7 Replies Latest reply on May 30, 2013 7:41 AM by RjL190365

    AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?

    DrewHoov

      I'm aware that AMD GPUs are not on the officially supported list for CS6 (unless you're editing video on select MacBook Pros). My question is: has anyone gotten an AMD GPU to work via the manual unlock method (described by studio1productions.com)?

       

      Otherwise helpful advice based on the following circumstances would be appreciated also:

       

      I need to upgrade from a GTX 560 Ti with factory OC and 1GB DDR5. I would prefer that my upgrade be both an upgrade for gaming and PP performance (I can't justify a gaming upgrade alone). However, the Kepler architecture is not so hot for PP, so I understand that a GTX670 would not be the performance jump I need. A GTX580 may work, but those are tough to find right now, and I would prefer not to buy old tech.

       

      Enter the AMD 7970, which smokes the Kepler architecture in terms of compute. My guess is that it would perform great in all OpenCL driven effects if it were manually unlocked. No, I'm not going to subscribe to CC (for which the 7970 is on the approved card list) for $240 just so I can get the GPU.

       

      I'm looking to spend $400-$500, and I have a 750 watt PSU.

        • 1. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          My question is: has anyone gotten an AMD GPU to work via the manual unlock method (described by studio1productions.com)?

           

          NO. It will not work.

           

          If you do not have an overclocked hexa core i7-39xx CPU with 64 GB memory and a disk setup with a sustained transfer rate of 400+ MB/s on the project and media disks, it is unwise to move away from the GTX 560 Ti. Certainly not to AMD, since all AMD's are a factor 12-15 slower than the nVidia cards. The AMD 7970 is left in the dust by the GTX 560 Ti.

           

          However, the Kepler architecture is not so hot for PP, so I understand that a GTX670 would not be the performance jump I need.

           

          Where do you base that on? It is utter nonsense. See Video Card Performance and scroll down till you see the comparison. But coming from a GTX 560 Ti and going to a GTX 670 will give a marginal performance gain, if the rest of your system is equally capable as outlined above. Then it may be worth - in certain circumstances, like a very thick wallet, or the boss picks up the bill, etc. - the investment. If you only have a quad core CPU, 32 GB or less of memory and no disk setup that delivers at least 400+ MB/s sustained transfer rate on the project, media and media cache disks, then it is a waste of money.

          • 2. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
            DrewHoov Level 1

            That was perhaps the longest way of saying "Your GPU ain't the bottleneck" that I've ever heard!

             

            So if I am to spend money to increase my system's performance, what is my bottleneck? I have an i5-2500k at 4.5ghz, an SSD for OS, 16GB RAM, and assorted 7200RPM HDDs.

             

            I've read your post on RAID and am thinking of putting a RAID5 config in my tower, with the built in controller on my AsRock Extreme3 Gen3.

            disk setup that delivers at least 400+ MB/s sustained transfer rate on the project, media and media cache disks, then it is a waste of money.

            ^ Does that mean a RAID for project, media, AND media cache? Would it be beneficial to have a RAID for one and then a single separate disk for others? Perhaps you can direct me to a resource that explains this in detail.

             

            Also, on your original post, the degree performance difference between RAID3 and RAID5 was unclear to me, though it was clear that you preferred RAID3.

            • 3. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Drew,

               

              Thanks for posting the rest of your specs. That is very helpful is figuring out where potential bottlenecks may be and how to look at the feasibility of your ideas. You did not mention them in your original post, so I figured I need to cover all angles, just in case.

               

              Just to give you a short answer about what is lacking in your system:

               

              • CPU
              • Memory
              • Possibly disks

               

              The CPU, despite being overclocked, lacks logical cores. Only 4-core and no HT.

              Memory is limited to 16 GB, which may be enough in your case, but you did not tell what source material you use.

              You did not tell which SSD (some are no faster than HDD) on what connection.

              You did not specify the 'assorted' disks, how they are used and what connection is used for them.

               

              See the 'Generic Guide to Disk Setup', found in the FAQ section or on the right under popular discussions.

               

              Performance differences between raid3 and raid5 are small for everday editing, with the nod to raid3, but in the case of a disk failure raid3 can be rebuild faster than raid5. However on your mobo, a raid controller is not feasible, due to the lacking PCIe lanes and the inherent 10-15% drop in performance of your very good 560 Ti. On your mobo the only solution you have is a raid0 with all the data loss risks this entails.

              • 4. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
                DrewHoov Level 1

                Thanks for the quick response!

                 

                Memory: I'm working with H.264 1920x1080 footage right now. In 2 years, I plan like to move to RAW 3840x2160 footage, and that may require a totally different computer build.

                SSD: 830 series Samsung 120GB on SATAIII

                Disks: 1x750GB@7200RPM, 2x2TB@7200RPM

                 

                So, you are saying the onboard RAID controller will not work for RAID5, *and* I cannot use a RAID controller because putting it in a second PCIe lane would draw bandwidth from my 560 Ti?

                 

                Data loss risks are unacceptable to me and it is driving me crazy that I don't have a better redundancy solution in place now. I would prefer not to simply mirror my HDDs. Am I correct in assuming my only feasible redundancy option is an external RAID enclosure connected via USB3.0?

                 

                I assume upgrading to a 6 core HT CPU would cost ~$600 for CPU and ~$300 for mobo.

                • 5. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Let's start with the good news, your SSD and your video card are both very good. Having 4 separate physical disks is very good as well.

