14 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2014 7:23 AM by Lucian C.

    Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?

    Jan-Leo Kaak

      I want to build a serious system for video editing/composing. I'll be using Pr, Sg, Ae (with Element) and 3ds max (just getting started). I read that the GTX card's specs are a lot higher, but the Quadros are recommended for editing and 3D apps. I was planning on integrating the K5000 and came across the much cheaper GTX Titan and lower cards. I also read through other discussions but am still confused. I won't use a 10-bit monitor. I do not plan on playing games on this computer. Just editing and composing. Most of all I'd like my render times to become a lot faster. And with the new Raw video for the 5D Mark III I will edit a lot of 2.2k raw footage. I want it to play smoothly without fps breakdowns even with effects apllied. Element will do some 3D stuff for me in AE. I'm thinking about getting more advanced in 3ds Max as well. What card would do the better job? I'm really not a computer nerd. I had a friend configure a system for me. This is what he came up with:
      i7 3970x

      32gb 2400mhz

      512 SSD

      WD Red in external raid

      DX79 TO Intel Mainboard

      Quadro K5000 (not sure about this one)

       

      What configuration would work best and is expandable in the future?

        • 1. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          >won't use a 10-bit monitor

           

          Then buy a faster GTX card... for less $$

           

          View the results at http://ppbm5.com/

          • 2. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
            Jan-Leo Kaak Level 1

            Which one should I get? Will other components need to be upgraded as well, or does the rest look good? Should I get multiple cheaper cards or one very high end? 

            Is the only advantage of the Quadro the 10-bit?

            I just noticed, that the GTX 680 is only €330. Is it possible and/or would you recommend to buy two or more and put them in the machine?

            • 3. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              I suggest you start reading Intro Part 1 and then continue reading all the rest of the articles under the Latest News.

               

              Then explain why only 32 GB, why the i7-3970X and not the i7-3930K, why the Intel mobo and not an Asus or Gigabyte, what external raid, what level and how many disks and its planned connection with which raid controller.

               

              Do you plan on overclocking?

               

              There are numerous questions I have about the components your friend has chosen and they impact immediately on the kind of video card that makes sense. Based on your screen name, I'm assuming you are Dutch. If so drop me a PM with your phone number and I will give you a call.

              • 4. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                Jan-Leo Kaak Level 1

                Thanks so far. I will definetly start reading.

                Here is what I know (he told me):
                32GB is faster in 8x4 than 64GB in 8x8. Any special brand I should use for ram? My buddy planned on Kingston Hyper X Beast 2400.

                The 3970x is faster and more powerful. From what I understand... what is the advantage of the 3930k except for the price?

                No clue about the motherboard.

                Since I'm still trying to keep things mostly inexpensive I was looking at the RaidSonic Icy Box (4-bay) with WD Reds. the reason I'd like to have external is if I want to expand and buy more storage I just want to add another raid tower instead of changing my internal HDDs. I want to mirror one drive so it has exacty the same data as the other one, in case it fails. 4 drives because 1 video, 1 photo, 2 backup (mirrored). This should be raid 1 from what I've read. Please try to convince me of a better solution to store my data.

                Overclocking sounds smart. I guess I'll do it.

                Thank you so much for your help, I really apreciate it.

                And I'm German by the way. Still in the US for another 4 weeks though.

                • 5. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Since I'm still trying to keep things mostly inexpensive...

                   

                  Not with very much success, I must say.

                   

                  ItemComponentPriceAlternative

                  Alternate

                  Price

                  Savings
                  1i7-3970X€ 910i7-3930K€ 510€ 400
                  2

                  32 GB Kingston

                  Hyper X Beast

                  Will not work!!!

                  € 30064 GB G.Skill Ripjaws Z F3 2400€ 580-/- € 280
                  3512 GB SSD€ 400128 GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD€ 120€ 280
                  4DX79 TO mobo€ 200Asus P9-X79 Pro€ 270-/- € 70
                  5Quadro K5000€ 1820GTX 770€ 370€ 1450
                  6Storage solutionPM
                  --

                  Total€ 3620
                  € 1850€ 1770

                   

                  1. The only advantages of the 3970X are the higher standard clock speed, which loses all relevancy if you overclock, and the 15 MB L3 cache versus 12 MB L3, which has very limited value, especially when overclocking.
                  2. It is nonsense that 4 GB sticks are faster than 8 GB sticks, assuming the same timings. In both cases the slots are fully populated, so quad channel is fully used. Kingston Hyper X Beast will not work at all in a fully populated configuration, because it is 1.65V memory.
                  3. 512 GB is a waste of space for OS & programs, 128 GB is more than enough.
                  4. Intel has a pretty lousy reputation with regards to overclockability and it misses two SATA 6G ports in comparison to the Asus.
                  5. The 770 is way faster than a K5000 for a fraction of the price.
                  6. The rest will only be about the storage solution, so read on.

