16 Replies Latest reply on May 30, 2013 8:56 AM by RjL190365

    RAID Question

    yash-lucid Level 1

      Hello community.

       

      I am currently editing off a 3tb 7200rpm drive. How much of a performance boost will I get if I add another exact drive in RAID 1?

       

      I am assuming it will be a significant increase. If so, is it possible to configure the drives without losing data on my exisiting one?

       

      Thanks!

       

      (Windows 7)

        • 1. Re: RAID Question
          joe bloe premiere Level 5

          Here's a lot of good info:

           

          To RAID or not to RAID, that is the question

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/525263

          • 2. Re: RAID Question
            Jim_Simon Level 9

            RAID 1 doesn't offer any increase in performance, only data security.

             

            You'd need to format the drives as a RAID, and hence would lose all data on them.

            • 3. Re: RAID Question
              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Raid 1 is mirrored which means both disks record the same data.

              Raid 0 make two disks into one.

              You cannot make raid 0 with already data on it.

              I have been using raid 0 for years now, never lost data yet.

              But you do need a back system.

              • 4. Re: RAID Question
                Biggles Lamb Level 3

                RAID 0 is also called a spanned RAID, it does offer an increase in performance since it writes alternatively between the discs hence the speed is c2x a single drive.

                 

                You can setup a RAID in Windows 7 very easily, but you need no data to be on both of the discs, go ito the drive manager and change two discs you want to use as a RAID to dynamic, then follow the wizard.

                 

                You are advised to regularly backup all data on the RAID 0 as you will lose all if (a) something happens to one of the drives (b) Windows screws up and forgets it is a RAID (this has happened to me)

                 

                The RAID 1 (mirror) writes data simultaneously to both drives hence you have security of identical data on the drives

                 

                There are other RAID systems available but they require a specialist external enclosure to be fully secure

                 

                Rather than a RAID I suggest that you have a try at setting up the drives so that the data is written/read between at least 3 different drives

                • 5. Re: RAID Question
                  Jeff Bellune Level 5

                  [moved to hardware forum]

                  • 6. Re: RAID Question
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    RAID 0 is also called a spanned RAID, it does offer an increase in performance since it writes alternatively between the discs hence the speed is c2x a single drive.

                     

                    Sorry, a spanned volume is something different than a striped array. A spanned volume does not give any performance boost, it only extends the volume to cover two or more disks, but first uses the first disk and when it is full uses the second disk. It is similar to a camera with two memory cards. When the first is full, it continues recording on the second card.

                     

                    A striped array does increase the performance by using the member disks simultaneously.

                    You can setup a RAID in Windows 7 very easily, but you need no data to be on both of the discs, go ito the drive manager and change two discs you want to use as a RAID to dynamic, then follow the wizard.

                     

                    That solution carries the most overhead, clearly more than BIOS based raids.

                     

                    There are other RAID systems available but they require a specialist external enclosure to be fully secure

                     

                    That is nonsense. I have a couple of systems with only internal raid arrays, varying from 2x raid0 via 6 x raid5, 7 x raid6 and 12 x raid30 up to 24 x raid30 all internally.

                    • 7. Re: RAID Question
                      yash-lucid Level 1

                      Thanks everyone. So I see that I would need to invest a little more than one additional drive.

                       

                      I already have:

                       

                      500GB @5400rpm for OS/Apps/Page File

                      500GB @5400rpm for Media Cache

                      3TB @7200rpm for Footage

                      3TB @7200rpm for Video/Audio Previews

                       

                      What can I do with around $500? Or more if I need to? SSDs or normal drives in raid?

                      • 8. Re: RAID Question
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        For that budget you can get 3 Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 2 TB disks (the 2 platter version).

                         

                        I would set these up as:

                         

                        C: 2 TB Seagate on a SATA 6 G port for OS, programs & pagefile

                        D: 2 TB Seagate on a SATA 6 G port for Media cache & previews

                        E: 2 TB Seagate on a SATA 3 G port for Projects

                        F: 3 TB existing drive on a Marvell 6 G port for Media

                        G: 3 TB existing drive on a Marvell 6 G port for exports, backups and miscellaneous.

                         

                        and use the existing 500 GB 5400 RPM disks for a second copy of your projects (one) and media (the other one) using eSATA  or USB3 connections and external housings.

                         

                        I don't think you need a striped raid due to the lack of redundancy and it's inherent risk of complete data loss. An alternative might be to go for a Samsung 840 Pro 128 GB SSD instead of the 2 TB Seagate designated as C: above.

                        • 9. Re: RAID Question
                          Biggles Lamb Level 3

                          Yash

                           

                          Have a look at

                           

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID#RAID_0

                           

                          and you will see that there is a plethory of RAID systems available, but most will blow your budget.

                           

                          A RAID 0 system that is set up to write ALTERNATIVELY to each drive in turn will give an increase in performance and an increase in overall disc capacity, this system is used for performance increase only and has no effective data error checking capabilities

                           

                          RAID systems were devised in the first place, to offer data security and an increase in read/write performance to the old IDE and SCSI drives, my first RAID array was in the late 90's and used SCSI drives.

                           

                          Having a RAID internally within the PC is an extra risk.  They are a risk because if you have a BIOS or Windows issue you can loose the RAID, it has happened to me when the MOBO failed, all my data was trashed as the RAID system could not be reconfigured as the installation routine would not recognise the old system

                           

                          There are two types of internal RAID, one via an add on card and another via configuring the internal hard drives to be used as a RAID either via Windows or via BIOS.

