17 Replies Latest reply on Jun 5, 2013 4:42 PM by ECBowen

    hardware for multicam editing in CS6

    LightPainting2

      I'm trying to do multicam editing in CS6.  I'm working with some/occasional footage from a Canon 5D MarkII SLR as well as 5+ GoPro cams at 1080p 60fps footage and 1+ hour of 1080i footage from a Canon XH-A1.  I'm editing sporting events with each of the GoPros recording over an hour of footage.  After about 3 seconds with 4 streams, the multicam editor window slows and then quickly stops displaying the video in realtime.  I can't do any editing effectively. I've read many of Harm Millaard's excellent posts, and would guess that the main bottleneck in my system is the number and configuration of drives storing my media, but there seem to be other possibilities.  The RAID discussions get comeplex.  Moreover, the disk options are manifold and I'm hoping to avoid costly experiments.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!  My system info is listed below -- note the SSD has 3GB of space left at the moment.

      Thank you in advance!

      Alexi

       

      System Core
      MotherboardAsus P8P67 Pro REV 3.0
      CPUIntel Core i7 2600K 3.4GHz Quad Core 8MB 95W
      Ram4 x Kingston DDR3-1333 4GB
      Video CardPNY Quadro 4000 PCI-E 2GB
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      spacer Comments: Video card certified for use with Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 / 5.5; if the price is higher than you want, we could scale back to the Quadro 2000, GeForce GTX 570 or 580 (all certified as well)
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      Storage
      Hard DriveIntel 320 160GB SATA II 2.5inch SSD
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      spacer Comments: Primary drive.
      Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB SATA 6Gb/s
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      spacer Comments: Secondary drive.
      CD / DVDAsus 12x Blu-ray Burner SATA (black)
      Removable DriveAtech PRO-35U USB 2.0 Internal/External Card Reader
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      Case / Cooling
      CaseCooler Master HAF 932 Advanced
      spacer
      spacer Comments: This case has the most options in terms of front connectivity of all the cases we carry: 4 x USB 2.0, 2 x USB 3.0, eSATA, Firewire, and headphone/mic ports
      Power SupplyCorsair HX 850W Power Supply
      spacer
      spacer Comments: This power supply is probably overkill for what you have in the system, but leaves plenty of headroom for future upgrades or additions; if you really don\'t expect to add anything, we could scale back to a 560 or 650W model (the system as-is should draw up to 400W at maximum load)
      CPU CoolingGelid Tranquillo Rev2
      spacer
      Software
      OSWindows 7 Professional 64-bit OEM SP1
        • 1. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          The demands you put on your system, GoPro, DSLR with multicamming are pretty heavy (A1 HDV is rather easy), so you need quite some muscle in your system. From that perspective, the 2600K will be around minimum and is pretty old, but you can easily overclock it to 4.2 GHz. The Quadro 4000 is too old a card to be of any use, go for a GTX 650 Ti Boost or GTX 660/660 Ti. Skip the GTX 5xx series. Consider changing the memory to 4 x 8GB DDR3 1600+. Add at least two additional WD Caviar Black drives and change the PSU to a gold label 750+ Corsair AX series one. The case is good.

           

          I wonder why a supplier would spec out such a dated system? Here you have a hard time finding the i7-2600K anymore, the Quadro 4000 is almost antique, the memory is pretty slow at 1333, suggesting a generation old video card like the 5xx is rather lame, so I'm not overly impressed by the offer you got. Especially the OS disk is rather slow, I would prefer a Samsung 840 Pro SSD of 128 GB and several more conventional disks.

           

          With 5+ GoPro's and DSLR and A1 material in multicam, I would look at the X79 / LGA 2011 platform and an i7-3930K CPU, but that would move into a different price category.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
            SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

            My limited experience with GoPro footage is that it can bring even a monster system to its knees playing just a single stream. May be best to convert those clips to an intermediate format such as Cineform before editing. All video should reside on a dedicated video drive, never on the system drive. If you can put two drives together as a RAID 0 for video, this will double the speed basically. I know Harm and others will recommend certain controllers for this, but a simple Windows stripe set has always suited my needs for multi-camera editing.

             

            Not sure if an SSD behaves the same as a spinning drive, but usually performance will drop as a drive gets near capacity, best to clean some stuff off if at all possible! The default for Premiere's Media Cache Database is the C: drive and it can quickly build up many GBs, even 100GB or more, of files. Best to Clean the Media Cache from time to time, and set to another drive if possible since your C: drive is not very big to start with.

             

            You can go to Edit > Preferences > Media  and hit the CLEAN button to start with

             

            Thanks

             

            Jeff Pulera

            Safe Harbor Computers

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
              LightPainting2 Level 1

              This is what I bought Oct 2011, which is why it all seems so old.  If you had to upgrade this old system, what one or two things would give the biggest bang for the buck?

