Exporting Canon 5D footage - colours are washed out

[Monkey Pants Media]

Hi, I am a film student. It seems everyone but me cuts in Apple Final Cut Pro but I can't get my head around Apple as a whole and much prefer Premiere Pro. I working in CS5.5 Here is my current problem. I have the job of synching audio and video from a film shoot. The vision was shot on Canon 5D Mark II and the audio is .wav format, which was recorded on an external recorder. I need to replace the camera audio with the cleaner and more professional .wav files, and then I have to give the synched footage to another student who will edit on Final Cut Pro.  The clips are 1920 x 1080 (1.0) 23.976 fps. The clips i have received are .mov. My project settings match perfectly the footage settings. I have now tried exporting in 15 different formats, and in every single case, the colour of the exported files is very washed out compared with the original .mov file. If I give this to the editor to work with, I'll be shot I'm sure, for being so recalcitrant. It needs to be lossless and full quality. So please someone - urgently - can you help me?  I only have tomorrow to finish this and there are around 80 shots I need to synch and export in that time. Thanks,  Nicky

[joe_bloe_premiere]

First off, how are you determining that your exports are 'washed out'?

If you are evaluating the export using quicktime player... don't.

There are known gamma error issues with qt player.

It needs to be lossless and full quality.

Assuming you are on a mac, You can export to the lossless Ut codec,

or you can use the 'virtually lossless' Avid DNxHD codec.

Both are free.  Download and install for the codecs to appear

as quicktime export codec options in Media Encoder.

The other editor will need to have the same codec installed

on their system to be able to read your exported synced files.

Ut Video Codec Suite

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite

Avid Codecs 2.3.7 - DNxHD

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en423319

[Monkey Pants Media]

Hi Joe Bloe, thanks for your response. I work in Windows but it needs to end up on a Mac. I determine that the clips are "washed out" by double clicking on the files and watching them  The original .mov file from the camera is richer in colour, the blacks are blacker etc. The new file with synched sound, which has been exported (quite a few times now, trying different things) is weaker and looks a lot more tired.

Can these codecs be used for Windows also?  Thanks - Nicky

[Jim_Simon]

I determine that the clips are "washed out" by double clicking on the files and watching them

You should really be looking at these only on a properly calibrated TV from a hardware player.  It's the only way to ensure you're seeing the signal accurately.

[Monkey Pants Media]

i have also taken screen caps of similar frames from original footage and the edited/exported footage. There is a definite decline in quality and richness. I will try Avid DNxHD and see what happens... thanks. i'll get onto that now and let you know how I go.

[Monkey Pants Media]

I need to stress that whatever the final file is, needs to be importable into FCP at the other end without having to convert. So Windows AVI, for example, would not be appropriate... unless there is a way to convert Windows AVI to .mov losslessly also?

[joe_bloe_premiere]

I determine that the clips are "washed out" by double clicking on the files and watching them

Don't use quicktime (or any software player) to evaluate image quality.

I am working on a pc, and I regularly send

Avid DNxHD files to mac FCP users without issue.

I have found Avid DNxHD to be the most reliable,

high quality cross platform codec to use.

The original .mov file from the camera is richer in colour,

the blacks are blacker etc. The new file with synched sound,

which has been exported (quite a few times now,

trying different things) is weaker and looks a lot more tired.

Unless you have applied some sort of video effect in Premiere,

there should be no alteration or degradation of the image using

either of the codecs posted above.

[Monkey Pants Media]

I have installed the AVID codec now but when I try and export as a Quicktime using Avid DNxHD, I am getting a problem that I've been encountering all day.... It only exports the audio and not the video, yet the video box is checked. Has anyone else encountered this? I'm really keen to see what it looks like with the new codec...

[joe_bloe_premiere]

I am getting a problem that I've been encountering all day.... It only exports the audio and not the video,

Then, how have you been seeing "washed out" video?

Has anyone else encountered this?

Me?   Never.

[Monkey Pants Media]

I have tried a dozen or so different exports... different H.264 exports and lots of them, for example. I also tried Quicktime a few times today and each time, it only exports the audio. I hoped the codec might fix the issue. The video box is checked and I am able to go through and adjust all the video settings and I do not get an error message of any kind, but with Quicktime (only) I am only getting audio.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Be sure you have your video track visibility enabled

before you send the Sequence to Media Encoder:

[Monkey Pants Media]

Yep that's excellent thinking but it is indeed enabled  It's baffling and a little frustrating. i'm just downloading Premiere Pro 6 to see if I have better results there than with CS5.5...

