10 Replies Latest reply on Jun 7, 2013 4:23 PM by Netcommercial

    Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?

    Netcommercial Level 1

      Hello Guys,

      Thanks for being here. I am trying to track a 25 second spot and Mocha keeps kicking the track. My settings match (See pics) I get about halfway thru and my track flies off the spot. I am trying to figure how to add some texture to my foootage so Mocah or AE has something to calibrate off of. Right now I am re trying with Motion Tracker, as I have had many failed attempts trying Mocha. no matter where I place the track screen/matte. To then tie it to a null in my comp. I tried corner pin which worked in the first part of the comp fine. But the second part had a slight jitter and a pan that kicks it... Any ideas on how to get the track to stick? Other then a manual KF? I started that and there are about 550 easy that need attention... Yikes! Right.

      ae settings.PNGmocha settings.PNG

       

      TRACK:

      solid track.PNG

      Point my Track Kicks:

      lose track.PNG

        • 1. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          There's not nearly enough detail in your track. Include  most of the window and hold back the guy. Then make an accurate shape for the mask and link it to the general track. If the reflections in the windows change a bunch you'll have to exclude them too. When you use a planar tracker you need a significant amount of detail in the tracking areas that does not change very much. 

           

          You might also try setting for small tracking areas at the corners of the window frame. That may eliminate the need for hold outs. Just use the add spline tool to mark each corner. I turned my splines= green so you could see them.

           

          Screen Shot 2013-06-05 at 6.56.46 PM.png

          • 2. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
            Netcommercial Level 1

            Ok Rick.... Ease with the Lingo big guy heh heh heh... You lost me in a few spots. "Hold back the Guy" ~my guess to avoid him waling in front of the mask? I did that by moving the sign to the top window....

            2.I know how to make an accurate shape for the mask as you can see in the pic...."Link to the General Track?" It does that automatically does it not once I create one?

             

            3.Small tracking areas at the corners... Are those individual masks or are those a little gadget I an unaware of?

             

            4. Hold outs?

             

            Sorry if these seem elementry to you, however I am not finding any of these terms in my area. Along with a question I asked you on another post, if you did not see it.

            Is there a way to move that mask as one unit when Manually KFing?

            Thanks for the help on this...I gotta go smoke a Cigar and have a snort of brandy on this one!

            • 3. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
              Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I guess it would help if more if I saw your shot. Maybe I'm not understanding what's going on here. I assumed you wanted to was track the movement of the window so that you could replace that part of your shot.

               

              The 4 green splines are what I would use to track the shot. If they hold position properly then you can accurately set up another spline and use that as a matte. The other layer would become Layer 2 in Mocha and you would link it to the track you get with layer 1. 

               

              The key to using mocha is to end up with a good track. I'm assuming that your layer kicking out means that you are having problems with the track and it is requiring a lot of adjustments. The track probably fails because you have such a large area your tracking that has no detail in the shot.

               

              Take a look at this tutorial on Mocha on using the planar tracker. It shows you how to track first then create the roto shape, then link the two together.

               

              About 10 minutes into this tutorial is an explanation of how to make holdouts in Mocha.

               

              I think that having the man walk by the window with the sign is a better design. Putting the sign in the center window is easy. You could also track the man and add a linked roto spline in Mocha to create a matte for the sign or you could use rotobrush to track your man in AE. Here's a possible setup showing what I would use to track the window. You can also see the window replacement rectangle, the track of the man, and the roto spline for the man.

               

              mocha.jpg

              • 4. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                Netcommercial Level 1

                HI Rick,

                Yes, you are correct in my goal of tracking the window area to place my sign. I agree with you about the sign looking better in the middle and Rotoing my actor to have the ability for him to pass in front. As of now I am concerned with getting a proper track for that window, to not be jittery and look like what it is. Superimposed graphic stuck in there.

                 

                Thanks for the video links, they are appreciated. I search around and find a ton of stuff that is a regirg of another lesson. I will take the time to watch those. Thank you for the layout of the track matte, or spline placement. (which I think are one in the same?) 

                 

                A couple of clarity questions please:

                 

                YOU-The 4 green splines are what I would use to track the shot. If they hold position properly then you can accurately set up another spline and use that as a matte. ~  You are referring to 4 seperate mattes in green in your original illustration?  I ask because, I only see one layer in your illustration, yet there are 4 mattes/splines? I am hav not noticed before if I can create more then one spline/matte in a layer?

                 

                YOU-The other layer would become Layer 2 in Mocha and you would link it to the track you get with layer 1.

                ~The "other layer"-this being the first layer with 4 splines? I ask becuase again I did not see a layer for those 4 splines in your C.P in the original Illustration, which I think you are referring to?

                Maybe the videos will enlighten me a bit more...

                 

                The reason you did not address some of my previous questions is becuase my assumptions were correct in regards to the "lingo"?

