1 2 Previous Next 63 Replies Latest reply on Nov 22, 2016 5:25 PM by davidb75937557

    Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC

    cscooper2013 Level 2

      I load a clip into the Source panel.  I set in and out points and then CTRL + U to create a subclip.  I have "Restrict Trim to subclip boundaries" turned off.  (Thank you Adobe, I've been waiting for "soft" subclips forEVER!)  The new subclip appears in my Project panel with the correct name and duration (as well as a white audio icon to indicate that it has not yet been used in my project).  Now, I drag that subclip into my sequence.  But the entire clip (a 5 minute interview), from which the subclip was derived, is loaded onto the timeline.

       

      This has been working correctly for the last hour, and now it has stopped working.  It appears that for the moment, subclipping is dead to me. 

       

      Help?!

        • 1. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
          jstrawn Adobe Employee

          I just repro'd the same behavior on mac 10.8.4. I'll look into it. Thanks.

          • 2. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
            cscooper2013 Level 2

            Also, perhaps it's helpful; perhaps not:  This issue is occuring with a clip that I Merged earlier (manually sync'd — since "Synchronize" thus far, for me, also does not work at all).

             

            Since the new "Synchronize" and "Merge" (using Audio to sync the merged clip) commands do not work for me—that is they don't actually synchronize even the most similar audio/video waveforms).  My workflow is this: 

             

            I take an AVCHD interview clip (5 minutes from Canon VIXIA HF G20 camcorder) and manually lined it up with it's coresponding audio recorder file (320k MP3 file—I have my reasons) on my "Interviews to be Merged" Sequence.  Once the video and audio are lined up, I "Merge Clips...".  Then (and I wish it wasn't a two-step process) I find the newly merged clip in my Project panel and "Modify > Audio Channels".  I reduce the clip down to Mono with 1 Channel assigning the track with the MP3 as the only active audio.  Now I'm ready to edit.  I double click the newly minted clip, complete with great audio, and it loads into the Source monitor.  Using the J, K, L keys, I find and mark my In and Out points.  Then I CTRL + U to "Make Subclip".

             

            I've just noticed (hence this update) that the clip I that was working earlier is a clip (from same camera) that is using original, on-camera shotgun mic, instead of a lav, which means I did not put it through the "Merge Clips..." and "Modify > Audio Channels" process before attempting to create subclips from it.

             

            When you were able to repro the issue, what type of clip did you happen to be using?  Merged?  Modified channels?  Curious.

            • 3. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
              jstrawn Adobe Employee

              Actually the repro turned out to be usr error in my case. I dragged the sourc clip in to compare to the subclip, forgetting that it still shared the same in/out points at that point. I tired it on additional systems and was unable to repro your steps. I triesdi ti wiht just standard mov clip, nothing that had been merged or modified. If you would like to send me a test clip, I can try the steps again.

              • 5. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                thepossibility Level 1

                I can't get subclips to work on merged clips.

                 

                1. Brand new project

                2. Import video AVCHD

                3. Import mono WAV audio from lav mic

                4. Create sequence and manually sync clip - (note that video is a subset of audio clip)

                5. Merge clips

                6. Open new (merged) clip in source

                7. Make a subclip

                8. Open subclip

                 

                The subclip is time shifted from where it was set, to a seemingly random offset.

                 

                FYI brand new iMac, i5, GTX 675MX, Premiere Pro CC, everything with latest updates.

                 

                PS Occasionally when I am trying to do this, it just completely crashes with this error:

                [/sirreel64/releases/2013.02/shared/adobe/MediaCore/Backend/Make/Mac/../../Src/Clip/AudioC lip.cpp-959]

                 

                At this rate, I'll be downgrading to CS6 tomorrow.

                • 6. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                  Mark Mapes Adobe Employee

                  I succeeded in creating a subclip from a merged clip, and the subclip starts at the correct frame. Please provide more specifics about how you merged--what did you use as the sync point? If you didn't use the In Point as the sync point, then what's the offset between the start of the video and the audio, and does that correspond directly to the offset in the subclip?

                   

                  I too hit a crash while testing this, but at a different place (InsertEdit4PointInfo.cpp-74). I've taken note of both crashes and will write them up.

                  • 7. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                    thepossibility Level 1

                    Thanks for that, Mark.

                     

                    I've done a little more testing, and the problem seems to be related to merged clips where (for me) the audio is longer than the video.