[Guest]

Try to publish a screenshot with your export settings instead and, of course, screenshots that explain how you judge on video quality - odds are you'll save yourself a couple of minutes...

[Monkey Pants Media]

Boy, the planets are lined up against me today. It won't let me insert a jpeg (about 200k in size) either from my own computer or after I have uploaded to a sharing site. So here is a link to how the native Canon 5D footage looks, compared to after it has been exported via Premiere Pro CS5.5. The bottom image is the original. You can see what a difference there ishttp://s169.photobucket.com/user/monkeypantsmedia/media/Editedvsoriginal_zps1777974c.jpg.html?sort=3...

[Monkey Pants Media]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u238/monkeypantsmedia/Editedvsoriginal_zps1777974c.jpg

[joe_bloe_premiere]

As mentioned in posts #4 and #5, you can not make a true evaluation

of image quality using quicktime (or any other software player).

What is the source for the bottom image?

Is that snipped from your Premiere interface?

If so, it is not at all unusual that the two do not match.

Paging Dr. Barsik...

[Monkey Pants Media]

No,  neither are snipped from Premiere. The bottom image is the ORIGINAL from the Canon Mark II. The top image is what I got after importing into Premiere Pro CS5.5, synching sound, and then EXPORTING (without messing with the picture in any way(. That particular one is H.264. I have tried many many different exports today and it doesn't get any better than that. There is a marked difference in the quality, contrast and colour. I am trying to upload screen shots of my settings but everything has gone psycho. I've just tried five or six times to paste the two links and each time I hit the POST button, this forum gives me a message asking whether I am sure I want to leave this page? Argh. It's a frustrating day.

[Guest]

1. If you're using Internet Explorer, set it to 'Compatibility View' so as to be able to upload images.

2. So as to judge on colour shift you need at least to compare like with like. It's not clear from your screenshot how and where you watch your original footage. Is it also Windows Media Player or another player on your computer?

Also H.264 is a highly compressed 8-bit delivery codec, with which you can experience quite visible quality loss over every next encoding (generation loss). Production codecs, like mentioned above UT Video or DNxHD, let you avoid dramatic generation loss, preserving visual quality.

3. When you encode to DNxHD 4:2:2 (that's what you were doing), set Color Levels to 'RGB Levels':

Set Color Levels to '709' when you encode to DNxHD 4:4:4

DO NOT interfere with the Depth settings when encoding to DNxHD and generally avoid using 'Maximum Render Quality'.

4. Since you wisely cropped the left part of the Export Setting dialog box, it's unclear whether you see video output on exporting or not.

5. With high probability Windows Media Player won't be able to play MOV files with DNxHD codec inside. You need to play them back in QuirkTime, which, in turn, applies crooked colour management. You need to disable it. If you're on a PC with NVIDIA card, open up NVIDIA Control Panel, go to Video -> Adjust video color settings and in the How do you make color adjustments? section choose 'With the NVIDIA settings'.

[Monkey Pants Media]

Hey, this is exactly the kind of specific info I had been hoping for when I posted. Thank you. I will have a play with your suggestions and hopefully sort out the mess. I've worked in TV for a number of years, run a video production company and have been using Premiere in various forms to do all my editing for the last 5 years or so, so even though I will never be a technical genius I do have a bit of experience and it is incredibly frustrating when faced with a new issue that feels like it is just there to annoy you! This is my first experience exporting 5D to a Mac-friendly format, and nor have I ever had to export to Quicktime before (it was always .avi with my previous camera (tape), and H.264 with the current one, all with great results.) So I am grateful for your help. I will let you know how I go...

Nicky

[Monkey Pants Media]

I think we have finally cracked it. Thank you. The clips look great however there is a problem with file size - clips are coming out three or four times the size of the original.

[Monkey Pants Media]

OK, trying for the twentieth time to post these links…

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u238/monkeypantsmedia/Exportsettings_zps7f8388e1.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u238/monkeypantsmedia/resolution_zps88363385.jpg

[Monkey Pants Media]

Hooray! I just switched over to Firefox and it is letting me directly post screen shots. Here are my settings: