13 Replies Latest reply on Feb 7, 2014 4:36 PM by olavnorrud

    Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.

    MD Optofonik Level 1

      I've been viewing a tutorial series in addition to some random one's on the web, mostly covering functionality, but what isn't clear to me (yet) has to do with asset management and workflow. I know enough to understand that these two areas are the most important aspects of the whole process; without organized asset management and an orderly, systematized, hierarchical approach to accomplishing tasks the creative side of things will suffer dramatically at the worst time.

       

      Regarding asset management, I have three separate drives for for audio, video, and stills. All the files reside in their original locations except for video files that I originally had stored on my stills drive. These video files were copied to my video drive into the Adobe Folder> Premiere Projects Folder> Project Name Folder. In addition, I have a folder on the video drive called "Raw Footage" that I'm using for random footage unrelated to any project; sort of a personal stock footage resource.

       

      As a practice project for the tutorial series I'm using assets from a 45 day Rail Pass tour I took a few years ago. Assets include SDDV. m2ts, and mov, files with different sample rates, in addition to jpg and psd files.

       

       

       

      Where would the following programs come into play and at what point in the workflow does the transition from one to the other begin and/or overlap?

       

      Bridge

      Prelude

      Premiere

      Encore

       

      Where does Bridge come into play and when?

       

      There are folders with m2ts files on my stills drive that I've copied and pasted to my video drive. Should I have used Prelude to ingest and "Transfer Clips To Destination" ("destination" being my video drive)? Should I have transcoded to a less resource hungry format and, if so, does Prelude create an EDL that can be used to conform the final edit replacing the low rex clips files the the original higher rez files?

       

      I know I have to capture SDDV as DV (not HDV) with Premiere but what else do I need to know about such capture? As far as actual editing goes the tutorials are covering a lot of that.

       

      Eventually I'll use Encore to author a proper DVD that is compatible with every DVD or Blu-ray player. Right?

       

      I guess the question could be, "What is yout multi asset workflow?"

       

      I feel like such a noob.

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

          I use bridge instead of Windows Explorer to see what my files are, move them around, etc. I generally drag and drop from Bridge into Premiere Pro.

           

          I suppose Prelude could come in handy but I have not used it yet and as I understand it, ingesting subclips requires transcoding - so no thank you.

           

          Capture is a word used to designate transfering video from a camera to the PC over a firewire connection. Anything else is merely importing video files. If you import SDDV files (if I understand what those actually are - like the ones used in mashups?) then just drop them on the ?New Item" button to create the perfect sequence for that footage. If you are combining it with other footage that is larger frame, then just bring the opther footage into a sequence designed for SDDV and scale it appropriately.

          • 2. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
            MD Optofonik Level 1

            SDDV - standard definition digital video. I'll try using Bridge instead of Explorer for awhile and see how that feels. Thanks for the insight.

            • 3. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
              buraihan Level 1

              I have played with Prelude only briefly, but my impression of it was that it isn't really a Final Product yet. It still feels more like a sketch of an idea. The main things that annoyed me were:

               

              1. Ingest. Ingesting files from a DSLR flash card change the date of the files from the time they were recorded to the time they were "Ingested". Even a straight up file copy in Explorer isn't that stupid.

               

              2. Logging. You can't sort the thumbnail list of files. You can't filter by metadata (filter by "Scene" or Shot Number" or "Good" etc.), so working with lots of files is frustrating to say the least.

               

              3. Metadata. There are too many metadata fields viewable by default. I turned a bunch off and saved a preset in Premiere, but that preset didn't show up in Prelude. Even though they are the same "Metadata, powered by XMP" windows with all the same fields.

               

              All in all, Adobe has excellent Metadata support (XMP puts the data in your source files where possible, or sidecar files) but hopeless interfaces for actually using any of it. Bridge and Lightroom are exceptions. To answer your question, I would do basic tagging and file management in Bridge, get the files into Premiere and then use good old standard "Bins" to organize the footage for editing inside a project.

              • 4. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                MD Optofonik Level 1

                1. Ingest. Ingesting files from a DSLR flash card change the date of the files from the time they were recorded to the time they were "Ingested". Even a straight up file copy in Explorer isn't that stupid.