                   

                  Raid 1 doubles the price of your storage solution and gives no performance gain at all. The only connections you have available are 4 internal SATA 3G ports, one of which is in use for a BDR or DVD burner, which can not be reliably connected to a 6G port. Only three left. Mixing SATA 3G and 6G ports is always a bad idea when using raids.

                   

                  External devices need a connection and you are quickly running out of SATA connections and then even (e)SATA is too slow for external storage when using raid arrays. Unless you want extremely costly solutions (think € 10K+) there is no sense in going external.

                   

                  Why even consider a CPU like the i7-3970X and a K5000 card if the rest is so extremely underpowered? That makes no sense at all.

                   

                  You need a lot of disks, you never have enough, but you need to rethink your raid solution. I give you something else to read: Adobe Community: To RAID or not to RAID, that is the question

                   

                  With the basic components you chose above or with my alternative list, you have to consider a dedicated raid controller and many disks to make it work as you want.

                   

                  Currently it looks like you want a Ferrari 599, but only with the gearbox of a Fiat 500. If you want to build a serious system, count on spending around 30 - 35% of the total budget on disks and another 10 - 15% on a dedicated raid controller. Then you will have much, much better performance, and security against disk failures.

                  • 6. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                    Jan-Leo Kaak Level 1

                    Wow. I think we're getting there. I just changed some of the components as well.

                    3930k

                    64gb Ram

                    256gb SSD

                    P9X79

                    GTX 680 (maybe upgrade to SLI later)

                    I'll read through the raid post. I was thinking I'd need something totally different than what I had in mind. Most important for me is still the mirrored backup though.

                    • 7. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Most important for me is still the mirrored backup though.

                       

                      Are you sure or just paranoid? HDD's today are pretty reliable, especially if you use enterprise 24/7 disks.

                       

                      I have 24 disks (all internal btw) in a single raid volume, a raid30, which consists of three 7 disk raid3 arrays, striped together with 3 global hot-spares. It gives me sustained transfer rates of around 3.5 - 4.0 GB/s (yes, GigaBYTES/s) and can reliably work without any data loss with 6 failed disks, or in a worst case scenario, with 4 disks failing simultaneously, at the same moment. How big are the chances of that happening?

                      • 8. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                        Jan-Leo Kaak Level 1

                        Since I'm totally new to RAID I'm trying quite hard to understand all this information.

                        Is it possible to build an array with let's say 8TB and expand it later, or do I have to start with the final storage amount?

                        What parts do you use/recommend? It seems internal will work, but I assume the tower has to have enough slots/cages to store all the drives.

                        I still don't quite understand how RAID 3 is safe but I get that it is. I didn't know before, that's why I wanted to have everything mirrored.

                        Could you please give me information about what you are using or what I should get, so I can do some research? What I need to know is what exactly I need for internal RAID and how much of it.

                        The Asus mobo has a RAID of some kind on it. To what extent is this usable?

                        Thanks so much for telling me all this.

                         

                        Google tells me that your suggested RAM is 1.65V as well?

                        • 9. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          You would be best off with these memory modules: G.Skill RipJaws Z F3 2133

                           

                          They only rate 2133 but I have no problem with them running at 2182. They are even better priced now € 560.

                           

                          What I'm using is fully documented under the Latest News menu on the link I gave you previously, but here it is again: Intro Part 1 and all the following articles under that menu.

                          • 10. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                            Jan-Leo Kaak Level 1

                            So I read through it again and did some more research and it seem there is no (reasonable) way around an extra RAID controller card. So I was looking through them and I find the Areca ARC-1223-8I quite appealing. Would that card work? I don't think I'll need the amount of storage you have in your 24 disk array. Now again the question: can I start out with 4x 4TB and add the other 4x 4TB later? In a RAID 3 or 5 config. I have the total disk space minus one disk, right? In case one disk fails, I can just replace it and the data will be restored? A RAID 30/50 gives me more speed but the total space gets reduced by 2 disks, correct? If I start out with 4 drives in RAID 3/5 and later add 4 more drives, can I change to RAID 30/50 or would I lose my data?

                             

                            I looked at external RAIDs, specificly the Sharkoon 8-Bay RAID with USB 3. I guess I shouldn't even consider that one, or maybe should I?

                            So many questions. I'm really thankful for your time and help.

                            • 11. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              First, let's start with the storage capacity you need. You mention 4 x 4TB to start with and later doubling that to 8 x 4TB. Using a raid3 you will start with (4 - 1) = 3 x 4TB = 12TB net capacity. Sustained transfer rates will be around

                               

                              0.85 x (N-1) x T, where N is the number of disks and T is the transfer rate of a single disk, so initially around 400 MB/s.

