10 Replies Latest reply on Jun 18, 2013 5:16 AM by Steve Grisetti

4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

viewfromnowhere Jun 16, 2013 10:56 PM

Hi there. My first post on the forums, so please be kind!

I've imported some archival footage that is 4:3 aspect ratio. I open a 'new' project and click change settings, and select either of the two available project settings that have 4:3 aspect ratios (NTS - DV - Standard or NTSC - Hard Disk - Standard) . But when I import the footage into Premiere, I still get a (slight) black bar on both the right and left sides of the image—it's not properly flush, even though the aspect ratio of my setting matches the aspect ratio of my footage. The footage I'm using is from archive.org, so the footage is all from the '50s or so. I know it's not a problem with the Archive footage, since I could import it into my ten-year-old Dell into Windows Movie Maker and it would be flush with the aspect ratio. The only thing I can think to do is stretch the image slightly so it makes it flush, but that's incredibly time-consuming when you're working with multiple clips--and it degrades the image and cuts off visual footage. Is there a better way to fix this--get the black bars on the right and left to go away so it's all image?

Edit: Included a picture in case it helps.

Message was edited by: viewfromnowhere

1. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

Steve Grisetti Jun 17, 2013 5:14 AM (in response to viewfromnowhere)

Most likely this has to do with the codec and frame size of the footage. As you can see it's not true 4:3. It's slightly taller and/or not quite as wide.

Open the footage in a program called G Spot. (http://download.cnet.com/GSpot/3000-2248_4-10381198.html) It will list the codec, frame rate and resolution for the file.

Once we have that information, we can advise you how best to resolve this issue.
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2. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

viewfromnowhere Jun 17, 2013 3:50 PM (in response to Steve Grisetti)

Hi there. Thanks for the instructions. I've done this.

According to GSPOT the file is 4:3 — 320 X 240
According to PREMIERE the settings are — 720 X 480, which is 1:5??

When I pick the Premiere settings, though, it says it will be 4:3 but that the frame size for the video settings are 720 X 480 ... ?

So it seems to me like the error is with Premiere. Is there a way to change the frame size in Premiere to something that equals 320 X 240?

Or is there something else I should be doing? I've included pics of GSPOT, Premiere project settings, and the Premiere 'change settings' page:

**I should note that the frame size setting in Premiere is greyed out and I cannot type in 320 x 240 the way it is, unless there's a way to un-grey it.
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3. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

A.T. Romano Jun 17, 2013 4:28 PM (in response to viewfromnowhere)

viewfromnowhere

There is no error with Premiere Elements with regard to 720 x 480 as it relates to NTSC DV video 4:3, 720 x 480. This all goes to "Square Pixels versus Non Square Pixels (often referred to as rectangular)". 720 x 480 is the non square pixel equivalent of 640 x 480 (4:3) square pixels. SG will explain further when he answers the question that you two are discussing. Until he returns, you might want to check out these online articlse explaining non square and square pixel and how it relates to the matter that you present.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/gerard_rick/pixel_madness.php
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/205/872969

ATR
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4. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

viewfromnowhere Jun 17, 2013 4:35 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)

Thank you for these links. I am a total noob when it comes to this stuff, and I was not aware of this. I'm not sure precisely how I can fix this problem (or if this is the exact source of the problem), or why it was that my Windows Movie Maker circa 2004 never seemed to create the black bars when in 4:3 and the same footage, but I look forward to further advice on this issue. Thanks again.
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5. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

Ann Bens Jun 17, 2013 5:16 PM (in response to viewfromnowhere)

That is because Adobe change (2009?) the Pixel Aspect Ratio for DV footage (rectangular/non-square pixels), hence the black bars on the side.
You can correct this by slightly scaling the footage up.
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6. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

viewfromnowhere Jun 17, 2013 5:42 PM (in response to Ann Bens)

Thank you. My knowledge of how to do this is to go into the Motion option and scale either height or width (stretching), or to constrain them (enlarging but cutting off). Is this the only way to do this—and is there a way to automate this so that all clips imported (which all suffer the same problem) be imported at this scaled setting? Or does it need to be applied to every clip after it's imported? Thanks again.

Also: Does the square/nonsquare pixels mean that when the clip gets imported it is squished horizontally slightly—and that to stretch it out slightly once it's in Premiere means to "restore" it to its original size? Or am I wrong about this.

It seems, surprisingly, that the width stretching has the better results (stretching from 100% to 105% removes the black bars and doesn't look particularly silly/stretched); the constrained enlarging crops more visual information and seems more noticably degraded in the quality.
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7. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

A.T. Romano Jun 17, 2013 5:46 PM (in response to viewfromnowhere)

viewfromnowhere

As a courtesy to SG and with the thought that he would be returning to your thread shortly, I did not offer any how to input on the matter.

Since your questions seem to be pressing at this time, I would offer the following.

You can give a slight scale up to the first video on the Timeline.

For now I am assuming that you are using Premiere Elements 11 Windows (you do need to give that information for version specific details)
Right click your first video clip on the Timeline Expert view, select Copy.
Then hold down the Shift key of the computer main keyboard as you click on each of the remaining clips to select/hightlight them altogether.
Then click anywhere in the highlight and select Paste Effects and Adjustments.

All should be scaled to the same %. You can check under Applied Effect/Motion Panel expanded/Scale (note with a check mark next to Constrain Proportions, Width and Height are scaled together; with no check mark next to Constrain Proportions, width and height can be scaled separately.)

ATR
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8. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

Steve Grisetti Jun 17, 2013 5:50 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)

Yep. I agree with ATR.

Your footage is only 320x240 -- so you're rezzing it up to even fit a 720x480 video frame and even then it's not an exact fit. But increasing the scale just a bit will file the frame with your video, although you'll lose a couple of pixels from the top and bottom of the picture.

Also, because you're starting with such low resolution footage, you should be prepared for the fact that your final output isn't going to look crystal clear. It's going to look a bit fuzzy as a DVD.
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9. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

viewfromnowhere Jun 17, 2013 6:03 PM (in response to A.T. Romano)

Thank you both for your assistance, this has been very helpful for me. Now to hope archive.org keeps improving their resolution :-)
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10. Re: 4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

Steve Grisetti Jun 18, 2013 5:16 AM (in response to viewfromnowhere)

Well, in their defense, it IS an archive site. It's not meant as a stock photo site for providing high-quality, editable video.
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4:3 footage has black bars even with 4:3 project setting--can they be removed?

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