                Wow, thanks for pointing this out. My shots took place over 90 days during a tour of the US on a Rail Pass. I've been using file dates and my original itinerary to correlate where the shot was taken.For example, any clips from December 12, 2009 6:40 PM to December 13, 2009 1:10 PM are from the Capitol Limited traveling from Chicago to Washington DC.

                 

                I just looked at the transcoded files from Media Encoder and it's doing the same thing. How can an Adobe engineer look at something like this and determine it's okay? Has anyone at Adobe edited anything more than their kid's birthday parties?

                 

                 

                3. Metadata. There are too many metadata fields viewable by default. I turned a bunch off and saved a preset in Premiere, but that preset didn't show up in Prelude. Even though they are the same "Metadata, powered by XMP" windows with all the same fields.

                Is using the metadata a workaround for the re-timestamped files? Is the original date inside the metadata?

                 

                EDIT

                Never mind. I just opened a transcoded file in Premiere and, sure enough, nothing in the file information to indicate the original capture date. Why?

                • 5. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                  al_bergstein Level 1

                  Adobes metadata mgmt is pathetic. I long for working with the old fcp, where i could at least export to excel or FM Pro. Am i mistaken?

                  • 6. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                    michaelgoshey Adobe Employee

                    Hi Steven -

                     

                    Wanted to clarify something you said about Prelude. You do not need to transcode for ingest using Prelude. Prelude provides many options during ingest. Prelude focuses on transferring assets from your camera onto your system. You *CAN* transcode if you wish, but do not have to. You can have multiple destinations during your ingest. You can transfer your originals to your system in the first destination and then if you need to generate proxies or other format you can create a second destination and select transcode options independently from your primary raw ingest.

                     

                    Hope this clears that up. If you have other questions please let me know - or post to the Prelude forum for additional help.

                     

                    Regards,

                    Michael

                    • 7. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                      Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                      Michael,

                       

                      Well, hmm. According to Jeff in the video below, subclips require transcoding.

                       

                      Was he wrong? Check out the comment he makes at 1:40

                       

                      http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-pro-cc/organize-clips-subclips-and-sequences-in-p relude/

                       

                      If I could ingest using Prelude (which I may start doing anyway) and get subclips without transcoding, that would be fantastic. But unless he was mistaken, i will have to settle for storing huge video clips. So, just like it has always been, just buy bigger and bigger hard drives.

                       

                      I can understand why Adobe might have to limit this particular magic to just a few codecs, but, nonetheless, it would be a major achievement. Just think. I shoot 30 minutes of video and I want to save 30 seconds. Having a way to do that would be a be cost savings.

                       

                      Perhaps Prelude has merits, and I will get around to checking them out. But in the meantime, I can rename clips in Bridge and drag them over to Premiere Pro.

                      • 8. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                        michaelgoshey Adobe Employee

                        Hi Steve -

                         

                        I must have misread your post about clip vs sub clip.  If you use partial ingest in our Ingest Dialog to bring in just a portion of a clip then yes, it does need to run through Adobe Media Encoder on the way in. Sorry for any confusion there.

                         

                        If we did have a workflow where you could perform a partial ingest of a clip without transcoding – what would you think it would look like? Rewrapping perhaps? Would you be OK if the IN and OUT Points you set were not 100% honored? We may need to move out to the next GOP boundary in order to do a reverse smart-render or similar workflow. Would that be acceptable to you?

                         

                        Also – which formats are you currently using?

                         

                        Thanks -

                        Michael

                        • 9. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                          Michael,

                           

                          I thought that might be the case. Sigh!

                           

                          Well, as far as I can tell, if I were you, I would offer it with an alI I-Frame option first. That would probably be the easiest to implement cleanly. Those who can shoot that way would probably start shooting that way. Me included.

                           

                          Then, take the AVCHD from a few of the most popular cameras, Canon, Nikon and of course, the Panasonic DMC-GH3 (my camera) and whatever video cameras are popular right now. Back up to the beginning of the long GOP and finish at the end of the long GOP. There is no need to get too specific with frames for subclips. After all, anyone who does not leave handles on their subclips while ingesting gets what they deserve anyway. In fact, there should be an option to always add one second of handles to every subclip. Personally I would leave that on as a default.

