Preview dialog.

                  Is Adobe proposing that existing Fireworks customers switch to Photoshop?

                  Photoshop is a major part of the design process, but we know that Fireworks offers something unique that has made it an essential part of the web designer’s toolkit. While Photoshop is continuing to add features and workflows to support web designers, whether or not it is a good replacement for Fireworks will depend on individual needs and preferences.

                  • 6. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                    LinxFlasher Level 1

                    Thanks for your answer!


                    I've checked the post. Glad to hear that you'll make a suitable successor. That's great! I'll definitely keep track of the information.


                    FW is great and with good support (like Photoshop and Illustrator have now) it's successor will be amazing. I hope for this

                    • 8. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                      Simon Darby - NZ Level 1

                      Add your voice (comment) to the over 1,000 replies this post from Adobe got...



                      We need to apply more pressure to Adobe to put Fireworks in the CC suite or at least setout a development path.

                      • 9. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?

                        I can't believe that, ADOBE CEO is blaming Fireworks about their own mistakes and incompetence? This is the greed of this company... I keep using Fireworks MX and I can say, nothing better than the original!

                        • 10. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                          Simon Darby - NZ Level 1

                          Well add your voice to that bog post by Adobe - over 1,000 unhappy customers. Keep the pressure on Adobe...

                          http://blogs.adobe.com/fireworks/2013/05/the-future-of-adobe-fireworks .html#comment-4658

                          • 11. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?

                            I think most of us feel this way. Macromedia created a fantastic graphics tools for web design and UX workflows.The time it saves you in being able to interact directly with objects in the workspace without having to continually screw with the layers panel - is, in itself, gold.


                            Adobe, however, did what they typically do. They f**ked up a good thing. Photoshop is a powerful tool for print and high-end multimedia design, but is very bloated and convoluted for UX workflows. Fireworks is simple, efficient, fast and intuitive. The grand irony here is that the same end users they're alienating with this move are the same users they should be hiring to fix their overly-complicated, over-bloated, time-consuming software. They need to stop selling additional features and start putting all of their efforts into simplifying and streamlining workflows.


                            If Adobe were smart, they would see the potential in nudging Photoshop's marketing back to the high-end market (print, 3D integration, integration with After Effects and video editing programs, etc.) and push Fireworks toward the thousands of already existing web designers, UX designers and instructional designers who use visual software regularly, but don't need higher-end, advanced features.


                            Adobe, once again ... you are f**king up!

                            • 12. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?

                              For some reason the comments are closed on that thread on the blog, but I've been meaning to vent this for a while - I'm yet another of the many many designers out there that use fireworks EVERY day. Its by no means a perfect product, but for designing for web there is no other substitute. As everyone else says, PS is far too clunky. Fireworks workflow is great. Surely the best option for web designers would be to update Fireworks to be an all-in-one for making designing for web quick and easy? Thats what we've been wanting for years and we've got so close! I think I speak for a lot of people when I say the perfect idea would be to keep Fireworks and add the following functionality:


                              Smart objects

                              All bitmaps are automatically 'smart objects' - if you paste a bitmap into a page you can adjust the dimensions just by dragging the corners - just like fireworks currently offers - except you won't distort the image if you make the image bigger again


                              Photoshop compatibility

                              Paste a psd from Photoshop and retain the photoshop effects


                              Illustrator compatibility

                              Paste a vector from illustrator and retain the grouping/effects


                              Responsive layout

                              Add a tab that offers similar functionality to reflow which allows you to quickly manipulate your design for a responsive layout


                              Font Aliasing

                              Crisp, sharp fonts, at any size ie. how it will look on the web.


                              Export for web

                              Create a quick and easy tool that exports all pages in your project to a URL to visualise the pages online. (ahem, http://www.invisionapp.com) Having this intergrated would be such a time saver.


                              Draw circles!

                              No more circles that come out looking square!



                              Stop the crashes



                              Keep the fireworks interface. It's great. the shortcuts are quick and easy to use, and make sense. Creating pages is easy, making a gradient is quick and simple, adding text and moving elements around the page is a breeze. If its not broken, don't fix it!


                              In my opinion this would create the perfect app for designing for web - I'm sure a lot of people would agree.

                              • 13. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                Laura S

                                I'm annoyed at this as well. I never used Fireworks to design web layouts (well, once) but rather to finish off webcomic pages. Its range of functions (like spell checking) and easy creation and manipulation of vector objects) made it perfect for adding and styling text and speech balloons.