                               

                              After expansion to 8 disks, net storage capacity increases to (8 - 1) = 7 x 4TB = 28 TB and transfer rates will improve to around 950 MB/s. In this case you can lose ONE disk without data-loss.

                               

                              An alternative would be to start with 8 x 2TB disks, 7 in a raid3 and one hot-spare, giving you a net capacity of 12 TB to start with and a sustained transfer rate of around 800 MB/s. Then later add another 8 x 2TB in an identical raid3 plus another hot-spare, so you end up with two raid3 arrays, each giving you 12 TB capacity for a total of 24 TB. Each array can have TWO disk failures (one is secured by the parity and one by the hot-spare). Now the next step is to stripe these two raid3 arrays and create a single raid30 with a net capacity of 24 TB and a sustained transfer rate around 1600 MB/s. In total this allows for 4 disk failures without data loss, two per each raid3 member arrays.

                               

                              I go into this topic so deeply to show that you can improve performance and security at the same time by using more but smaller disks in the array volume.

                               

                              There is one downside however and that is that the raid controller needs more ports. 16 in this case.

                               

                              ComponentDisks

                              Total

                              Price

                              Alternative

                              Alt.

                              Price

                              HGST Ultrastar, initially4 x 4TB€ 12408 x 2TB€ 1160
                              HGST Ultrastar, expansion4 x 4TB€ 12408 x 2TB€ 1160
                              Areca ARC 1223-8i
                              € 500NA-
                              Areca ARC 1882-iX-16NA-
                              € 940

                               

                              There are a number of significant differences between these two raid controllers. The 1223 uses an older IOP that runs at 800 MHz, has only 512 MB DDR2-800 cache, is limited to 8 ports and only supports PCIe-2.0. The 1882-iX-16 uses the latest IOP that runs at 1333 MHz, has standard 1 GB DDR3-1333 cache, expandable to 4 GB, has 16 internal ports plus 4 external ports and supports PCIe-3.0.

                               

                              My preference would be clear from my arguments.

                              • 12. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                                Lucian C.

                                Dear Mr. Harm,

                                I've read your articles and it looks like you really know your stuff. I am looking ot build a workstation for my workplace and i would really appreciate your advice - i do architectural renderings in 3ds max and a little post work in photoshop. At home i work on a macpro 2009 with some upgrades so i don't really know what to choose.  Basically if i'd have the perfect conditions i would buy what you suggested above and that would be that. But there are 2 factors i have to consider : i don't have enough money to get a good raid card (will be a later investment, but for now raid is not an option) and i have to buy all the components locally (if something happens my boss wants to just call the guys and have them come over and fix it). So here are my problems:

                                Cpu: should i go for the the  i7-3930K - or - i7-4930k - or should i buy a newer haswell bridge cpu  - something like the i7- 4770k -

                                Mobo - i could not find the Asus P9-X79 Pro version, just a plain asus p9-x79 version - and if i am to go for a haswell proccessor i could not find a mobo with more than 4 memory sockets

                                Memory  - i tried looking for those ripjaws - could not find them anywhere in my country - so i'm left with either corsair vengeance  or kingston hyper beast  - both being  1.65 memory - but i can only afford 32 Gb - so for now a fully populated configuration is no an issue -

                                video card - i can get a asus gtx 770 2 gb or a msi or gigabyte version with 4 gb  - which one would you suggest - i'm thinking in terms of reliability - the price difference is small

                                the 128 GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD as you suggested and for storage i can go for 3-4 1tb hdd

                                Thank you so much for your time and advice.

                                • 13. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  Only Mobile and Desktop platform are Haswell. The X79 is the workstation platform and that is Ivy-E. The board you want to look for is Asrock Extreme 9 and the CPUs would be the 4930K or 4960X. You can use a 4770 on that board. That is a desktop chip. That would require a Z87 board and then the Asus line up is the way to go. Since this is for Max then I would look at the 770GTX 4GB card or the 780Ti. I would also suggest you take a look at Octane. You wont need a raid controller here. I would look at a SSD for your OS and another SSD for the media. The Crucial M500 960GB drives are ideal for media. The ram should be 1.5V ram at the highest and 1.35V ideally. The X79 boards have 8 slots so 1.35V ram is preferable there. Follow the QVL if you dont know what to look for. Just keep in mind it's not always update to date because the Dimm production market is so volatile. Normally Samsung, Crucial, and Gskill have been good to look at lately on the x79 boards lately.

                                   

                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: Where is the main difference between the GTX and Quadro cards?
                                    Lucian C. Level 1

                                    Thank you for your helpfull reply eric. I got 2 ssd's and it feels like i made a good choice.

                                    Lucian