                           

                          As for me, I recently posted a few videos using different codecs for people to download to test them. The links can be found in this forum post along with a short discussion: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1239519?tstart=0

                           

                          I usually use 50Mb/s 60p using the MOV format, but if I was to shoot anything serious, I would probably shoot 72Mb/s 24p. Keep in mind, that if Adobe made it possible to ingest subclips without transcoding,I would change what I shot to all I-Frame for almost everything, either at 30p or 24p. And if you did it for my 60fps MOV files, I would be ecstatic.

                           

                          I don't shoot AVCHD but I suppose that so many people do that the moment you gave the feature to all I-Frame shooters, there would be a huge clamor for AVCHD.

                           

                          In my opinion, this could be a major game changer and everyone who could would start using Prelude without a second thought. Like photographers are flocking to Lightroom 5, this would be the videographers Lightroom. Reelroom? Naw. Prelude is a good enough name.

                          • 10. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                            olavnorrud

                            This thread is getting old, but I'd like to point out that buraihan's findings of file date alterations still hold with the current Prelude CC v2.2.0.

                            I figured it couldn't hurt trying this product from the Creative Cloud, but proved myself wrong when stripping valuable metadata.

                             

                            -olav

                            • 11. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                              R Neil Haugen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Olav,

                               

                              Tak skal du har! You got me looking back into Prelude, though I don't actually find the datum you posted akkurat in my case at least.

                               

                              Saw the comment that Prelude changes the date from the day it was shot to the day it was ingested. Had to check it out.

                               

                              Very interesting. The project folder in Prelude shows an ingestion date of today's date, with the (copied!) file showing a "created date" of the original time of creation. Moving that onto the timeline in Prelude, I now have a metadata showing "Created" of last August (correct), and "Ingested" as of today ... also correct.

                               

                              Sent this over to Premier Pro ... and checking metadata over there, it also shows the correct fields/data: "Created" date is last August, "Modified" date is today.

                               

                              Over in Window's "explorer" of file manager, it shows a "Created" time of today's date, which is the same as the "ingestion" field shows in Prelude, and a "Modified" date that is the actual time of creation.

                               

                              Huh. Windows just gets those fields kinda bass-akwards , I think. Weird.

                               

                              Neil

                              • 12. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                                olavnorrud Level 1

                                Neil,

                                Thanks for trying this.

                                I looked some more and it's not so bad after all.

                                 

                                Some more details: Windows 8.1, MP4 files from GoPro Hero3.

                                After "ingestion" and some edits, the properties/details/metadata available from the files (using Windows Explorer):

                                "Created date" shows the date-time when I invoked the Ingest function.

                                "Modified date" shows the date-time when I last invoked some edit function (added a few comments to each clip).

                                "Accessed date" equals current (incorrect) "Created date".

                                 

                                Thing is, while the original "Date created" values appears to be totally gone from the files, they actually "reappear" in the metadata of Premiere Pro (after choosing "Send to..").

                                So that's good. But I still strongly dislike Prelude messing up the file dates, for the sake of alternate workflows. Lightroom, which is a great product, does all right when importing clips. So does PowerDirector, which I kind of depend on until I learn Premiere a little better.

                                 

                                Came to think of one thing that could explain our differing results. I had Prelude add some simple metadata (camera, location) during ingest. Likewise, can't see these data from Windows Explorer (file properties), but they show up in Premiere. Anyway, Prelude should not have touched the Created Date. This is a programming issue, not a Windows issue.

                                 

                                Anyway, no big problem, I'll just stay away from Prelude for now.

                                And I guess I'll find the steeper learning curve of Premiere worth the switch

                                • 13. Re: Bridge/Prelude/Premiere/Encore, Arrrgh! Workflow/Asset Managment overload! Help.
                                  olavnorrud Level 1

                                  Just waned to add to my own post, that Prelude's owerwritng of clip/file-date was not such a big problem after all.

                                  Actually, I felt comfortable with Premiere almost immediately, got to do all I neded to with great control, so I could leave PowerDirector behind right away!

                                   

                                  Still, theres no point in altering dates of the original clips, so I'd prefer that Adobe had fixed Prelude.

                                  For now I will consider skipping it in the workflow.

                                   

                                  Cheers,

                                  Olav