16 Replies Latest reply on Jun 21, 2013 9:13 AM by Eric T Arroyo

    Is GTX 770 worth it?

    Eric T Arroyo Level 1

      I'm looking to upgrade my video card to the GTX 770, but I haven't seen any tests done anywhere on it yet. Does anyone know if this card is worth the purchase for AE CS5.5 or AE CS6? The price isn't a concern, but if I'm only going to get a 1% increase in render time for previews then I won't bother spending the money. Basically I want to be able to make edits faster without having to wait 5 to 10 seconds every time I click anything.

       

      My biggest issue is with the automated rotoscoping. My computer takes forever to process through the frames and if I load something else into RAM then come back to it later it needs to run through the entire thing again... Which means about 30 minutes of sitting and waiting for a 10 second roto to do it's thing. Maybe the issue is that rotoscoping doesn't use my GPU? But if I look at my performance monitor my CPU usage only gets up to a max of about 50% while rendering so I'm not sure where my bottleneck is. I'm not at my home computer now so I can't give a complete list of specs, but here is a start to the list:

       

      Core i-7 Overclocked to 3.9GHz (Water cooled)

      Nvidia GTX 460 SE

      16GB CS7 RAM

      128GB SSD (Sata II) - OS, programs, and current project.

      240GB SSD (Sata III) - Current project's video files and cache.

      500GB 7200RPM HDD - Production music and effects like explosions, smoke, rain, etc.

       

      My second issue is just the normal playback of a 1080p video in AE CS5.5... with no effects. At first play through the video is crawling along while it's loaded into RAM. It'll play back fine once it's in RAM. The odd part is that I can play 8 to 10 1080p videos in a grid pattern in Premiere Pro CS5.5 in real time with no lag. I do know that Premiere Pro is using the CUDA cores to render those frames though so maybe the difference is that AE doesn't use the CUDA cores for rendering frames? Lots of questions. Hopefully someone can shed some light on all of this for me. Thanks in advance for the help!!

        • 1. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
          danny princz Level 1

          Upgrading your GPU will do nothing for the "issues" you are having.

           

          The best upgrade you can make is more RAM to keep footage from being cached to disk.

          I tend to like at least 32GB ram on a work machine. Ive found it makes a huge difference over 16GB on several machines i have worked on.

          sounds like you already have an SSD for cache so you are all set there.

           

          as far as playback goes, thats how ae works. it tooks the footage from disk and loads it in to ram first. once its in ram it will playback in realtime.

           

          CUDA in after effects is pretty much limited to the raytracer which you didnt mention. Thats is the main area where you would see a speed up as far as CUDA goes.

           

          The UI and some other parts use openGL but its not like you have the slowest card in the world. it should do ok.

           

          RAM will make the biggest difference

          • 2. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
            Eric T Arroyo Level 1

            Thanks for the quick reply.

             

            Unfortunately I didn't think far enough ahead when I built my PC so my motherboard only supports a max of 16GB of RAM. And I didn't want to upgrade my motherboard until I upgrade the processor... which I didn't want to upgrade until Intel releases an octal core processor with hyperthreading.

             

            Yeah, I won't be using the raytracer anytime soon. Although I did read something about fast previews with AE CS6 that uses that GPU to render previews quickly. Do you know if that makes much of a difference at all compared to CPU rendering? I suppose I could just download the 30 day CS6 trial and see how much of a difference it makes with my current card.

             

            Looks like I may be stuck with what I've got for a while.

             

            Thanks!

            • 3. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
              danny princz Level 1

              oh, missed that you are not on CS6.

               

              that alone will speed thinks up a lot, especially with your SSDs

               

              download the trial and make sure you update to the newest version and set your disk cache to your SSD

              • 4. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                > I did read something about fast previews with AE CS6 that uses that GPU to render previews quickly

                Where did you read that? It's false.

                 

                As Danny said, the GPU is used by very little in After Effects. The details are here for CS6 and later:

                http://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2012/05/gpu-cuda-opengl-features-in-after-effects-cs6. html

                 

                Also, as Danny said, you should focus on RAM, CPU, and fast disks before even thinking about the GPU for After Effects, especially for the things that you said you're working on.

