10 Replies Latest reply on Jun 14, 2013 5:35 PM by whsprague

    Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?

    RoysScreenName

         Bill Hunt suggested that I size my animations, created in Photoshop and ImageReady, to 1920 x 1080 pixels at 72-dpi for optimal viewing on a 24" widescreen monitor. Ditto both Classroom in a Book and Premiere Elements itself, as regards the intake from my video camera.

         Steve Grisetti on the other hand gives a size of 1000 x 750 as a "standard definition video" and recommends a size of 2000 x 1500 for a still of a map that is to be zoomed in and out of, and to slide across the viewing frame.

       

         This is what's called "cognitive dissonance."

         Anyone have a clarification of this?

       

         Roy

        • 1. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Well, not so much a cognitive dissonance as different applications of the similar principle.

           

          The main point is to not use oversized graphics in your videos. It's the chief cause of program memory overloads.

           

          1920x1080 pixels is the size of a high-definition video frame. That's how large you'd like any video or animation you plan to use in a high-def project. For graphics that you plan to pan and zoom across, you'll want some extra resolution. 2000x1500 is a good rule of thumb, but you can use a graphic even 50% or more larger if you need to for the pan and zoom effect you're looking for.

           

          The point is to not use a graphic much larger than the video frame you're filling. Doing so just taxes the program. (That and the program has a maximum graphic size that it can work with.)

          • 2. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
            RoysScreenName Level 1

               Thanks, Steve. Question now is this: What's the maximum graphic size with which Premiere Elements can work? I haven't found any reference to that in my reading.

             

               Also, I'm going to upload my roughly-four-minute video to Kickstarter.My project video's file size must be 1GB or less and one of the following file types: MOV, MPEG, AVI, MP4, 3GP, WMV, FLV.

               When I right-click on Kickstarter videos, they announce "About WJ Player 5.7.1794" and "About Adobe Flash Player 11.7.700.202." (This last, FP 11.7 etc, is what my laptop uses to view the Kickstarter video. Not sure what this info means.

             

               Two question yet remain . . .

               1- Which of the above Kickstarter file types will yield the smallest footprint?

               2- Insofar as my resultant video will crop out any unused materials, will the size of original stills increase/decrease the output?

             

              Roy

            • 3. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
              Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

              For videos for Kickstarter, I'd recommend you use (in version 11) Publish & Share/Computer/AVCHD with the preset for YouTube HD. This will give you the best quality to size ratio.

               

              As for maximum photo size, maybe one of the others on this forum knows the exact maximum size. I rarely use photos larger than 2500 pixels wide. There's just no point to it -- you don't get better image quality -- and even it's a rare occasion. As I've said, the closer you are to the actual resolution of your video frame (which, for high-def video is 1920x1080) the better your program's performance and the better your results.

              • 4. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                RoysScreenName Level 1

                   "For videos for Kickstarter, I'd recommend you use (in version 11) Publish & Share/Computer/AVCHD with the preset for YouTube HD. This will give you the best quality to size ratio."

                   and

                   "... the actual resolution of your video frame (which, for high-def video is 1920x1080) ..."

                 

                   Cognitive dissonance redux, as in:

                YouTube Widescreen AVCHD WidescreenHD preset -

                Output: NTSC, 1280x720, 24 FPS, De-interlaced

                   The pixel size and frames-per-second rate make me nervous.

                   Would I be better off with a straight Flash setting?

                Adobe Flash Video F4V - HD 108 (Flash 9 and Higher) preset -

                Output: 1920x1080, Same as source fps, De-interlaced

                   This gives me the 1920x1080 and 30fps that I want.

                   Wotcha think?

                   And, if you feel that you can come up with a definitive answer, it might be worthwhile to include it in the next edition of Cool Tricks. So far, I've found nothing on the subject.

                   As for myself, until there actually is a definitive answer, I guess I'll finish my video and produce it in various formats to see which makes the smallest footprint.

                 

                   Also, I need a big picture because I'm zooming in, zooming out, and covering a lot of acreage on an international map. Los Angeles to D.C. to Murmansk to Maastricht to Lisbon to London to Kuwait to Uraguay.

                   Plus, you wisely have a copyright caveat about maps in Cool Tricks. A good workaround is the CIA's World Political Map from the agency's World Factbook. The map is available online. There may be other Public Domain maps from the gov as well.

                 

                   Finally, now recovering from a severely displaced shoulder (laddar slipped out from under me, I fell 14 feet), plus some spinal injury plus injury to left knee.

                   While recuperating, may find time to write a 5-star review of Premiere Elements 11. If so, will add some kind words for Cool Tricks.

                 

                   rh

                • 5. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                  Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

                  I've given you my recommendations for Publish & Share, Roy. Give it a try and see what you think of the results. If you're not happy with it, you can try the Flash output.

                   

                  I'm not sure what to tell you about zooming into a huge graphic to show various stops around the world. You certainly won't be able to use a graphic in Premiere Elements that's large enough to include all that detail.

                   

                  I've been working on a similar graphic to show my stops along the coast of California. I tried a huge, detailed map at first -- but not even After Effects would accept it. So I used a 2000x1500 map of California and, whenever I'd zoom in on a location, cross-fade to detailed map of a given city. It worked great, and it still gives the impression of flying in and out on a map.

                  • 6. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                    RoysScreenName Level 1

                       PE accepted my map. Whether it will accept modifications such as zooming and moving is another question.