                    Here's a screenshot of some testing I did:

                    'Screen Shot.png

                    Let me talk you through the project browser:

                    - At the top there are the source video and audio

                    - I then made bins for a trimmed sequence version and an untrimmed sequence (what I mean by trimmed is that the audio was chopped down to the same duration as the video, after syncing)

                    - I did the syncing on both manually. For the untrimmed clip, the audio leads the video by 1:29:04.

                    - I then made merges of both

                    - I then made subclips of both

                     

                    Remarks:

                    1) The trimmed versions seem to work fine, though I haven't done serious testing. At least the media start and end make sense.

                     

                    2) The untrimmed merge "Merge (untrimmed)" is showing a Media Start of 23:57:04:10, which is just wrong. First of all this is a 'negative' time number (C++ signed/unsigned int math coding error?), secondly, it doesn't seem to match anything because it is an offset of -2:55:14, when the video offset is +1:29:04.

                     

                    3) When I open "Untrimmed.Subclip001" (as shown in the Source window) it shows a start time of "23:57:04:10" (the very beginning of the "Merge (untrimmed)" clip) instead of "23:58:33:14" which is where I'd set the in point for the subclip (and is shown in the Media Start column). What plays back is, indeed, the very beginning of the untrimmed clip. This is also the case with "Untrimmed.Subclip002" which had an In point set at 6:00:00.

                     

                    4) The Subclip Start times shown are totally broken. I really have no idea where it is getting those numbers from. On the other hand, the End times seem to be ok (if you again ignore the fact that I have an end time of "23+ hours" on a clip that is 1 hour long.

                     

                    5) The Audio In and Out Points shown don't make any sense to me. They're all just a little bit off the other numbers that are shown.

                     

                    Lastly, the source video is AVCHD 1080p24 from a Panasonic GH2 and the audio is 48kHz 24-bit mono from a Zoom H4n

                     

                    I hope this helps with your diagnosis.

                    Looking forward to your feedback.

                    • 8. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                      Mark Mapes Adobe Employee

                      Thanks, that's great info. I'll investigate next week upon returning from the company shutdown.

                      • 9. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        the source video is AVCHD 1080p24 from a Panasonic GH2 and the audio is 48kHz 24-bit mono from a Zoom H4n

                         

                        I actually completed a project using that exact media recently, so I opened it up and made a subclip from the Merged clip and sure enough, dragging that to the sequence brought the entire clip, not just the subclip.

                         

                        So I did it again, this time checking the "Restrict" box, and guess what...the shorter subclip came over.  And I was able to drag beyond the initially set bounds, so even with that box checked, it is still a 'soft' subclip in the sequence.

                         

                        Either I don't understand that checkbox, or it ain't working right.

                        • 10. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                          Mark Mapes Adobe Employee

                          I reproed exactly as reported, including the elements that Jim added. Bug report has been logged.

                          • 11. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                            cscooper2013 Level 2

                            Mark, it occurs to me that at a deeper level, the cause of this bug may be the same root cause as the massive multicam bug (or vice versa).  Think about it.  In both cases we're dealing with footage that is given a command to essentially use only a part of a clip, but then the reference is set to the beginning of the clip, rather than the correct in-point.  No problems are manifested with CTRL+K or the Razor (C) tool.  What object classes or methods are common to both multicam and sub-clips creation, but are NOT called upon for the CTRL+K or Razor actions?

                             

                            #9 from Jim Simon seems to further the case.  When he sets a "hard" subclip, it works, just as it did in CS6.  But when he sets a "soft" subclip (like I experienced), the references is not set correctly. 

                             

                            My thinking is that, if you fix one of these issues (multi-cam or soft subclips), at the right point in the code, you'll have fixed BOTH issues.  Just a guess.

                            • 12. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              When he sets a "hard" subclip, it works, just as it did in CS6.

                               

                              Actually, no.  When I set a hard subclip by checking the Restrict box, it actually creates a properly functioning soft subclip, which hasn't existed in Premiere Pro since 1.5.  (It got 'broken' in CS2, when they were changed to hard subclips only.)

                               

                              I can't imaging why anyone would want a hard subclip, so I'm happy to just check that box and start using subclips again. 

                              • 13. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                cscooper2013 Level 2

                                Oh, good to know.  So the proper functioning of this feature is broken, but in it's failure, we get soft subclips anyway?  That's great!  Just weird.  I can live with that.  I agree, I never plan on using hard clips again.  I've been wishing for soft subclips ever since... well, subclips.

