9 Replies Latest reply on Jul 7, 2013 6:48 PM by Andrew Yoole

    In points and Out points - Incorrect?

    sircharlesgraham123 Level 1

      In points and out points of layers in After Effects do not match trim layer in point / trim layer out point.

       

      Why is this?

       

       

       

      When I go to the out point of a layer it seems to be one frame in from the end. Thats fine if After Effects is definining this point as the last frame, but it differs when I alt { click to trim layer and the layer is trimmed to exactly that point.

       

      This mis match in After effects is extreemly annouying and completly slows down my work process.

       

      But Im giving adobe the benefit of the doubt - and asking is there something I'm missing here.

       

      Look forward to an explanation.

       

      Thanks

      Graham

        • 1. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
          Dave LaRonde Level 6

          You are indeed at the out point: the FRAME of the out point.  It's how AE does it.  Go one frame past that point if you want to be at the first frame beyond that out point.

          • 2. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
            sircharlesgraham123 Level 1

            Well, I'm just bringing it to light that, day to day this is a tedious task of having to go the one frame past.

             

            Why not just have it meet at the last frame, and have it trim at the last frame. - its not a fluid system at the moment.

            • 3. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

              is there something I'm missing here.

               

              Yes. AE operates on exact time, not arbitrary frames or else things like time-remapping, motion blur calculations and so on would be a hundred times more complicated or even impossible. A frame is sampled at the point where the frame duration starts, hence the actual frame is shown right to the current time indicator with its duration, which naturalyl is several fractions of a second. Really nothing wrong here.

               

              Mylenium

              • 4. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
                sircharlesgraham123 Level 1

                I'm not sure you are getting the gripe I have.

                 

                But thanks for trying to explain.

                • 5. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
                  LernerGHAVA

                  I compleatly agree with you. This has frustrated me for a long time.

                   

                  When pressing O on the keyboard to go to the out point and then selecting a 2nd layer to position its in point to the out point of the first layer. There is always a one frame overlap.

                   

                  I saw the keyboard shortcut "End or Command+Option+Right Arrow" to "Go to end of composition, layer, or footage item". That did not work. I was only able to go to the end of the composition not the end of the last frame in the selected layer.

                   

                  Is there keyboard shortcut that will go to the end of the layer?

                  • 6. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
                    Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    The keyboard shortcut for the last frame of a layer is o for out point. The keyboard shortcut for first frame is i for in point.

                     

                    The difference between a NLE and AE is that when you insert an edit the CTI jumps not to the out point, but to the frame after the out point.

                     

                    Try this in Premiere or any NLE. Select any clip. Set the in point to frame 0 and the out point to frame 10. Insert the clip into the timeline and the CTI will jump to frame 11, not frame 10 and you will not see video. In the preview monitor select go to out point and the CTI will stop at frame 10, which is the out point.

                     

                    My point is that in AE you are not working with a NLE that automatically advances the CTI to the next frame when you insert a clip. You are, in effect, trimming your clips the same way you trim clips in the preview window. If you want to go to avoid the one frame overlap then you need to manually move the CTI that one frame. It makes no practical sense at all for the CTI to show you the frame after the out point when you select out.

                     

                    I hope this is clear. AE treats footage and in and out points exactly as a NLE does. It's exactly the same way things work when you cut film. The in point is the first visible frame, the out point is the last visible frame. AE is not a nle with the ability to add multiple sources to the same layer so there's no real reason for the CTI in AE to automatically advance an extra frame when you really need to see what the last frame looks like.

                    • 7. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
                      LernerGHAVA Level 1

                      Thanks for your reply however I think you misunderstood my question Rick.

                       

                      As I stated, "When pressing O on the keyboard to go to the out point and then selecting a 2nd layer to position its in point to the out point of the first layer. There is always a one frame overlap."

                       

                      Pressing O does not take you to the end of the layer it takes you to the out point. So for example a layer with duration of 1:15 when pressing O the CTI goes to 1:14 in the timeline, not 1:15, which is where the in point for a second layer should begin for a cut which does not have an overlapping frame. So you have to  move forward one frame to avoid the overlap. In other words, press O then cmd+right arrow and you are then at the end of the layer at the correct time. Its a frustrating workflow.

                       

                      My question still stands. Is there keyboard shortcut that will go to the end of the layer?

                      • 8. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
                        Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Is there keyboard shortcut that will go to the end of the layer?

                         

                        No. It takes two. o then Ctrl/Cmnd + right arrow

                         

                        Your definitions and semantics are not accurate. The in point is the first frame, the out point is the last frame. Parking the CTI at the first frame after the out point adds 1 frame's duration to the timeline. If you would call that point anything it may be the insert point or the in point of the next clip.

                         

                        If a layer has a duration of 1:15 and the first frame of the composition is 0 then the last frame will be frame 1:14 not 1:15 so selecting the out point will take you to the last frame of the clip. If you want to talk duration then the duration is still 1:15 because when the clip is playing it will end after the last frame plays, not before it. AE's behavior is mathematically and practically 100% accurate.

                         

                        As I mentioned before, only in a NLE does the CTI snap to the frame after the out point of a layer. When editing it's very important to see both the first and last frame of the clip. The in point is the first frame. The out point is the last frame.

                         

                        What you want is the first frame after the out point (same as a NLE) and there is no single shortcut for that. You can press o for the out point and then Cmnd/Ctrl + Right Arrow, but that is as close you can get to a shortcut.

                         

                        There also is no shortcut in a NLE to go to the next frame after the out point. You can use the up arrow and down arrow to go to the first frame the preceding or the next clip in a sequence, and that makes it easy to accurately insert the next shot, but there is no such feature in AE.

                         

                        Set an in and an out point in PPro in a sequence and jumping to the out point will show you the last frame of the sequence exactly the same as jumping to the out point of a layer in AE.

                         

                        If you want to insert a new layer or placed footage at the CTI in AE then you can change the preferences.  Deselect create layers at composition start time in the General tab.

                        • 9. Re: In points and Out points - Incorrect?
                          Andrew Yoole MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                          An alternative to Ctrl/Cmnd + right arrow for adavancing a frame is the PageDown key on a full keyboard.  So, to advance to the absolute end of the layer, press o then PgDwn.

                           

                          I understand what your gripe is, but I agree with those above that the behaviour is correct.  The out point should be the last visible frame of the layer.  What you're actually asking for is to move beyond the layer.