11 Replies Latest reply on Jun 21, 2013 7:12 AM by Peter Spier

    Section starts

    Gerben Wierda Level 1

      I am returning to working in InDesign for my book project after almost a year. Now, I am rusty. I can't remember many things I knew when I was working on it last October. One of the things I can't remember is the thing about section starts. In the example below, there is the little black triangle at page 100 and at page 110. Bot are starts of sections of the book. I have inserted spreads 108-109 and 112-113 and now I want that same 'start' on page 108 as I am starting a new (extra)  'chapter' of the book there.

       

      Screen Shot 2013-06-20 at 20 June 16.50.29.png

      Wen I right-click page 108 and select the 'Numbering & Section' options and say it is a  new section, I get this warning:

       

      Screen Shot 2013-06-20 at 20 June 16.56.04.png

      And I am at a loss what to do now.

       

      Can someone help me rememberhow this worked or point me to the 'refresher info' I obviously need?

        • 1. Re: Section starts
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          That means you've got the same "logical" page number assigned more than once (not uncommon when restrting numbering) and you've used the same numbering style in both sections. Typically htis is handled by changing the numbering style (i.e. you use small roman numberals for front matter and arabic numbers for body).

           

          What's the reason for wanting to start a new section? The  things you can do in the numbering and sections dialog that might be useful are to change the page number for the start of the section to something other than the next consecutive number from the preceeding page or to add a section marker or prefix that will get picked up in a header or footer on a master page. A new chapter, in and of itself, does not require a new section if the numbering is continuous from the previous chapter.

          • 2. Re: Section starts
            TᴀW Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            (If you want your footnotes to restart numbering from 1 for each

            chapter, you also need to start a new section (or even better, a new

            story).)

            • 3. Re: Section starts
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Good point. I seldom work with footnotes. But one can start a new section and continue numbering fromthe previous section, so I wouldn't expect to see that warning unless it's from a previous restart of numbering that wasn't addressed at the time.

               

              I second the notion of each chapter being its own story. I wouldn't work any other way.

              • 4. Re: Section starts
                Gerben Wierda Level 1

                Hello Peter,

                 

                I don't recall why I had to use these section starts (as you might remember I had quite a few problems when I started out with my layout). I think I have these because when I am writing I want extra pages to be added at the end of the section when I am running out of space.

                 

                So I can safely ignore this warning?

                • 5. Re: Section starts
                  Gerben Wierda Level 1

                  I wanted automatic numbering without a restart of numbers, so I was surprised by this warning.

                  • 6. Re: Section starts
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    Gerben Wierda wrote:

                     

                    I think I have these because when I am writing I want extra pages to be added at the end of the section when I am running out of space.

                     

                    So I can safely ignore this warning?

                    Pages don't get added automatically to the end of a section unless you have Smart Text Reflow eanbled and specify to add pages at the end of the section, so you should check that in the prefs. That said, if you follow Ariel's (and my) advice and make each cahpter a separate story, you'd want Smart Text Reflow to add pages a the end of the story, not the section, and adding new sections would now be irrelevant, even, I think, for restarting footnotes (I'm pretty sure they always restart for every story).

                     

                    As far as ignoring the warning, I wouldn't. You need to find out where the numbers are repeated. The most likely things I can think of are either you restarted the numbering for the second section in the book at 1 to make you page1 fall on the first page of chapter one, and didn't change the number style for the first section at the very beginning, or you started a section to have the Smart Text Reflow do its thing correctly, but instead of leaving the start numbering on automatic you assigned a start number in one of ht sections, and the added pages from editing ran into and maybe beyond that page number.

                    • 7. Re: Section starts
                      Gerben Wierda Level 1

                      Am I maybe just confusing Section and Story? Maybe what I want is just making sure a new story starts at the start of the chapter? What does the little triangle mean: start of section or start of story?

                       

                      I am using Smart Text Reflow, add at End of Section, Limit to Primary Text Frames.

                      • 8. Re: Section starts
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        The triangle means the start of a section. Starting a section and strarting a story are not the same, but are not mutually exclusive, either. They have no real relationship to one another. A section can contin multiple stories, and a story thread can span multiple sections.

                         

                        A story can be described as a single text frame with no overset or threaded text, or set of threaded text frames that is not connected to any other set of threaded frames (in other words a self-contained block of text that has a start and an end).

                        • 9. Re: Section starts
                          Gerben Wierda Level 1

                          Now I am back to completely confused. All my triangles are section starts, all are Automatic Numbering. Page numbers just go on in the document. Nowhere I can find the same page number, it starts at 1 and goes on and on. No restarts whatsoever. So why do I get the warning?

                          • 10. Re: Section starts
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            I guess I'd have to see the file itself to find it. I think you've sent me something before. Do you still have the dropbox link?

                            • 11. Re: Section starts
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              OK, I've got your file, and I'm not seeing that warning pop up when I try to add a section. Are you sure you haven't checked the radio button to "start numbering at"? I also see no repeated numbers anywhere.

                               

                              As far as maintaining spreads (your other question inthe email with the file), I don't use smart text reflow, so I'm kind of guessing here, but I don't think your STR settings are correct. You don't seem to be using Primary Text frames on the master page, but you've limited adding pages to primary text frames. There's also a check box to preserve exisiting spreads, so I think maybe you want to change your settings to look like this:

                              STR settings.png

                               

                              I have to say, though, that I had no success getting STR to work at all in the file.