              • 4. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                RjL190365 Level 4

                Personally, I would add two or three more hard drives first, then upgrade/update the GPU.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                  LightPainting2 Level 1

                  Thanks for the GoPro specific idea, Jeff.  I tried taking some 4K footage with the GoPro and it was immediately apparent that I could not indulge in anything like that!  The GoPro Cineform software gives many conversion choices, including AVI vs MOV, frame size and rate choices, low/medium/high quality settings... any suggestions for making it possible to edit many streams at once?

                  • 6. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                    LightPainting2 Level 1

                    Would you utilize them as separate drives or some sort of RAID?

                    • 7. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                      LightPainting2 Level 1

                      Holy smokes!  You are my hero.  By hitting 'clean', my SSD now has 52 GB free space!  I am such a newbie...

                      • 8. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                        LightPainting2 Level 1

                        Unfortunately, that is clearly not problem with regard to realtime editing as I still stall out after about 3 seconds.

                        • 9. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                          SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

                          I have the same Core i7-2600 with 16GB as you do and am quite happy with the HD editing performance, so I don't know that you necessarily need a new processor right away. Take any advice here with the reminder that many of the guys in this forum are into hot-rodding and bragging rights as to who has the bench benchmarks ;-)

                           

                          I don't have hands-on with transcoding the GoPro footage to the Cinform intermediate, but on a PC as a rule of thumb you will want to edit using .avi files, and then set up the frame size and frame rate to match the source footage, for instance 1080p30.

                           

                          Thanks

                           

                          Jeff

                          • 10. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Jeff,

                             

                            I recently had a question about a 4 camera GoPro Hero3 multicam edit here, so I tried it out on my machine, which is not exactly a slouch. It dropped frames like crazy. GoPro Hero 3 material will easily bring the most powerful machine to its knees. But you are right that for normal DSLR and AVCHD editing the 2600K is sufficient and more than capable to handle most materials, especially if overclocked, but GoPro is a different story. Now this may be a temporary issue and one may hope that the next release of CC will handle it better, but with CS6 this is a real bottleneck.

                            • 11. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                              LightPainting2 Level 1

                              Thanks for your great input, Harm.  What is 'CC'?  In the meantime, do you have any ideas for editing this stuff?  What's odd is that the GoPro company seems to come up with great footage -- I've seen footage and pics of scenes where they use a 50 camera array! How on earth are they editing this stuff??  What's also odd is that when I run Task Manager while editing, I'm nowhere near maxing out my CPU or RAM -- I suspect it's a matter of getting the data to the CPU that's the bottleneck, but don't know how to test this other than running the expensive experiment of buying disks, RAID controller, etc...

                              • 12. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                GoPro Hero is almost entirely CPU bound, meaning that even with lots of RAM (in my case 64 GB DDR3-2180), huge arrays (3.4+ GB/s transfer rate) , overclocked GTX 680 (226 GB/s bandwidth), my 6 core at 4.7 GHz can not handle it fast enough without dropping huge amounts of frames.

                                 

                                CC = Creative Cloud, the rental or subscription model Adobe offers for what should have been CS7.

                                • 13. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  The codec Algorithm with the player processing decides the performance of material with hardware. I do have experience with the GoPro media and Harm is absolutely correct regarding the performance with Go Pro Media if you don't convert it to Cineform. That is why Go Pro offers the free version of Cineform Studio with their GoPro Cameras. Cineform Converts the H264 media to Cineform which really lowers the compression ratio significantly. This makes the player processing for the Cineform Media far easier on the system than the original Media. Keep in mind the GoPro 3 offers 4K frames so that can really add the to the processing load.

                                   

                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                                    LightPainting2 Level 1

                                    The problem I've run into is that PP CS6 can't import .avi files created by Cineform.  I posted the issue here: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1131543

                                    Mine is the last entry in the discussion thread.  As you can see, no one has responded.  I don't suppose you have any ideas as to where to go from here?

                                    Thanks in advance!

                                    • 15. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                      I read your other post and that is something new I havnt seen. Sounds like the metadata for the file is getting corrupted. What happens if you encode the Cineform file to a different quality level?

                                       

                                      Oh btw make sure you have the AC3 update installed as well. You can get that here: http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/Download_AC3Filter

                                       

                                      Eric

                                      ADK

                                      • 16. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                                        LightPainting2 Level 1

                                        Different quality levels didn't help.  But encoding as a .mov did.  Of course with a PC, .avi is the generally recommended format.  And PuralEyes couldn't sync the encoded .mov files even though it *could* sync the original files.  Of course, the original files bring my system to a crawl, such that realtime multicam editing/switching is impossible.  I will look into the update you recommend.

                                        • 17. Re: hardware for multicam editing in CS6
                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                          If I remember correctly now that I think about this, I have heard of it before and it had to do with the audio decoding. I believe the AC3 update should fix it.

                                           

                                          BTW you have to re-encode the files to Cineform after the AC3 update.

                                           

                                          Eric

                                          ADK