10 Replies Latest reply on Jun 11, 2013 10:47 PM by PierreLouisBeranek

    Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!

    PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

      I was overjoyed to find out that Premiere Pro CC will bring us something Adobe users have never had until now... a multicam tool that actually works! (i.e. the painfully stupid 'auto switch back to original camera angle when playback stops' problem has finally been fixed. ALLELUIA!)

       

      However, this video proves that the problem hasn't been so much fixed, as it has been relocated: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-pro-cc/using-clip-mixer-to-adjust-volume-and-pan/.

      This video illustrates, rather to the presenter's repeated frustration, that whenever a user records audio levels live using the new Clip Mixer, stopping playback switches to the original level before playback started (jump to 6:00 into the video to see this happen).  Sounds familiar multicam users?

       

      At this point, I have to ask: SERIOUSLY ADOBE????!!!!!

       

      The pre-CC multicam tool in Premiere was a royal PITA to use due to the serious, and rather unthinkable IMO, lapse of logic in the workflow.  So now, after years of allowing this nonsense to go on, Adobe finally fixes Premiere's multicam workflow only to relocate its completely unwanted 'auto switching' bug to their new Clip Mixer??????

       

      As good of an improvement as Premiere CC may be, this clear-as-a-bell workflow issue is making me lose faith in Adobe.  You'd think that at least 1 programmer on PP's team would have to good sense to see the workflow problem here.  Are we supposed to believe that the quality control at Adobe is this weak?  Or was this done on purpose so that 5 years from now it will finally be fixed and touted as a 'new feature'? (For the record, the fixed Multicam is NOT a new CC 'feature' IMO.  It's just a fix to a problem that never should have been created nor passed QC in the first place.)

       

      Hopefully the 'auto switch back to original audio level' is just a bug that will be fixed soon, rather than a conscious design decision.  Otherwise, I cannot express how disappointing it is to be treated by Adobe as users who don't know any better than to understand just how wrong it is for keyframes to automatically appear when playback stops.  Either way, once I can test PP CC for myself, to confirm the serious issue that the video above illustrates, I will be sending Adobe plenty of official Feature Requests/Bug Reports for them to fix their new tool and make it work properly in accordance to sane human logic.  I would encourage everyone else to do the same.

       

      End of rant.

        • 1. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Curious that the Volume keyframe problem he talks about in the beginning doesn't exist prior to 7.0.  When you adjust the clip volume in CS6, no keyframes are set by default (which is as it should be).  It's almost like Adobe 'invented' a problem to be solved by the new Clip Mixer.

          • 2. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
            joe bloe premiere Level 5

            ..almost like Adobe 'invented' a problem to be solved by the new Clip Mixer.

            Frankly, that smacks of paranoid conspiracy theory to me.

             

             

            http://forums.adobe.com/message/5355989#5355989

            • 4. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
              PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

              I'd love to hear directly from Adobe what they have to say about this.

               

              We never wanted Auto-switching camera angles in the Multicam tool!  After years of us repeating this, Adobe finally listened and fixed it.

               

              We DO NOT WANT Auto-switching audio levels in the Timeline/Clip Mixer either! How many years will we have to repeat this for Adobe to fix it this time?  I'm guessing it could be years given their terrible track record.  For example, it took Adobe 7 years to fix the hard subclip in/out points that were introduced as a 'feature' in Premiere Pro 2.0!  7 years!   And what nerve to call a completely unnecessary limitation a 'feature'!  That's right, Adobe actually spent time and resources creating a limitation in PP 2.0 that wasn't there before!

               

              With paid upgrades, it made economic sense for Adobe to release workflow limitations/screwups on purpose, only to lure users down the road into a paid upgrade that fixed the problem and claimed the fix to be a 'new feature'.  However, with their new CC monthly subscription model, there is absolutely no more financial incentive to do this.  Or is there?

               

              So what's the reason this time Adobe?

              From your experience with the Multicam mess, it should be clear as a bell that no one wants this 'auto-switch back to original value' nonsense.

               

              Is it an unintentional bug?  Okay, please fix it ASAP! (preferably before 7 years from now in 2020!)

              Was this done on purpose?  Then please replace the culprit(s) with people that actually understand editing and workflows meant for humans.

               

              I might sound indignant but that's because I am!  This issue is serious and deserves a full-fledged reaction from every editor that values their time enough to want to spend it on other things than constantly removing automatically created junk keyframes!

               

              The guy doing the tutorial video was clearly irritated by this workflow problem.  I can only imagine just how annoyed editors will be with it once they start using Premiere's upcoming Clip Mixer.

