24 Replies Latest reply on Oct 5, 2017 3:22 AM by neil wilkes

    Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6

    Cavemandude Level 1

      So I just made a video with 30 chapter markers at distinct cuts in the timeline using Premiere CC and exported that to an MPEG-2 video as I would in CS6. After importing the MPEG-2 file into Encore CS6 and making a New Timeline the Chapter Markers do show up but they are now all 3-15 frames early per chapter which also means none of the chapter thumbnails are going to be accurate. It's easy to check this with both programs just compare the timecode number at each chapter point in the timeline of Premiere CC then Encore CS6.

       

      Also noticed that the Add Chapter Marker tool that was in the Premiere CS6 timeline is missing in CC, just the Add Marker tool is there now. Couldn't find a way to add the Add Chapter Marker tool to the timeline group of tools.

        • 1. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          This is pretty normal behavior.  The DVD specification only allows chapter points on I-frames, which are normally created 2 per second - every 15 frames for 30i, every 12 frames for 24p.  You'll have to manually adjust those that are now out of position in Encore.

           

          I was disappointed to see the Chapter Marker button gone, too.  Adobe has added an extra step to the process, forcing us to create a sequence marker first, and then open that dialog to manually change it into a chapter marker.  But...it's pretty normal to name chapters in PP anyway, which means we're opening that dialog as standard practice.

           

          Still, I'm not fond of extra steps being added without any new functionality or quality in the bargain.  The best we can probably do is ask Adobe to add that Icon back.

           

          https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

          • 2. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
            Cavemandude Level 1

            I've done many projects in Premiere CS6 and Encore CS6 and the chapter points are dead-on accurate in Encore CS6 when exporting an MPEG2 file from Premiere CS6 with chapter points and importing that in Encore CS6. I would have noticed something like that right away and accepted it a long time ago if was not accurate in CS6. I customize each thumbnail in Encore using the Next Chapter button to cue each chapter point and I noticed it right away that the chapter points were not accurate this time because the thumbnail pics didn't even match the video for each chapter but when using Premiere CS6 to create the MPEG2 file it did match. All I was doing in Encore was moving the thumbnail pic up a little bit so it wasn't on the first frame.

            • 3. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
              Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              This is pretty normal behavior.  The DVD specification only allows chapter points on I-frames, which are normally created 2 per second - every 15 frames for 30i, every 12 frames for 24p.  You'll have to manually adjust those that are now out of position in Encore.

              As long as the markers are added before exporting to mpeg, Premiere/AME "should" create I frames at the selected chapter points. This would be a change from CS6. I have one thought I pose to the caveman...

               

              Edit: I agree re the marker button. The "how to" video makes it clear that all markers should be named cause you'll get blanks when you play on various devices that would otherwise display your chapter name. I've got no complaint about that. BUT one of those feature requests for Encore that are now moot (but still relevant to the parallel in PR) is the ability to import and export chapter times/names.

              • 4. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                It makes no sense to me that this is not working. But I wonder what happens when source files are I frame type media. I have not installed CC even though Adobe keeps telling me I have a free membership! Are you using AVCHD or something that has similar structure? Can you test this with some "old" SD AVI file? I can test with CS6, but not at the moment.

                • 5. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                  Cavemandude Level 1

                  Source files are DV AVI so no need for me to check it again with CC here. I'm going to put the same files in CS6, add chapter points, export an MPEG2 and import into Encore CS6 to check it.

                  • 6. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                    Cavemandude Level 1

                    So just as I expected dead-on 0 frame accurate using Premiere CS6 to export the MPEG2 file with chapter points. One thing I noticed is that Premiere CS6 creates 3 files when exporting an MPEG2 video only file and Premiere CC only creates 2 files. This project had no audio so no audio files are created just video.

                     

                    Premiere CS6 MPEG2 files created after export:

                     

                    filename.m2v

                    filename.m2v.xmpses

                    filename.xmp

                     

                    Premiere CC MPEG2 files created after export:

                     

                    filename.m2v

                    filename.xmp

                     

                    So what does that xmpses file do?

                    • 7. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                      Cavemandude Level 1

                      So I took it a step further and imported one of my Premiere CS6 projects into Premiere CC. I already exported an MPEG2 file from the CS6 project and made a DVD and just checked the chapter points in Encore again and they were frame accurate. Exported an MPEG2 from Premiere CC, imported the MPEG2 file into Encore CS6 and the chapter points were not accurate.

                      • 8. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        The .xmpses file contains the chapter information, at least for CS6 and earlier.  You can test this by removing that file before importing into Encore.  You won't get any chapters.

                         

                        Not sure where Adobe is putting chapter data for CC, but it must be somewhere because the chapters are there.

                         

                        So I ran two tests, one from CS6 and one from CC7.  In both cases I added three chapter marks, two where I knew there would not be an I-frame in the exported .m2v, and one where there would be.  Both exports came into Encore with the chapter makers right where I put them, which surprises me because there were no I-frames at two of those points and Encore did not 'legalize' them as I'm accustomed to with my production machine.  (Ran this test on my personal machine.)  I could move the markers off those points, but could not put them back because, like I said, the DVD spec only allows them on I-frames.

                         

                        I did not burn to test whether or not Encore would move the chapters that weren't on I-frames.  I'd be confused if it didn't, though.

                        • 9. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                          Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          two where I knew there would not be an I-frame in the exported .m2v, and one where there would be.

                          What source material? SD DV or what? How did you know where they would be? (I assume based on a continuous 12/3 gop.) As I said, and I think confirmed by caveman's CS6 test, PR "should" create the mpeg file with I frames at the chapter points.