                   

                  But your options with the current components are limited. The SSD is a given for OS, programs and pagefile. That leaves you with one 750 G disk and 2 x 2 T disks. There is no sense considering a raid setup with these disks, there are just too few for a sensible solution. In your current system I would suggest using the 750 G disk for media cache and previews, one 2T disk for projects and exports and one 2T disk for media. But that still leaves you without a backup solution. An extra disk for backups is very much advised, whether that is an internal SATA disk or an external eSATA (preferably) or a USB3 disk does not really matter.

                   

                  When you intend to move up to RAW 4K material, then you are correct, a hexa core on a 2011 platform gives you all the possibilities you may want for the future. The problem with the 1155 platform is that there are only 16 PCIe lanes available, all of them used by the video card. If you add a dedicated raid controller, the video card will be throttled down to PCIe-8x, causing the 10-15% performance loss. The 2011 platform has 40 PCIe lanes available, so you could use two video cards at full PCIe-16x throttle plus a dedicated PCIe-8x raid controller.

                   

                  However, it is not just the CPU and mobo, you also have to look at memory and maybe at the PSU. The X79 platform is rather finicky about memory with its quad channel architecture, so not all memory from a 1155 can be easily ported to a 2011 platform.

                   

                  While not relevant to you yet, this Intro Part 1 and all the following pages may give you an inkling of what you may need in the future or at least may need to consider.

                  • 6. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    No you cannot add the ATI card to the Hardware MPE list with CS6. The 600 Series cards are as good as the 500 series with support for 4 monitors and lower heat. I still question whether the Open CL coming in the new version will perform as well as CUDA. In other applications, it has not.


                    Eric

                    ADK

                    • 7. Re: AMD GPU in CS6 MPE?
                      RjL190365 Level 4

                      DrewHoov wrote:

                       

                      Thanks for the quick response!

                       

                      Memory: I'm working with H.264 1920x1080 footage right now. In 2 years, I plan like to move to RAW 3840x2160 footage, and that may require a totally different computer build.

                      SSD: 830 series Samsung 120GB on SATAIII

                      Disks: 1x750GB@7200RPM, 2x2TB@7200RPM

                       

                      So, you are saying the onboard RAID controller will not work for RAID5, *and* I cannot use a RAID controller because putting it in a second PCIe lane would draw bandwidth from my 560 Ti?

                       

                      Data loss risks are unacceptable to me and it is driving me crazy that I don't have a better redundancy solution in place now. I would prefer not to simply mirror my HDDs. Am I correct in assuming my only feasible redundancy option is an external RAID enclosure connected via USB3.0?

                       

                      I assume upgrading to a 6 core HT CPU would cost ~$600 for CPU and ~$300 for mobo.

                      Unfortunately, the onboard RAID 5 is almost entirely software controlled. What's worse, there are excessive latencies involved in all software RAIDs. As a result, the real-world performance with a RAID 5 on an onboard SATA coltroller may very well be slower than even a single, non-RAID disk.

                       

                      And two identical disks plus the OS disk and another disk of a different capacity aren't enough for anything above a two-disk AID 0. In fact, three or more identical disks are required for RAID 5 - but then, you'd run into the limits of the chipset's SATA controller with as few as four disks. (It's not that the controller doesn't perform; it's that it can only accommodate six total devices including the OS and optical disks - and worse, the onboard SATA controller must also control non-RAID boot and optical devices in addition to the RAID 5, which unnecessarily eats up CPU cycles and creates additional latencies.) As such, for all practical purposes RAID 5 on an onboard controller is unfeasible.

                       

                      And yes, Harm explained perfectly well the limitations of most LGA 1155 motherboards. There are a few LGA 1155 boards that do maintain x16 bandwidth to the primary PCI-e x16 slot with a second PCI-e x16 physical length card installed - but then, that second "x16" slot is really only an x4 slot, run in PCI-e 2.0 mode from the chipset's PCH rather than the CPU. This lower bandwidth for that second slot will seriously impact disk I/O performance, especially since RAID controllers expect eight PCI-e lanes rather than just four. As a result, with an LGA 1155 platform you'd get slower CUDA MPE performance and/or slower disk I/O performance. There is absolutely no way at all whatsoever around this without investing $1,000 or more on a new (LGA 2011) motherboard, CPU and RAM.

                       

                      And yes, the i5-2500K is a handicap when it comes to video editing: Based on tests with the PPBM6 H.264 test, I estimate that the i5-2500K at even 4.5 GHz to be slower than an i7-2600K at even stock (3.4GHz) speed. (You may have seen gaming results from an i5 and an equally clocked i7. The only reason why the i5 performed as well as it did is because games do not fully utilize more than three or four CPU threads - and many games will not even utilize hyperthreading at all - while video editing programs can make full or nearly full use of all available CPU threads on the PC.)

                       

                      All of the above leads to my agreement with Harm: Don't waste your money on a higher-end GPU. The performance improvement will be far less than the money that you spend on the more powerful card, especially with lesser CPUs. In fact, if you were to buy a new GPU for that i5 system, I would not advise going with anything above a GTX 650 Ti Boost even if you were to upgrade that system's total RAM to 32GB.

                       

                      And no, you cannot enable GPU acceleration at all with any AMD GPU in the Windows versions of Premiere Pro CS6. OpenCL support is permanently disabled by the software developer in this edition. (OpenCL support in the OSX version of CS6 is enabled only because of the lack of any newer-model Macs that shipped with CUDA-capable GPUs that were in existence at the time of the software's release.) As a result, with an AMD GPU the Windows version of CS6 is permanently locked into the software-only MPE mode, which means that renders will take equally as long as if that PC doesn't have a discrete GPU at all (this means that the PC relies entirely on integrated or onboard graphics).