                                • 14. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                  Mark Mapes Adobe Employee

                                  To be clear, this bug is limited to subclips created from merged clips--specifically merged clips where the audio starts before the video. As far as I'm aware--and I worked extensively on subclips last cycle--soft subclips from other sources are functioning as expected.

                                   

                                  @cscooper: you're right that there are similarities between this bug and the multicam bug in that both involve PPRO getting confused about reference points in the content. But I doubt they're actually related. For one thing, the multicam bug is fixed in the updated released today, whereas the subclip-from-mergedclip bug is not.

                                  • 15. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                    cscooper2013 Level 2

                                    That seems to be my experience, yes.  Only soft subclips made from clips where I've previously merged audio and video.  And, yes, my audio is typically several hours long, while my video files may only be several minutes long.  I don't ever make merged clips where audio starts first.  My merged clips are trimmed to audio starting with video (but, yes, from files where the audio is much longer than the video).  My final subclip may only be several seconds long.

                                    • 16. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                      cscooper2013 Level 2

                                      OK, I've come across another related situation.

                                       

                                      I have a SOFT SUBCLIP created from a regular (non-merged) clip.  I double-click to bring it into the source monitor.  If I fail to set an in point (so that my inferred in point is the beginning of the subclip), but I set an out point, then drag the clip from Source to Sequence, the entire clip upon which the subclip is based will be placed on my timeline.

                                       

                                      If, however, I set an in point, this won't happen. 

                                       

                                      So if there's a workaround (simply setting an in point), what's the big deal?  Well, it's not a BIG deal.  But my (bad?) habit is to set my in point correctly when I create the subclip.  Then when it's time to add it to the timeline, I listen for bits of that subclip.  On the first bit of that clip, I don't set an in point, just an out point (since the in point is usually inferred and this has always worked out for me).

                                       

                                      At any rate, I thought this might add something to the discussion at hand—especially since this is happening on soft clips made from regular clips (not merged).

                                      • 17. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                        patshen@mac.com Level 1

                                        I am also expierenceing this problem with subclips.  When can we expect a fix?

                                        • 18. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                          I've not heard mention of it for the October release, so...

                                          • 19. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                            daxmacrog Level 1

                                            This is still a problem in 7.1. Unfortunately, the subclips I created (from merged clips) maintained the proper in/out points initially. I specifically tested them because I've had this problem before. I say “unfortunately” because I went ahead and used subclips to break down a long series of interviews, since subclips seemed to be holding. Now I've discovered that none of the subclips have retained any of the edit points I set. The entire clip plays (or most of it anyway, with seemingly random variations). It should be noted that some of the tracks did contain audio that started before the picture.

                                             

                                            That's a day I would like to have back.

                                            • 20. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                              SilasTibbs Level 1

                                              I'm having the same issue with my merged clips. Subclips are not being made, i'm essentially just creating multiples of the original merged clip.

                                              • 21. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                Timur_C Level 1

                                                I am also struggling with this problem. Now I am prerendering the clips. Are there any news when it is going to be fixed or over workarounds?

                                                • 22. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                  I caught a rumor of a December update, but no data on what will be included.  (Or even if it's for PP.  It may be an AE update only.)

                                                  • 23. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                    Mark Mapes Adobe Employee

                                                    The issue detailed so nicely in Post #7 is fixed in the CC7.2 update. Thanks again to thepossibility for the great report.

                                                    • 24. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                      thepossibility Level 1

                                                      Sweet - no worries Mark.

                                                       

                                                      Always a pleasure to help when you know you'll be listened to!

                                                       

                                                      Merry Christmas!

                                                      • 25. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                        Andronico Level 1

                                                        Im having the same bug with the 7.2.1 version.

                                                        The video is working but I cannot listen to the audio in my merged clips, the audio in the timeline is color gray, like if is not detecting it.

                                                        • 26. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                          daxmacrog Level 1

                                                          And with version 8.1…subclips are still completely messed up. If I double-click on a clip in the timeline that came from a subclip, the source window displays the wrong portion of the clip with no way to move the playhead to the correct portion. And I mean no way to move it. It's stuck. You can't drag it. Hitting play causes the very beginning of the original clip to play, but the playhead still doesn't move. It's so completely buggy, it's hard to describe or even figure out what it's doing exactly. There's a weird gray bar that doesn't accurately signify anything. If I zoom the source window timeline out as far as it goes, I can see the markers for the in and out points of the subclip, but there is no way to get the playhead to them. If I make any attempts to adjust the in out points or create new ones, it goes completely wonky. The points don't correspond to anything visible.