                 

                See this page for resources about making After Effects work faster: http://adobe.ly/eV2zE7


                See this page for information about hardware for After Effects: http://adobe.ly/pRYOuk

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                  Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                  Thanks Danny, I'll give that a shot tonight and let you know how it goes.

                   

                  Thanks for the links Todd. Looks like I misread it. On a second read through I see that it only speeds up ray-traced rendering, which I'm not doing anyway.

                   

                  Looks like my decision now is going to be whether or not I wait for a better CPU to upgrade my motherboard because I've maxed out everything I can currently. I just don't want to upgrade the mother board just to have to change it again when I upgrade the CPU... granted, I don't intend on doing that for another year or two anyway.

                   

                  Thanks again for all the help guys. Looks like I've got a bunch of reading to do tonight.

                  • 6. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                    Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                    Alright, so I spent a few days doing some research on this and I've decided to upgrade my cpu and mobo instead of the video card.

                     

                    Now I have another problem to solve. Do I get the I7-3820 that can handle 64GB of RAM or do I get the significantly faster (in benchmarks) I7-4770k, but be limited to only 32GB of RAM? I currently have an i7-870 so both are significantly faster than that.

                     

                    I don't care as much about having really long previews as I do about being able to Roto faster and make other effect modifications faster.

                     

                    Do you think the difference between 32GB and 64GB is significant enough to warrant getting a slower processor? Or maybe you could offer another processor that's comparable to the i7-4770k in performance and price, but also supports 64GB of RAM?

                    • 7. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      This is a rather fundamental question. Do you go for an extremely limited 1150 or 1155 platform, a main-stream system or do you want to go for a high-end 2011 platform with huge expandability options? The price difference is also something to consider, so what is your budget?

                       

                      SB, IB and Haswell, despite nice benchmarks are still very limited. You can not install anything else than a single video card, no dedicated raid controller, no AJA, BM or Matrox card, nothing, unless you accept a 10-15% performance penalty.

                       

                      SB-E, IB-E and Haswell-E do not have these limitations on the 2011 platform with their 40 PCIe lanes, which allows for installing two video cards and a dedicated raid controller without performance penalties, or any other combination of PCIe cards.

                       

                      Coming from a main stream system, there is quite a performance gap when you cross over to a high-end system. Even now, a nicely overclocked Haswell system is more than 3 times slower than the fastest high-end system, but you have to pay.

                       

                      If you stay on a main stream system, even with a Haswell, the GTX 770 is overkill. The 760 would be the more appropriate choice.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                        Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                        Hi Harm, thanks for the fast response.

                         

                        I didn't realize how limited the 1150 and 1155 platform was. The 1150 motherboards listed Raid and multiple graphics cards, but of course didn't mention the performance penalty so thanks for the heads up on that.

                         

                        My budget is somewhere between $500 and $600 to upgrade the motherboard and CPU, yeah, not a big budget. However, I use AE as a hobby and have no intentions of ever using any of my projects to make money so as nice as a 12 core system with 64 GB of RAM and Raid 0 Sata III SSDs would be, it's definitely out of my budget.

                         

                        That being said, I do work on relatively "big" projects with many memory and processor heavy effects. My most recent project has 40+ layers where 9 layers were 1080p videos playing simultaneously, time remapping on most of those videos, 2 rotoscopes on those videos, multiple chroma key effects, color finesse on everything, 15ish solids, and a bunch of other less "intense" effects/layers. So I do try to upgrade my system gradually.

                         

                        From what you wrote it sounds like the 2011 socket would be my best bet, even if I have to get a less powerful processor now because I would be able to upgrade to a high end processor later. Whereas with an 1150 I would have to upgrade both the processor and mobo again in the future.

                         

                        Here's another question. When you say "high-end" are you referring to the intel Xeon 8 core server processors? If so, do the 2011 server processors typically need a different mobo than the regular 2011 processors?  I guess I'm not sure where the line is between main stream and high-end.

