7 Replies Latest reply on May 23, 2013 12:24 AM by Pierre Devereux

    Mocha tracking of a 4K image

    Pierre Devereux Level 2

      Hi,

       

      I have a 4k file of some R3D footage that I have run through RedCineX. I export it as a 4K DNxHD MOV file. I import this into Premier, make some cuts/edits and replace with an AE comp. In AE, I reset the footage scale from 46.9% to 100%, as premier was set to scale to fit project so I could make the edit and then placed within my 4096x2160 AE project.

       

      I want to track this in mocha, and I use the MochaImportPlus plug in. If I do this, the footage in Mocha is a 1080 view of the 4K footage. If I take the comp in AE and render a 4K PNG Intermediate, import the sequence into the same AE comp and reopen the tracking in Mocha through MochaImportPlus, it opens the full 4K image.

       

      Is there a way to do without the intermediate step?

       

      Pierre Devereux

        • 1. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
          Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

          Not sure I follow you from the very beginning...

          1. DNxHD is literally for 720 and 1080 frame size only. Well, physically you can export larger frame, but every time I attempted to do that, DNxHD threw ugly artefacts...

          2. You shoot in 4k so as to get some room for panning and scaling in post, your working frame size is 1080. So, why do you downscale 4k footage to 1080?

           

          If it were me, I wouldn't transcode R3D footages for bringing them into PrPro at all (as we actually discussed). I'd rather set the Playback Resolution to 1/4 and make rough cuts. Then I would bring those cuts into AE and think of whether I really need to track 4k footage or 1080 intermediate since my AE comp is 1080.

           

          I'd also transcoded to JPEG 2000 rather than PNG. Mocha may have issues with reading high bit depth JPEG 2000, but you don't need high bit depth so as to do a tracking job.

           

          My five pennies...

          • 2. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
            Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

            The 4K version of DNxHD to my knowledge actually only works inside Avid products. It's sort of a hacky implementation outside the original DNx spec. I guess you're out of luck on that one, so use another format as the cat man suggested.

             

            Mylenium

            • 3. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
              Pierre Devereux Level 2

              Hi Fuzzy,

               

              I remember our chat, and I promise I am not ignoring it....

               

              I am still just trying out a bunch of different things, especially while I still have the time. The reason for the downscale, was that I watched a tutorial on editing 4K in Premier, and since Premier has an automatic "scale to sequence" setting, I thought it would be nice to use for images shot tha dont require actual posts moves. To be honest, I am just messing about with the different types of files and sizes between the apps.

               

              I just couldnt understand why the file transferred into Mocahe as is, seems to crop, while the same comp rendered out as TIFF/TGA is the full 4K frame size in Mocha.

               

              BUT....all that aside, I will restart the project with these suggestions and see what happens.

               

              cheers

               

              Pierre

              • 4. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
                Pierre Devereux Level 2

                Thanks man,

                 

                Ill test out a few more and see whats what. All in all, its been a pretty good day, got some good advice on the Premier forum around EDL and timecodes. Well, another day, another lesson learned!

                 

                 

                 

                Pierre

                • 5. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I'm not sure I follow the AE to Mocha workflow. In AE your comp should be the same size as your footage before you open and track in Mocha. If you do that you should be fine unless you're looking at the sequence in PPro instead of the footage.

                   

                  My usual workflow is to trim footage to eliminate the garbage, do the tracking, stabilization, keying that need to be done with full rez original or production codec transcoded footage, then move back to the editing bench.

                   

                  If you're ingesting footage on a Mac I'd take a look at Red Giant Bullet Proof as a solution for managing your original footage. There is a free public beta going on right now. Here's an article from my friend Stu about it.

                  • 6. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
                    Pierre Devereux Level 2

                    Hi Rick,

                     

                    Always great to get feedback from you. I use the AE to Mocha tracking for the addition of the lip syncgh tool. I use Mochaimportplus so most of the steps are automatic.

                     

                    I did some tests yesterday, I took a 5 second clip from the camera, to RedCineX. I exported with the following settings:

                     

                     

                    This gives me a MOV file output:

                     

                     

                    I import this editorial directly to Premier, allowing for the "Scale to fit" setting (I do this, cause I use this step in the rough cut to get timing and selection from the footage. If I had several shots of different characters, I would do a "One CLick Key" and layer them in the sequence to check that they are interacting correctly with each other, perform a rough cut, and replace the sequence with an AE comp.

                     

                    In AE, I remove the scaling (reset to 100%) and now sit with 4K Editorials to do compositing, mouth's, liquify etc. I select this footage layer and run MocahImportPlus. This is when the weirdness happens as it only shows a small section of the footage. In AE, I make no changes, but render out a TGA sequence and import that to the same comp above the original footage layer. I re-run the plugin with the new layer selected, and it then works great.

                     

                    Very strange - not really an issue, as this is a fine workaround, I just wondered what could possibly cause it.

                     

                    I currently use a PC to do the bulk of the work, including the backups and storing of data, but since we still have two MACS, ill take a look at bullet proof - thanks for the tip.

                     

                    Pierre

                    • 7. Re: Mocha tracking of a 4K image
                      Pierre Devereux Level 2

                      hmm, lost my screenshots there, Ill add them here:

                       

                      RedCineX Quicktime and video export settings:

                      RedCineX Quicktime.JPGDNxHD Settings.JPG

                       

                      MOV File:

                       

                      MOV Settings.JPG

                       

                      Pierre