18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 4, 2013 10:01 AM by alexdejesus

    Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard

    alexdejesus Level 1

      I am returning my ATX motherboard for a replacement. Warrantee calls for a swap, but this board is no longer available (ASUS P8P67 Pro B3). The store (Fry's) says they will allow any LGA1155 in stock as long as I pay the difference in cost. I saw the Rampage motherboard, but pretty steep in price. Wondering if it's worth it or if there are any that I should avoid.

       

      I have maxed out my internal storage slots, so the onboard SATA controller is important.

       

      Also, will I need to un-register CS6 before replacing the motherboard?

        • 1. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

          I believe the Rampage series is X79 only currently which is socket 2011. This Asus board would be the one I would recommend at this point with the Thunderbolt option.

           

          https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8Z77V_PROTHUNDERBOLT/

           

          Eric

          ADK

          • 2. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
            alexdejesus Level 1

            I saw that one! Yeah, Rampage is x79. I meant Maximus - just saw the red box. Thunderbolt would be nice, thanks

            • 3. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
              alexdejesus Level 1

              http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131853

              I would love to have T-bolt, but this motherboard seems to have a lot of negative reviews. I don't want to install it only to have to RMA it. Does anyone in this forum have experience with this motherboard?

              • 4. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                Don't get over exited about Thunderbolt. If you look at bandwidth of the various connections, Thunderbolt is better than eSATA and USB3, but far off from SFF.

                 

                Connection

                Bandwidth

                per connection

                Thunderbolt10 Gbps
                SATA 6G6 Gbps
                eSATA 6G6 Gbps
                USB35 Gbps
                SAS 3.0 SFF

                48 Gbps

                PCIe-2.0 (16x)32 Gbps
                PCIe-3.0 (16x)64 Gbps

                 

                If you consider 6 SFF connections on a single (2011) system versus a single Thunderbolt connection, you see the difference.

                • 5. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                  alexdejesus Level 1

                  Thanks for the chart. I need to replace my 2-year old p67 motherboard and I think a Z77 is as far as I can go, keeping the rest of my computer the same. Which 1155 motherboard has SFF connections? And how can I incorporate them into my system?

                   

                  I am about due for a storage drive upgrade

                  • 6. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    The only way to get practical access to SFF connectors is by using a PCIe-3.0 raid controller, which from that same practical point of view excludes 1150 Haswell or 1155 SB/Ivy platforms, due to the lacking PCIe lanes.

                     

                    BTW, did you note I said 1150 platform? Haswell has a new LGA architecture with only 1150 pins and new 8 series chipset, which still is limited to PCIe-16x for the video, but improves a bit on the number of PCIe lanes, in that it adds a PCIe-2.0 8x connection. It is an improvement, but still leaves it far behind the 2011 platform.

                    • 7. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                      RjL190365 Level 4

                      As Harm stated, the entire LGA 1155 platform simply does not have enough PCI-e 3.0 lanes to allow the use of a discrete RAID card without also degrading GPU (and thus MPE) performance. You see, most LGA 1155 motherboards will drop the primary PCI-e x16 slot to only x8 operation if a second PCI-e x16 physical-length card in installed into the secondary x16-length slot. And as I stated in another thread, all 16 of the available PCI-e lanes on the LGA 1155 platform are normally used by the single GPU (graphics card). Thus, if a secondary device has to steal PCI-e lanes, on all LGA 1155 motherboards those lanes have to come from the 16 that are already being used by the GPU or the fewer than eight available PCI-e 2.0 lanes (after accounting for the onboard devices) that are supplemented by the chipset's PCH. Both of those scenarios will degrade performance in Premiere Pro: Either the MPE performance or the disk I/O performance will suffer. And there is absolutely no way at all around this limitation besides having to spend well over $1,000 for an upgraded CPU, motherboard and RAM combined in addition to the cost of the required card(s).

                       

                      And as Harm implied, the maximum practical (sustainable) throughput of Thunderbolt is not sufficiently higher than (e)SATA 6.0 Gbps to justify the relatively astronomical additional cost of the Thunderbolt controller and Thunderbolt device(s).

                      • 8. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                        alexdejesus Level 1

                        So, the thunderbolt capability on an 1155 board was not practical because it steals resources that are needed for graphics. But I can only swap out my existing board for another 1155, and of the current available boards want to avoid stepping down from what I have

                        • 9. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                          I have yet to see any issues with this board. I do know you have to set up the Thunderbolt controller settings manually in the bios to get the Thunderbolt controller to work right with many TB devices. You have to take user reviews with a grain of salt. Many have no idea how to setup the bios correctly

                           

                          Eric

                          ADK

                          • 10. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                            alexdejesus Level 1

                            If what Harm and RjL is correct, then I will get no benefit from the Thunderbolt capability for editing purposes - except maybe for capturing and ingesting media. What I don't understand is, is the Thunderbolt controller embedded on the motherboard itself, and if so, how can it still be classified as 1155 platform. I thought all the platforms were standardized as far as I/O ports. Does it have a dedicated pci-3 lane that does not infringe on the 16x graphics card lane? 

