-
1. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Harm Millaard May 30, 2013 11:32 AM (in response to Red Planet Pictures)Adobe would be crazy to do that, it costs revenue and does not give them anything in return with the current conditions. If anything, they could increase prices for existing clients to improve revenues. Existing CC customers have their hands tied, they can't choose another solution like a perpetual license.
Adobe has shown a complete disrespect for existing customers and there is nothing you can do about it, apart from choosing another supplier of software. Well, you could opt to continue paying randomly increased rent payments. I'm not saying this will be effected this year, but it is not unthinkable that current rent prices of $ 50 per month will be doubled next year to $ 100 per month and then again in 2015 to $ 200 per month. What is stopping Adobe from doing exactly that? Nothing, they only need to inform you of the price increase beforehand. Well, that is pretty easy with a mass mailing or updating the website. What can you do against that? Only end your subscription and stop the payments, but where do you go next? And what about all your copywrighted material you can no longer access, even though you own it? What about stopping your subscription in the 2-nd month of your yearly subscription, because $ 200 per month is more than you bargained for? Your license is revoked immediately, but you still have to pay 50% of the remaining months, so another $ 1000 down the drain.
I don't understand people who are willingly walking into captivity by Adobe.
-
2. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Red Planet Pictures May 30, 2013 12:09 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)Situations like you described are exactly why the pirating industry exists in the first place. I've seen people with laptops running CS6 fully pirated without problems. Disappointing to see now that it's so affordable but that's the world we live in, if Adobe were to shoot themselves in the foot like that I imagine it would only encourage more of the same.
Why could you no longer access your copywrited material if you got locked out of the CC for canceling your service? For one, you have 90 days to access anything you have stored on the cloud, which in all likelihood you already have saved on hard storage anyway. For two, if you know you're going to be switching from Adobe to FCP or Avid, save projects you need as XMLs or EDLs. And for three, worst case scenario, create a trial account under a new email and use it for free for another month until you've got what you need.
$100 or $200 per month? Seriously? So you think Adobe will go from charging $600/year, about the price of two standalone products before, to $1200-2400? They will lose so much of their customer base to competition or pirating that I'm personally not at all concerned. I'm sure the current CC model is proving wildly successful for them or they wouldn't be switching to it permanently. Have you ever actually met and talked to people at Adobe?
I've been to a few conferences and even got invited to an After Effects panel with some of the developers at my old school, they've always seemed genuinely interested in what their customers have to say and want to get out of their products. You seem to think they're more like Apple who only cares about the money.
If down the road you get proven to be right all along, feel free to jump on here and scream "I told you so" at the top of your lungs, but until then you just seem to be making baseless accusations and assumptions.
-
3. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Harm Millaard May 30, 2013 1:40 PM (in response to Red Planet Pictures)These are not accusations or assumptions, they are warnings that under the current conditions a customer has no right at all and you are completely, 100% dependent on the single-sided actions that Adobe can take at their own discretion. Just read the legalese. Everything is spelled out for you.
Have you ever tried accessing a .PRPOJ file when you no longer can access PR? It does not matter if you have stored the file on the cloud or locally. You simply can't. Have you ever tried opening a .XML or .EDL file with Avid (FCP is no option, since it does not work on a normal computer) and not had problems with plug-ins that are included in the XML or EDL? It simply does not work.
Yeah, I have met and talked to people at Adobe, probably more than you ever did.
MC is $ 2599, and upgrades are planned about once a year, so why not increase rentals to $ 2400?
PR is priced at $ 799, AE at $ 999. Those two applications cost $ 1798, not the $ 600 you mention.
-
4. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Red Planet Pictures May 30, 2013 2:17 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)Yes they do have the power to do that, but while you seem to have already made up your mind that they will, I counter that they won't.
Again, if you have a project file that you don't want to lose work on with compatibility issues from XML/EDL files, you can just create a trial account for CS6. You can also use a text editor to change the product version of a project file and open it in a lower version. I've done this with a CS6 file to edit it on someone's laptop who only had CS5 installed, with zero problems. Obvioulsly you'll lose anything added with the product update like Warp Stabilizer but much easier than importing an XML or EDL.
If you owned a previous CS version of a product, upgrading to the new version was between $300-400. so $600 is about on par with upgrading two pieces of software previously. I'll gladly pay $600 to access AE, PR and PS which I use daily, not to mention Audition, Story, Illustrator, and with Prelude and Speedgrade getting massive updates next month it looks like I'll finally be using them regularly too, plus the 20GB of free online storage is far better than using Dropbox or YouSendIt for swapping files between home/work/clients. That's a hell of a deal if you ask me. Maybe you're someone who only ever uses two or three products, in which case I can understand the issue more, but I have a feeling that's the not the case with you.
I suppose you have legitimate concern in that they COULD do as you say, but I really, truly believe that they won't. If they do, well, I'll deal with that when the day comes. But I know that at least for the next year, I'll be using CC at the same $50/mo that I originally signed up for, most likely with better, faster updates, and I couldn't be happier.