                          • 10. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                            Cavemandude Level 1

                            Well you may have gotten lucky since 10% of the 30 chapter points in the video I tested were accurate which left 27 that were positioned too early in the previous chapter's video. The 2nd one I tested had just one 1 additional chapter point, besides the default 1st one, and that was 3 frames early in Encore.

                             

                            You can't have it both ways, so are you now taking back what you stated in your earlier post about not being able to have frame accurate chapter points because of I-frames? I've done enough testing with repeatable results to know it works in CS6 and doesn't work in CC.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                              Cavemandude Level 1

                              Jim Simon wrote:

                               

                              The .xmpses file contains the chapter information, at least for CS6 and earlier.  You can test this by removing that file before importing into Encore.  You won't get any chapters.

                               

                               

                              Make that "Frame Accurate" chapter information since CC doesn't create one.

                              • 12. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                Make that "Frame Accurate" chapter information since CC doesn't create one.

                                Ha, ha! It does appear possible. Caveman, would you please send me the xmp from CC and the xmp and xmpses from CS6 for the same file? It will be easier than me explaining what I am looking for - since I don't know! Both types of files include chapter information.

                                 

                                If you don't have a public option for upload, I'll send you an email address. They are generally small files.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                  My source was AVCHD 24p.  The I-frames end up at 12 and 24, so I put in two chapters that would not be there, and indeed Encore shows there to be no I-frames where those chapters are.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    are you now taking back what you stated in your earlier post about not being able to have frame accurate chapter points because of I-frames?

                                     

                                    I am getting confused.  My production machine as been 'legalizing' the chapter points for years, moving them to I-frames.  I don't know why that didn't happen on my personal rig I used for testing.

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                      David Gardner

                                      I have just been experiencing this same problem. Pr CC doesn't seem to send information forcing chapter markers to be I-frames in Enc. (or Enc. is not respecting them) I experienced this same problem with Pr CS6 when using dynamic link from Pr to Enc and got around it by exporting to .m2v files first. Now Pr CC to Enc doesn't seem to respect even that workflow.

                                       

                                      Here's the discussion link for that previous conversation.

                                       

                                      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1176436

                                       

                                      We ended with a strange but verified conclusion that this chapter marker shifting to regenerated GOP boundaries in Enc possibly only happened on the Mac version of Enc. So I was just wondering if you are using a Mac.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                                        I am not.  Windows 7 for the production machine that legalized them, and Windows 8 for my personal rig that did not.

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                          Cavemandude Level 1

                                          It's a repeatable problem in CC, just finished a large 5-DVD project last week with 100's of inaccurate chapter points in Premiere CC, so I went back to using CS6 for all my projects to get frame accurate chapter points when exporting MPEG-2 files from Premiere.

                                           

                                          It has been verified by an Adobe employee that "we did change a few things in Chapter Markers in CC and its obviously had an effect" and they will look into it.

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                            Stan Jones Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            It has been verified by an Adobe employee that "we did change a few things in Chapter Markers in CC and its obviously had an effect" and they will look into it.

                                            I'd still be willing to look at any differences in the XMP files, as I offered in post 12.

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                              Cavemandude Level 1

                                              Initial tests show that the chapter markers made in the latest version (7.1) of Premiere Pro CC are now frame accurate when exporting an MPEG-2 file and then importing that file into Encore CS6.

                                              • 21. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                                Cavemandude Level 1

                                                Scratch that, same problem still not accurate.when using a DV widescreen sequence which is what I've been using in CS6 which is frame accurate.

                                                 

                                                The test I did today with only 3 chapters that was accurate in CC 7.1 was an HD 24p sequence and exporting to an MPEG-2 file then Encore.

                                                 

                                                The DV preview files did get recognized in GPU mode though when exporting using the Preview Files.

                                                • 22. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                                  Gochos The Greek

                                                  Has anyone found a fix for this? It is very frustrating. I cannot seem to move the chapter markers in encore either.

                                                  • 23. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                                    David Gardner Level 1

                                                    I don't have a fix but I can confirm that I have been experiencing the same problem with the workflow from Pr CC to Encore not respecting chapter marker positions. The marker positions seem to default to the GOP boundaries once they arrive in Encore when in fact an I frame should be forced where there is a chapter marker. My fallback is to keep using Pr CS6. I'd like to move to Pr CC for this kind of work especially to take advantage of the new feature where markers respect ripple edits (which they do not in Pr CS6) but I've gotta have my chapter marker positions stay put through the workflow. I'd love to see a fix for this.

                                                    • 24. Re: Premiere CC Chapter markers not frame accurate in Encore CS6
                                                      neil wilkes Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      https://forums.adobe.com/people/Gochos+The+Greek  wrote

                                                       

                                                      Has anyone found a fix for this? It is very frustrating. I cannot seem to move the chapter markers in encore either.

                                                      The problem seems to be with AVCHD 24p source files as MPEG-2DVD encodes, yes?

                                                      Please will you correct or answer the following assumptions?

                                                      1 - successful projects are at 24p

                                                      2 - fails are 29.97 interlaced?

                                                      How is your Encore project set up - if it is set to NTSC, is it looking for footage at 24p or 29.97i? In other words are you setting up a genuine 24p disc or a 29.97interlaced one? If the latter from 24p source files then how are you changing the frame rate and are you adding Chapter Markers or sequence markers?

                                                      Another thing to bear in mind is that even when your Premiere Pro CC sequence is set to 23.976 fps, all markers once exported are 24p and will *not* be the same as they were in the Premiere sequence.