                       Photoshop map is 10,785 Mbytes / 3840 pix W x 2782 pix H (53.333 in W x 38.639 in H) at 72 dpi.

                       Will give you a report on results, if any.

                     

                       Might be another strength for Cool Tricks if you'd add a glossary. The online version is a pain in the neck, and inconvenient to use if you've got Cool Tricks open on a little bookstand and a dual-monitor display of Premiere Elements running.

                     

                       rh

                    • 7. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                      whsprague Level 4

                      I acknowledge Steve G's experience with this.  However, I regularly disagree on the point of resizing images.

                       

                      I disagree on two levels.  One is that there is more than enough to do while making a video without adding extra steps and other programs to the work flow.  The second is that it does not seem to slow my computer down at all.  Granted, I have a i7 computer with 16 gigs of memory.  It seems to not care about file size. 

                       

                      I arrived at this discovery as a PrE newbie. I didn't know anything about resizing until I read that it was necessary on this forum.  In fact I didn't know how either.  So, in a 70 minute family reunion video project I added photos from various cameras to the Video 2 track wherever my Video 1 track had a bit of poor quality in it.  Most were .jpgs.  Looking at the screen, the project looked like a mess, but it played well. 

                       

                      When this topic came up before, I spend a day trying to figure it out with various workflow "tests".  I posted the results on YouTube or Vimeo.

                       

                      I've also searched the "official" Adobe instructions and can't find even the word "resize".

                       

                      In a recent slide show project I used a bunch of huge RAW photo files.  PrE11 incorporates Adobe Camera Raw somewhere "under the hood" and it worked fine. 

                       

                      Steve works hard at his excellent books and training videos and Bill Hunt has many years of experience.  I'm retired and play with this.  I'm sure there were versions running on older, weaker computers where photo files caused problems.  I'm also convinced that 64 bit PrE11 on newer computers have overcome those issues. 

                       

                      I don't resize anything!

                      • 8. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                        RoysScreenName Level 1

                           Thanks, Willum . . .

                         

                           I'm bashing ahead in the old "Press On Regardless" style. Suspect that my map will work. Also suspect that a Flash production at 1620 x 1080 / 30fps; will work. However, I think I'll double-check this with a contact I have at Kickstarter.

                         

                           Will keep you posted about results. If you know of some mechanism that will let me show you my work-in-progress, let me know. I can output in whatever video format you wish, dependent on Premiere Elements "Plublish/Share" options. Think you'll be amused by the animations I've created in Photoshop and ImageReady.

                         

                           rh

                        • 9. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          The published max. size WAS 4096 x 4096 pixels, or 16,777,216 total pixels. I say WAS, because that was also the old max. size for PrPro too. However, with PrPro CS 5, with CUDA/MPE acceleration, that was bumped up considerably. However, as PrE does not use CUDA/MPE, I doubt that it got the bump, but I cannot find any definitive statement on PrE 11.

                           

                          Now, it does not take all that many 4096 x 4096 pixel Images, before most computers will "run out of gas," and especially if it is running a 32-bit OS. Because of that, I would limit the use of very large Still Images, even if the program CAN Import them.

                           

                          Good luck, and sorry to be so late to the party. Also, glad that others handled the Kickstart end of the thread, as I have no idea what that is.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Steve Steve Grisetti vs Bill Hunt & "Classroom in a Book" - cognitie dissonance?
                            whsprague Level 4

                            Bill Hunt wrote:

                             

                            ....... I cannot find any definitive statement on PrE 11.

                             

                            Now, it does not take all that many 4096 x 4096 pixel Images, before most computers will "run out of gas," and especially if it is running a 32-bit OS. Because of that, I would limit the use of very large Still Images, even if the program CAN Import them.

                             

                            .......

                             

                            Hunt

                            Now we are beginning to agree. 

                             

                            I put 40 full size DNGs and 10 AVCHD 1080p60 video files into a recent project.  The DNGs are 5460 x 3068 and 80 MB each out of an HDR process.  PrE11 didn't flinch  -- not even a little.  My laptop does have an i7, 16 GB of RAM, 64 bit Win 7 and a SSD.  I'm sure the project would choke a Window XP vintage machine.  But, the weak spot is the machine, NOT PrE11.

                             

                            Bill, you have new laptop.  Try dragging 50 or a 100 full sized RAW photos into fresh PrE11 and see how it does.  Make sure the project settings are forced at AVCHD 1080p60.  Add some transitions and put some Pan & Zoom on them.  I'll bet a bottle of Washington wine for (next winter's consumption in AZ) that you will find it works ver well. 

                             

                            My point in several threads over the last several months is that you should not write that photos need to be re-sized.  Instead you an Mr. Grissetti should consider writing, "Depending on the strength of your computer, you may find resizing will improve the performance of PrE11.  Strong computers may show no change in performance from resizing of photos and in may not be at all necessary."

                             

                            As a side note, if you have not done it, try a Help > Update check.  If you have a fresh install you will probably have ACR 7.1.  No, I don't now how to check what it is.  But, if you do the update, ACR 7.4 will install.  There is something under the hood that uses ACR and it is not video clips!  It appears to me that Adobe has gradually turned PrE into an NLE that will make slide shows and put them into MP4s that play well on YouTube and Vimeo.

                             

                            Let me know if I need to bring that bottle of wine. 

                             

                            Bill (the other one)