                        • 9. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          Eric,

                           

                          With that budget, I would suggest a Z87 motherboard and a Haswell i7-4770K CPU, plus 16 GB (2 x 8GB) to start with. When you have saved enough, you can expand the memory to 4 x 8GB.

                           

                          As for the video card, a GTX 650 Ti Boost would suffice for this system and keep costs down, although you would still go over budget with these choices. Next thing would be to optimize your disk setup, but you have to plan that carefully, because you are reliant on the on-board SATA connections.

                          • 10. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Eric,

                             

                            Of course I do not know where you are living but if you (or a very good friend) live anywhere close to a Microcenter store they have some real sweet deals going.  Here is what I just picked up:

                             

                            i7-4770K

                            Gigabyte  GA-Z87X-UD4H

                            Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO Universal CPU Cooler

                             

                            The total price was $477.72 with sales tax.  Now this an in store pick-up only price.you cannot order on line for delivery.

                             

                            http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

                            • 11. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                              Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                              Thanks Harm,

                               

                              I've been doing a bunch more research since I last posted and found out that if I save up for a few more months I can get the I7-3930k and either a sabertooth or a P9X79 PRO. I already have 16GB of RAM, an okay video card, and a combo of ssd's and hdd's.

                               

                              Do you have any recommendations or insight on those two motherboards?

                              • 12. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                                Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                                Wow, that is a sweet deal!

                                 

                                I just saw some of those awesome deals today. I live about an hour from a microcenter so if I find a good enough deal I'll definitely make the drive. I've been eyeballing the I7-3930k for $500. I might buy that now then save up for the motherboard.

                                • 13. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                                  Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                                  Thanks again everyone for the valuable input. I ended up finding out that I had another $100 in rewards to use and was able to sell some old unused things to get enough money together to get the I7-3930k with an Asus P9X79 Pro motherboard. In a few months I'll try to get another 16GB of RAM to get me to 32 and that should about do it for me.

                                   

                                  Harm, you seem really knowledgeable in this area, could you suggest a MINIMUM processor, RAM, and HDD/SDD setup someone should have before considering a GTX 770? (Before they would reap any noticeable benefits from the GPU).

                                   

                                  Obviously I'm sure this will be different based on the type of work someone is doing so let's assume CS6 is used for the following examples. The first will be a 1080 project with something simple like Roto scoping (simple to do for the person, not the processor), multiple 1080p videos and some color correction. (I'm thinking someone would never see any benefits with the GPU no matter how high end there system is with this type of editing so this may be a poor example).

                                   

                                  Then for the second setup something more complicated like 4k video with multiple 3D bodies, Ray Tracing, 3D camera tracking, several particle systems and several moving cameras with depth of field turned on.

                                   

                                  Basically, I'm just trying to get the original question answered about the GTX 770 in case someone who already has a high end system finds this thread and wants to know if they will see a difference.

                                  • 14. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Eric, you can buy those deals online and then you have 24-hours to pick up in the store and it will have been pulled and waiting for you, so they will not have run out when they get there

                                     

                                    About the GTX 770 you gave us info on your timeline sturcture but did not tell us what your output format will be. If you do any scaling, change pixel aspect ratio, change frame rates alot then it might be worthwhile to upgrade to a slightly better board as it will reduce the encoding time.  If that part of the process and time to perform those operations then is not significant then a more expensive board is board overkill.  

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Eric,

                                       

                                      Your question prompted me to write this article: Adobe Community: What is the best video card for my system?

                                       

                                      I hope this answers your question a bit.

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: Is GTX 770 worth it?
                                        Eric T Arroyo Level 1

                                        Thanks Harm!

                                         

                                        That's exactly what I was looking for and is very well explained. I'm going to bookmark that article and use it as a reference from here on out.

                                         

                                        Bill, thanks for the info on the scaling, aspect ratio, and frame rates. I didnt' know that took advantage of the GPU. I typically don't do any of that, but now I'll pay more attention and try not to convert anything unnecessarily.

                                         

                                        Looks like that wraps up this thread. Thanks again to everyone for all the help!