                           

                          I'd guess that you may be short of SATA connections hence if you choose to go internal then you may need an additional card to take the drives, also with so many drives internally you may have a heat issue and also the power supply will need to be checked. 

                           

                          Also a Windows set up RAID is very easy to configure, and yes Harm is correct about resources but setting up a RAID in BIOS does require more knowledge and hence why I suggested the Windows route.

                           

                          On my RAID 0 I have all the source/media/cache/project files stored with just the pagefile and export going to other drives, with CS5.5 I can achieve realtime playback (with no rendering) of 5 video streams, each with a video effect.  I also backup the whole of the RAID to a specific backup drive.

                          • 10. Re: RAID Question
                            yash-lucid Level 1

                            Thanks Biggles. It appears that if I want to get the most efficient and bang for buck system, I have a lot more research to do than I initially anticipated. I'll report back once I've schooled myself a little more. In the meantime, all the comments have helped big time. Even little things like factoring in extra cards to accomodate more drives.

                             

                            Thanks!

                            • 11. Re: RAID Question
                              yash-lucid Level 1

                              And thanks to Harm and everyone else too

                              • 12. Re: RAID Question
                                Biggles Lamb Level 3

                                Yash

                                 

                                Glad too help, it is a minefield if you are not used to PC systems and manipulating hard drives.

                                 

                                You actually seem to have a very good system as is.

                                 

                                An external system is far from rubbish as Harm says, as it has its own inbuilt controller, and in the event of a drive failure the failed drive can be "hot swapped" as long as the system is configured with the correct error checking and redundancy.  The external route does require more cash and more robust backup systems

                                 

                                Whatever direction you take do remember to backup the RAID 0 very frequently if you choose that route.

                                 

                                Also do checkout the info on a company called DROBO, they do things slightly differently but have good videos for learning about data drive management

                                • 13. Re: RAID Question
                                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                                  I have never said anything like:

                                   

                                  An external system is far from rubbish as Harm says

                                   

                                  I said that you don't need an external system. There are many internal solutions available that give the same or better performance than external systems and have the same hot-swappable bays and dedicated controller. External systems, well some of them, can be quite good if they use a good controller, employ high speed SFF connections and have hot-swappable fans and PSU's, but these are very expensive, because they use SAS 3.0 architecture and are 19" rack mountable. All external systems that use other connections than SFF or fibre, like eSATA, USB3, FW800 or even slower  are indeed rubbish in terms of performance. Drobo is only suitable for backups, because they are soo slooww.

                                  • 14. Re: RAID Question
                                    RjL190365 Level 4

                                    Biggles Lamb wrote:

                                     

                                    An external system is far from rubbish as Harm says, as it has its own inbuilt controller, and in the event of a drive failure the failed drive can be "hot swapped" as long as the system is configured with the correct error checking and redundancy.  The external route does require more cash and more robust backup systems

                                     

                                    As Harm responded, it's the type of external solution that matters, not the external solution itself. The only ones that aren't "rubbish" all cost well into the tens of thousands of dollars and have their own controller interface cards and require a lot of disks to make it work. The cheaper ones that rely on a single external connection, such as eSATA or USB 3.0, are often no faster than a single, non-RAID internal disk. (These cheaper solutions may have their own controllers, but they're still being fed the severely limited bandwidth of the single eSATA or USB 3.0 channel; thus, they cannot be faster - and can often be far slower - than the limited single channel itself.) In this latter case, the severely limited bandwidth of the single external eSATA or USB 3.0 connection really makes itself known. (In fact, for USB 3.0 external solutions, the additional latency caused by both the enclosure's and the motherboard's onboard USB 3.0 controller makes their practical performance capability even slower than most single, non-RAID internal SATA hard disks.)

                                    • 15. Re: RAID Question
                                      Biggles Lamb Level 3

                                      Harm

                                       

                                      We are singing the same Hymn but are on different pages.

                                       

                                      No, you do not need an external system, but Yash needs to be aware of the possible problems with internal RAID systems

                                       

                                      As far as DROBO are concerned, there is nothing in my post about using them but they do.............have good videos for learning about data drive management....................which was the whole purpose of mentioning them

                                       

                                      If Yash wants a RAID then the best option in terms of cost and read/write performance is an internal RAID 0 on which he runs a good file sync or backup programme to back up all the data on the RAID at a frequency determined by the value of the data on the RAID

                                      • 16. Re: RAID Question
                                        RjL190365 Level 4

                                        Here is the problem with RAID 0 (which I shall refer to as AID 0):

                                         

                                        It offers absolutely no redundancy whatsoever. Worse, if even one disk were to fail, you'd lose everything on all of the disks in that AID 0 array! This is because striping manipulates the data chunks to the point that it would be practically impossible to recover from the disks in the AID 0 that are still "good" (or put it this way, parts of the data file are spread out over each and every single disk in the array). As a result, I'd only recommend AID 0 if you are willing to back up to a separate, non-AID 0 disk immediately following work or saves.

                                         

                                        And there is no free lunch. In fact, I'd recommend against putting more than two disks in any single AID 0 array regardless of the actual performance potential of the single disk within that array. This is because each additional disk in the same AID 0 array increases the risk of complete data loss by that many disks.