Just wish they would offer some thanks to customers like me who never doubted them in the first place
-
5. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Harm Millaard May 30, 2013 3:13 PM (in response to Red Planet Pictures)I'm a very old customer, using Premiere since 5.5, never missed an update, upgrade or new Version. In the meantime I upgraded from PR to Production Premium (CS2) to Master Collection (CS4) and onwards. I have always chosen to buy it ASAP, not waiting or skipping a version. That qualifies me as a trusted customer, doesn't it?
To help you out, upgrading from CS5.5 to CS6 for the Master Collection is $ 525 in the US, but over here it is $ 900, due to the cost of doing business over here by Adobe's answer. The CC subscription is only $ 50 in the US, but over here it is $ 81 per month. These absurd price differences from the same servers with electronic delivery for the same software and language do not install confidence in Adobe. Are they trustworthy? IMO they are not. Isn't the Cloud intended to be a worldwide approach? Obviously it is not, it is a regional endeavour.
I have my own house, no mortgage, I own a car, I do not rent or lease it, why would I willingly increase my monthly costs by renting from Adobe and as soon as I stop paying rent, I get thrown out, evicted? That makes no sense.
FYI I do use AE, AME, AU, DW, EN, IL, PR, PS, SG quite regularly. If I could buy CS7 (not CC7) I would do that in an eye-blink. When CS8 comes out, I would buy that too. But rentals with all the uncertainty surrounding it, no way.
-
6. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Bitey May 30, 2013 3:12 PM (in response to Red Planet Pictures)If they have the power to do it, they will probably do it. Don't remember the anti-counterfeiting black-box software they were asked to put in Photoshop? Yeah, they admitted at the time they didn't really know what the code did. Remember license-checks and product activation? Yeah, because they could.
I suppose you have legitimate concern in that they COULD do as you say, but I really, truly believe that they won't.
It is a legitimate concern. Belief is great, but this is business. Businesses can do things for money that your beliefs might not square with--like converting to rental-only without any real conversation about it moving everyone there permanently.
If they do, well, I'll deal with that when the day comes.By then you'll have a nice nest of CC files that you can't open without your subscription. You'll be really screwed. So have fun with that.
Just wish they would offer some thanks to customers like me who never doubted them in the first place.
Yeah, I know how you feel after buying individual boxes, upgrades, collections and suites since 1994--and getting my clients to do the same. But then, the cute-and-fuzzy-bunnies of new subscribers seem a lot more interesting to them now than a reliable old ******* like myself.
Glad you're happy, and sorry if the snark seems directed at you--it's not. Just feeling a little bullied and slapped around by Adobe.
-
7. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Red Planet Pictures May 30, 2013 3:27 PM (in response to Bitey)Harm: wow that is significantly more expensive, I guess that changes things quite a bit. I'm in Canada so we get the US pricing give of take the exchange rate. Where are you?
Bitey: no offense taken. I'm in a position where right now the CC is the most cost-efficient solution I've ever had so I really can't relate with the problems it seems a lot of other users are having. I guess it really does come down to trust and just having to hope that Adobe doesn't screw us all in the end.
There are precedents though of companies with incredible power in their industries shooting themselves in the foot and having to cave to consumer demands. Look at EA, unquestionably the world's largest video game publisher. Just recently they have removed micro transactions and paid subscription services because player demand to do so was even too overwhelming for them to sustain. Simcity launched with disastrous results due to their forced always-online model. They are a company that flew too close to the sun and is finally paying for it, Adobe will hopefully learn from situations like this and not follow in their footsteps.
And even if they did, like I said the fact is there is a massive, industry damaging piracy community for a reason. I'm not saying I support it, or suggesting anyone should, but no doubt if Adobe pulls a massive sucker punch on their userbase, they are going to feel it financially when they lose hundreds if not thousands of users to illegal software.
You're right though, it seems like they are more interested in rewarding new customers than long time supporters. Very unfortunate.
-
8. Re: Rewards for existing members?
Harm Millaard May 31, 2013 7:35 AM (in response to Red Planet Pictures)I'm in the Netherlands, but this pricing applies to all Europeans, as shown below:
The best approach is to become a student in AUS or NZ. They appear to be heavily subsidized by Adobe.
This raises the question, when you are a student at a certified institution and can apply for a student rate, what happens in the following circumstances:
- You subscribe on July 1st for $ 15 per month for one year as a AUS student.
- You graduate on September 1st of this year.
- Does your rent go up to $ 50 per September 1st, or does it remain $ 15 until July 1st next year?
- You have graduated and have not yet found a job and find it too expensive, so you end your subscription per September 1st.
- Do you have to pay 50% of the remaining 9 months at what rate? 50% x 9 x $ 15 = $ 67.50 or 50% x 9 x $ 50 = $ 225.00?
- If you fail your graduation and continue your studies for one year, do you still get the $ 30 continuation rent after 12 months, or do you have to pay $ 30 per month till September 1st next year and then pay $ 50 per month?
Everything about the Cloud leaves one with so many questions that are not covered in the legalese descriptions you find on the Adobe site, that you wonder what their intentions are and how you may end up being the victim?
Microsoft and Adobe have both been fined or reprimanded, one for including IE as mandatory in the Windows OS, the other for malpractice in AUS. These companies are giants in their field of play and both have sought the borders of what is allowable under law. You can't blame them for striving for maximum returns, but as a customer your hands are tied.