                 

                I figured out how to move the matte as one unit BTW.... Marquee and drag it around with the Move Icon

                 

                 

                The key to using mocha is to end up with a good track. I'm assuming that your layer kicking out means that you are having problems with the track and it is requiring a lot of adjustments--Correct. Kick means to fly off set point.

                 

                Thanks for showing me a better way to track that shot. I was not thinking out of the box. Literally, I was making boxes. What you did was trace the columns wich have texture. And not making boxes. Appreciated. I will watch those videos.

                 

                One more note, I am going to re-master my asset in PPro, I sped up the footage to 150% for a silent movie feel as this will be done that way and tooning will be added to this. Do you think the 150 Time change over in PP and exporting a Uncompressed AVI at 29.9 FPS would cause Tracker to "Spit the Bit" or Kick?

                • 5. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                  Netcommercial Level 1

                  Rick,

                  http://www.imagineersystems.com/videos/steve-wright-basic-tracking-techniques/view

                   

                  Was the best explanation of how the Planar and Tracker are two different yet intergal tools. Now I see said: "the blind man" Primo thank you. Back at it for some more.

                  For those of you scouring for answers here is another link http://vimeo.com/8057500.

                  to omit a foreground from a background I found understandable and technical BTW.

                   

                  Thanks again Rick. Really appreciate the direct links and time you shared with me.

                  P.S it is Cntrl or Cmmd +A too to move a mask as one unit....

                  • 6. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                    Netcommercial Level 1

                    Worked 8 hours more on it...No Luck on my end....Here are some screen grabs. I have tried everything from 100's of KF's on both the mask out of actor and adjusting the Planar surface with KF's

                    I got close a couple of times then export it with my asset or help wanted sign smaller then I corner pinned it. Then if I adjust the corner pins in my Comp it will only affect the first KF and then reverts back to a smaller then desired or planar sized version??

                     

                    Here is some pics of the attempt...Any other suggestions? I am all eyes and ears. There needs to be a way to etch the glass so the tracker can have something to track

                    gd1.PNGlose1.PNG

                    lose2.PNGlose3.PNG

                    • 7. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                      Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      If you can upload a few frames of your clip to vimeo I can download it and give it a go. I can then send you the Mocha track project by FTP. My first step would be to track the plane where the windows are. Once you get that track then turn off tracking and lock the layer.

                      • 8. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                        Netcommercial Level 1

                        Thanks Rick very kind generous offer. I did however try that, I will give it another 6 hour go today and see if I can get it to sitck.

                        Yes, I do track my FG and then Uncheck the Gear cog to then track my BG building. I have tried many different spots. One would think the cross bars on the window would work? I even tried framing, then frame via a second mask on the same layer. Like One would do for a Tv Monitor with unwanted or busy information on it's screen.

                        I may take you up on that offer to see if you (the master) can get a hold of this thing. I will FTP it to my server (the footage in question) Send you a PM after.

                        I am not sure if you saw this in my earlier post, about the Time Remapp on that footage? I did a time remap of that footage in PPro, I did not have a problem with the first half as my actor enters the scene and building. Although I do have more building to use for a track, in that shot. As opposed to the track I am trying to achieve on the way ouf of the building.  The remapp was done in PP as mentioned at 150% the file was exported as an AVI 29.9 or 25 not on that computer ATM to check. Your thoughts? Whatever the case the footage worked in the first half, it is the middle part that is a challenge. I have yet to try the close or end!

                        Thanks again

                        NC

                         

                        EDIT> Lock the layer.....Hmmm? Maybe that will help?

                        • 9. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          I think your workflow is fouled up. First set the in and out points for your track in AE. Second Track the footage and apply the keyframe data in AE. Fourth, do your masking and or roto work.

                           

                          Follow these steps and you are doing your tracking on the highest quality footage. Once you get that done then you stabilize with warp stabilizer or other means, time remap, and do your other processing.

                           

                          Time remapping or stabilizing before tracking means that you are mis matching frame rates and interpolating pixels which lowers the amount of information you have to work with. It's critical that you do your tracking on footage that has as much data as possible. Your workflow may be 99% of your problem.

                          • 10. Re: Tracker AE or Mocha..Tip or Trick for hanging on to track?
                            Netcommercial Level 1

                            Rick,

                            Thank you for the insight. I was doing it that way. However, I did remap the footage in Prem Pro when it was an MTS AVCHD file THEN I exported that file as an AVI into AE marked my I & O then opened Mocha, double checked my I & O over there, Track Matte my FG, NOT using the track forward and backwards. Only making sure my mask is KF'd to my FG. Should I track that FG too. THEN turn the Gear Cog Icon off, lock the layer FG layer?

                            Then Track my BG fwd or Bkwd and then add my Planar/Corner pin Blue mask to desired spot then export to clipboard and paste to asset in AE.

                             

                            Bold is my question or not sure if that is an issue.  I am not adding any effects in AE I did it in Pre Pro there is a Time remap of the footage as I edited the scenes down to desired lengths and used Time remapp to get the desired length and effect. 150%