                            • 11. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                              RjL190365 Level 4

                              Alex,

                               

                              I am clarifying this: In most Z77 motherboards with onboard Thunderbolt, the Thunderbolt controller is connected to the chipset's PCH PCI-e hub. Thus, four PCI-e 2.0 lanes are used for the Thunderbolt controller. In motherboards with this setup, you may lose the use of a USB 3.0 external header, the extra pair of SATA 6.0 Gbps ports or one or two PCI-e x1 slots whenever Thunderbolt is enabled.

                               

                              And Harm is correct that Thunderbolt is still not fast enough to handle such very large RAID arrays needed for heavy-duty 4K video work. By default, the single Thunderbolt port operates at 2x speed (20 Gbps maximum, or about 2 GB/s). But large RAID arrays can easily oversaturate that limited bandwidth. Moreover, current Thunderbolt external drives offer a very poor value compared to USB 3.0 external drives or internal SATA drives: Sequentially, Thunderbolt hard drives are no faster than their SATA or USB 3.0 counterparts, but cost three to four times more than other drives of the same capacity.

                              • 12. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                alexdejesus Level 1

                                The motherboard specs listing has the following footnotes for the Thunderbolt port:

                                3 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 *3
                                2 x PCIe x1 *4

                                ASMedia® PCIe SATA controller : *6

                                1 x Thunderbolt port(s) *9

                                 

                                "*3: PCIe 3.0 speed is supported by Intel® 3rd generation Core™ processors. Install the Ivy Bridge CPU before installing a device on the PCIeX16_3 slot.

                                *4: The PCIe x1_2 slot shares bandwidth with SATA6G_E12. SATA6G_E12 is enabled by default for system resource optimization.

                                *6: These SATA ports are for data hard drivers only. ATAPI devices are not supported.

                                *9: Thunderbolt port shares bandwidth with SATA6G_E12, USB3_E12 and PCIeX1_2. The Thunderbolt port default runs at X2(Auto) mode, SATA6G_E12 and USB3_E12 are enabled for system resource optimization. Go to Advanced> Onboard Devices Configuration> Thunderbolt bandwidth in BIOS to configure the bandwidth to [X4] for full speed support."

                                 

                                I'm not sure what all this means, but it looks like my current i7-2600k processor will not support #3 since it is generation 2. Since I don't plan on replacing the processor, it makes no sense to have this motherboard. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

                                 

                                I know, Harm. I am planning on a 2011 build at some point.

                                • 13. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                  RjL190365 Level 4

                                  Alex,

                                   

                                  What that means is that one of the PCI-e x1 slots is disabled when the Thunderbolt controller is enabled. And in the default x2 (10 Gbps) mode, it will still allow you to use the extra SATA 6.0 Gbps ports and the USB 3.0 header controlled by the ASMedia USB 3.0 chip. The ASMedia USB 3.0 header and the ASMedia SATA 6.0 Gbps ports are disabled when the Thunderbolt controller is set to its maximum speed (x4, or 20 Gbps) mode.

                                   

                                  Now, if you install a PCI-e RAID card that's fast enough to justify spending the price premium. there is no really good place to put such a card on an LGA 1155 or LGA 1150 platform: In the case of that Asus board, all three of the PCI-e x16 slots share the exact same 16 PCI-e lanes on the CPU. (The sharing of three slots for the same set of 16 on-CPU PCI-e lanes means that two slots will each receive only 8 lanes worth of bandwidth, or if all three slots are used, the primary one will only receive 8 lanes while the other two will each receive only four lanes.)

                                  • 14. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                    alexdejesus Level 1

                                    RjL Thanks again for that large chunk of info.

                                    • 15. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                      The limited expandability is really the main reason for Thunderbolt. It was designed for Mobile and AIO units that do not have many or any bus expansion options. In those situations Thunderbolt is an excellent interface to offer further options that the system would normally not have. However a X79 workstation or a Dual Xeon has the expansion for far better interfaces so Thunderbolt is really only a cheaper option for some interfaces such as raid storage units. The performance will still be better on the actual SAS storage devices for example. With these principles in mind, Thunderbolt does have it's place just like Lightpeak will when that is implemented.


                                      Eric

                                      ADK

                                      • 16. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                        alexdejesus Level 1

                                        So, the Thunderbolt issue aside, is there a motherboard available that would be a step up from my current board in terms of performance and I/O and yet compatible with my i7-2600k processor? And if so, which boards are showing the best performances according to the benchmarks? What improvements have been made from the P67 and Z77 models?

                                        • 17. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Motherboards with the same chipset/socket are all about equal. They do not differ sufficiently to say they are a step up. They do differ in features that are added to the motherboard, but performance wise they do not differ noticeably.

                                           

                                          To make a step up, you need to get a different chipset/socket, different CPU and possibly different memory. In this case from a 1155 platform to a 2011 platform, that would be a step up.

                                          • 18. Re: Replacement for LGA 1155 Motherboard
                                            alexdejesus Level 1

                                            Looks like I'll be going with the thunderbolt board.