                                I still have Fireworks CS5 from the CS5 Design Premium package I bought. I investigated if there was an upgrade path to CS6 but because I bought this as a student (doing a Masters in Fine Arts) there wasn't, and the Adobe rep tried to sell me on Creative Cloud instead.   NOT WHAT I WANTED.


                                Of course I have Illustrator as well, but Fireworks did EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED and was very easy to use - something less true with Illustrator.

                                • 14. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?

                                  I agree with everything said here.


                                  What's better in Adobe's eyes may not suit a large section of the (web) designer community. To date (and that's a number of years) I've personally always preferred the ease of Fireworks to Photoshop, but given that it's now being dropped I'll rather reluctantly move to Photoshop. i could contimnue to use Fireworks under CS6, but what's the point if its going to become redundent and as noted above increasingly incompatible with CC products. How frustrating that you can't even currently paste vectors into Fireworks from Illustrator. Yes I know this will be fixed, but it sets a precedent that can't be ignored.

                                  • 15. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                    Simon Darby - NZ Level 1

                                    Just my opinion. Most of Adobe's customers that use Fireworks want it retained. What I do now hope is that a new 'Fireworks-like' app is released by one of the indie developers, perhaps through the Apple App Store. A bit more competition in the market is what Adobe needs to get it focused.


                                    If I were advising Adobe and they were listening to designers, I would say that:


                                    Photoshop is too heavy an application to adapt to the changing needs of designers, thanks to its roots in print design. Photoshop failed to develop the nimbleness of Fireworks that works well in a fast creative process which is the real world of design today. I've been to plenety of Adobe presentation on Photoshop and the people presenting have a very limited view of the real world. They talk a good story, but it's still a bloated application.


                                    For designers of print, Illustrator and InDesign work well. The attempt by Adobe to make these apps universal media design or prototype tools fails to fire. Adobe would be better creating smaller apps that easily access the assets from Illustrator and InDesign for interactive media. That brings me to the UI in these apps. Seriously, do the UI teams never talk? How hard can it be to standardize the same functions after all the effort that went into CC? We are starting to see some good software that will give Illustrator a run for its money, especially as better technology in scalable hybrid bitmap/vectors (like Mischief) catch on, which may be the future of a Fireworks-like app. With the print design market getting smaller, InDesign will probably remain at the top, but for Adobe, it's not likely to be a big money spinner in the future. Adobe seem obsessed with preserving the print market.


                                    Aside from the video tools, that leaves Dreamweaver. Sadly this application has not developed enough, it could have worked much better with Fireworks. It's stuck between two worlds, novice and expert. Muse is, like its name, not really to be taken too seriously, but for anyone starting into design it's probably the last place to start. Muse is not a path to becoming a competent web designer, Dreamweaver is better as it allows the designer to grow into the application. But for experienced web designers, Dreamweaver does not offer much if anything more than TextWrangler.


                                    The point here is that Adobe is losing its way by failing to understand how designers work in the real world. Fireworks is the perfect example of Adobe being unable to understand its place in the design world. What I see from the outside appears to be disfunctional product planning.


                                    If Adobe think Fireworks is dead, then maybe someone will take it off their hands for a dollar, and then let's see where it goes.

                                    • 16. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                      BizEdLogic Level 1

                                      It appears that Fireworks CS6 is no longer being supported and its successor Animate has yet to be released.

                                      • 17. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                        Herbert2001 Level 4

                                        Animate is NOT a successor to Fireworks: Animate is the re-branded Flash with improved web integration and export.

                                        • 18. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                          BizEdLogic Level 1

                                          When I spoke to an Adobe tech support rep, he said that Animate and not Animate Edge was the heir apparent to Fireworks. Apparently,  he had no clue. He couldn't recommend an Adobe product that could be an alternative. Not pleased. He definitely said, Photoshop was not a choice I could consider.

                                          • 19. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                            Simon Darby - NZ Level 1

                                            Having once been an avid Fireworks user, I switched over to Illustrator. While it lacks the animated GIF export (without using a script), it does a good job on most things Fireworks was useful for. Affinity Designer also looks like a worthy contender (with its sister app Affinity Photo). I have never taken to Photoshop, which just seems overly complex for rapid design work.

                                            • 20. Re: Substitute for Fireworks ?
                                              BizEdLogic Level 1

                                              Yes, I agree that Photoshop has far too much detail and complexity that made me as a user and educator to use Fireworks. Fairly, straightforward. I have Illustrator on my PC, but have never tried it. I'll look at the Affinity applications. Thanks.