4 Replies Latest reply on May 21, 2013 2:40 PM by AttilaHan

    A programme for displaying camera profiles ...

    AttilaHan Level 1

      ColorThink Pro is displaying .icc profiles, but it does not have support for other types. Do you know a programme for dispalying the gamuts of DNG profiles and Canon picture style files? Thanks.

        • 1. Re: A programme for displaying camera profiles ...
          thedigitaldog MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          I know of no product that can plot a DNG profile.


          That said, plotting the gamut of a device like a camera is iffy in a number of areas. For one, the target used to build a profile itself has a gamut and it limits what the profile gamut could be. Cameras don't really have a gamut per se like we can built and plot for output devices. There are colors we can see it can't. There are 'colors' it can capture we can't see although much is done to attempt to eliminate such this from the process. The scene itself has a gamut that may mismatch to the device and there are all kinds of issues with metameric failure to deal with.


          What you could do with ColorThink is plot the processed image's gamut. If you can find a sufficiently large gamut scene (or build one), process it through, then feed a low rez version to ColorThink, you can extract all unique captured colors and plot that gamut. It would tell you the gamut of the final which will be in some RGB working space (I'd suggest ProPhoto RGB, especially if you are working with an Adobe raw processing engine which sounds like you are).

          • 2. Re: A programme for displaying camera profiles ...
            AttilaHan Level 1

            Thanks a lot for your explanations ... you're a great helper Andrew.


            I think input profiles as any other RGB profiles, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. But, if so, they must have three primaries as ordinary profiles ... is it correct? ... and are they RGB profiles? What is the difference between them and standard .icc profiles?


            I need to clarify one point in my mind ... what are the function of input profiles? Their function is to take the linear raw RGB data created after demosaicing and send them to the PCS and then from the PCS to the ProPhoto RGB (for example), isn't it? I'm sorry, I asked this question to you one more time in another topic, but I couldn't understand them completely. If their function is so, they bound the unknown gamut of camera into the known RGB color space.


            Let me try to explain in other words ...


            Please think just from the color management perspective.


            As we shoot the scene, we have analog raw data ... after passing through converter, we have 14 bit luminous raw data ... and as the third step, demosaicing process converts our single channel raw data into the 3 channels raw RGB data. The gamut of this RGB data depends on the colors of the bayer filter the camera has. Correct to this point?


            Then, we need to convert this raw RGB data into the some other known RGB color space ... and I think that the function of input profiles is to send the raw RGB data to the PCS for turning it into -for example- PRoPhoto RGB. Input profiles are one way profiles. That is, they are getting raw RGB data and send this data to the PCS. That's all, this is their job.


            raw RGB data>Input profile>PCS>a known RGB color space ... please correct, if this workflow is not correct.


            Raw RGB data at the beginning has a gamut depends on the colors of bayer filter ... we can not know it exactly ... ok. But, the gamut of input profile depends on the primaries of the profile and they are constant for a given profile. Its function is to map raw RGB (unknown gamut) to the known RGB color space. So, I think that we can know the gamut of input profiles exactly. As a result ... the gamut of cameras are not same with the gamut of input profiles. We can not know exactly the gamut of cameras, but we can know the gamut of input profiles. Wrong? And, input profiles have bounding effect on the gamut of a camera. They draw the actual boundaries for our images from the color perspective. I mean, the gamut of input profile is the first known gamut in the process of digital imaging? So, they have great importance in the process.


            I'm a little bit confused ... indeed, I need to understand what takes place in a camera after taking a shoot. Do we have such a diagram explaining the main steps of digital image capture from the point of color management ... and of course, the main steps (just titles) after opening a raw image in ACR. I think that such a diagram explaining the main color management steps can not be thought as a commercial secret.

            • 3. Re: A programme for displaying camera profiles ...
              thedigitaldog MVP & Adobe Community Professional

              These questions open up a huge can of worms! You might want to look at the ColorSync user's list (from Apple**), read the posts under the title:

              Primer on photographic exposure, etc.

              **Colorsync-users mailing list      (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com)



              ICC profiles expect output referred (raw processed data) just to begin the process. DNG profiles are built in a different part of the processing path. They are just vastly different. The options for a raw converter in terms of a device profile, what data it provides (when and where), and then all the work involved to build a profile makes this a complicated and debatable workflow.

              • 4. Re: A programme for displaying camera profiles ...
                AttilaHan Level 1

                Thank you so much for your interest and for the link ... it seems that this subject can not be understood completely without entering into the programming side of the digital imaging ... I didn't think that it would be so difficult to learn just the bold titles in the subject.