              • 5. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
                DMH79 Level 2

                You scared me. I read the title and thought "No...wait...the damn multicam video edit issue still happens elsewhere?!" Oh, thank god it's still gone. (deep breath, sigh) But yeah, watching that video its clearly evident that this is an annoyance and will certainaly bother everyone who uses Clip Mixer. If the guy on Adobe TV's videos continually says it's an issue throughout the video, then you know it's an issue. I'd hope they're already on it and will have a fix soon.

                 

                Would love to hear a staff member's thoughts on this awesome new feature's nasty little bug.

                • 6. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
                  PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                  Didn't mean to scare you DMH79!

                   

                  But this is a scary bug.  I was thrilled to find out about the Clip Mixer and know I'll be using it a lot... but if it doesn't work properly what's the point?  I'm guessing it's just a bug, and here's hoping Adobe can fix it pronto!

                  • 7. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
                    Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    OK, pipe down.

                    The Audio clip mixer does work properly. The clip mixer does have latch and touch which explains the behavior of the keyframes you have been seeing.

                    It is not easy making tutorials  months prior to release date.

                    • 8. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
                      PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                      I stand corrected.

                       

                      I got the following answer from a great PP supporter, Bart Walczak, which explains what's going on very well:

                       

                      *******************

                      Regarding the thread - unfortunately Ann Benns is correct. There are two modes in the audio clip mixer - latch and touch. In the latch mode, the levels stay where you put them. In the touch mode, the fader moves to 0 after you stop pressing it. It's the way most professional audio equipment works, and believe it or not, in the mixing environment it actually can be a feature. You can freely switch between these modes in the panel menu.

                      You may blame the instructor for not knowing about this switch - although it means that he doesn't really understand what he's doing - but not Adobe. The mixer is working as it should, some people simply don't know how to operate it.

                      ******************

                       

                      The only thing I would change in Bart's explanation is to say that 'fortunately' Ann is correct, rather than 'unfortunately'.  I'd much rather be proved wrong and find out that there isn't a problem where I thought there was one, than vice versa!

                       

                      Thanks for pointing this out Bart and Ann!

                      Boy did that tutorial video ever get me worried about the Multicam fiasco coming back to haunt us under a different guise!

                      • 9. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
                        Sengstack Level 1

                        PierreLouisBeranek wrote:

                        You may blame the instructor for not knowing about this switch - although it means that he doesn't really understand what he's doing - but not Adobe. The mixer is working as it should, some people simply don't know how to operate it.

                         

                        ==========

                         

                        I am that instructor. At the time I created the tutorial (April 2013) and up to this moment, the Premiere Pro prerelease site, new features documents had not noted that there was an option in the Audio Clip Mixer panel fly-out menu to choose between "Keyframe Mode Latch" and "Keyframe Mode Touch" (it's set to "Latch" by default).

                         

                        Had I known, I would have tested those options. In any event, it appears P Pro's Track and Clip Audio Mixers' Write, Latch, and Touch features behave incorrectly. No matter which option you select (you can choose only Latch or Touch in the Audio Clip Mixer), after stopping playback, P Pro adds a keyframe, one frame after the stopped position, at the volume level when you started recording keyframes in the Mixer.

                         

                        This behavior does not match standard Write, Latch, and Touch methods. At the very least it should match the way things work in Audition and other audio products like Logic Pro:

                         

                        Write: When playback starts, overwrites existing keyframes with current settings. Continues to record new settings until playback stops.

                         

                        Latch: Begins recording keyframes when you first adjust a setting, and continues to record new settings until playback stops.

                         

                        Touch: Similar to Latch, but gradually returns settings to previously recorded values when you stop adjusting them. Use Touch to overwrite specific sections of automation while leaving others intact.

                         

                        Bottom line: only Touch reverts to the original volume level and it should do that gradually. In Audition, the duration of the change can be set in preferences.

                         

                        In any event, I have filed a bug report on this. I plan to re-record the tutorial once I hear back on what Adobe plans to do about this behavior.

                         

                        Jeff Sengstack

                        • 10. Re: Multicam fiasco isn't over... it just got moved!
                          PierreLouisBeranek Level 1

                          Hi Jeff,

                          Thanks so much for chimming in!

                          No matter which option you select (you can choose only Latch or Touch in the Audio Clip Mixer), after stopping playback, P Pro adds a keyframe, one frame after the stopped position, at the volume level when you started recording keyframes in the Mixer.

                           

                          Shoot!  So it seems that the super annoying auto-creating keyframes that your tutorial shows are unavoidable.

                          Bugger.  I'll test this as soon as I get my hands on PP CC and you can bet that I'll be bugging Adobe to fix it pronto.  Nobody wants to go through yet another 'Muticam fiasco'!

                           

                          Ann, can you confirm Jeff's findings that no matter which mode is used, an unwanted keyframe gets created at the pre-adjustment level?