                                                           

                                                          I’ve lost track of the number of time I thought subclips were fixed only to lose hours work when I realized all the subclips I created were useless. I realize that I should just give up on using them, but if they worked, they sure would be useful.

                                                           

                                                          Arghh. What I don't understand is that it's no even close to working properly. It's not some minor flaw that could go un-noticed. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a Mac-only bug, since there are an awful lot of those.

                                                          • 27. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                            onon111 Level 1

                                                            I'm having the same problem: subclips from merged clips cannot be edited correctly. Also, my "Audio" synch option stopped working after we installed the new ppro 2014 version (along with many other weird bugs). We had to go back to the 7.2.2 version, and after finding out that we can't work with markers (because they can't save notes on merged clips), we logged everything with subclips and now these don't work either. Extremely annoying. I'm wondering: Is it such an unusual workflow to merge audio and video before editing? And is there still no workaround?

                                                            • 28. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                              Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                              Hi Dax,

                                                              I tested out the Subclips feature in 8.1 and had some issues with a project I updated. I created a brand new project and markers are behaving as expected. Are you testing with a new project?

                                                               

                                                              Thanks,

                                                              Kevin

                                                              • 29. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                                Hi onon111,

                                                                Is this a project you updated or is this a brand new project you're having problems with?

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks,

                                                                Kevin

                                                                • 30. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                  daxmacrog Level 1

                                                                  Thanks, Kevin, for the reply. This is a new project, created after the latest update.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                    onon111 Level 1

                                                                    hey kevin, thanks for the reply as well. the project was never used on ppro2014, if that's what you mean by updated.

                                                                     

                                                                    after we updated to ppro2014 and all the bugs appeared, we uninstalled everything, cleaned with adobe cleaner and went back to ppro7.2.2. but I tested everything (mergeing and subclipping) on a brand new project and it's the same problem there.

                                                                     

                                                                    our case was in technical support for weeks with no result, so I have no idea if this is caused by the app or our system...

                                                                    • 32. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                      JTrudeau Level 1

                                                                      I am having the same problem currently. I started a new project. I have Clips that are ProRess 422 merged with external audio. I was creating subclips of a longer piece of footage after merging it. When I double click on the subclip, it comes up as it should. However, when I drag it into the timeline, it shows up with the right duration, but the start time is just the begining of the clip, not the in point I marked.

                                                                       

                                                                      Please help! I spent hours creating subclips, only now to find out that it was for nothing.

                                                                       

                                                                      I also tried making subclips of NOT merged clips and it worked just fine.

                                                                       

                                                                      If I can't get any help on this, I am going to export the long pieces of footage w/ the merged audio to create one clip with the video and audio I want. I will then relink the footage in the project, hopefully tricking it into thinking it isn't a merged clip.

                                                                      • 33. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                        cscooper2013 Level 2

                                                                        Sorry, JLind.  Adobe doesn't think this is a problem.  I can't blame them, if they can't reproduce it.  My solution was to stop making Subclips.  Not a great solution, I know.  This bug has radically changed the way I edit video since 2013.  Subclips is simply not an option for me, when, as you correctly state, I could spend hours merging and creating subclips only to find out they don't work.  On a bright note, Audio Sync seems to be working *sometimes* now since 8.01.  So I use that to merge clips, but I just don't create subclips.

                                                                         

                                                                        For a long interview (one that I used to chop up into subs), I use extensive clip markers to mark all of my key sound bytes.  I then use my marker window in a fashion similar to using a bin of subclips.  I find what I need, mark in and out and then throw it on the timeline.  Ideal?  No.  But it's become the norm for me for the last two years.

                                                                         

                                                                        Now, if only clicking on a marker in the marker bin would set focus on that clip in the source bin...  We don't live in a perfect world.  Though it's not a super experience, the advantages of Premiere still outweigh the many bugs, so for now I stick with it. 

                                                                        • 34. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                          JTrudeau Level 1

                                                                          Wow, that is strange. I put in a call to them as well. Maybe something will change this time around.

                                                                           

                                                                          I found a work around as well. Kinda tedious but for what I was doing it worked well. I titled my subclips by question asked in the interview then made a new sequence from each one. I then copied and pasted the in/out points from my subclips to the original piece of footage (click on subclip, copy time code of in-point, click on original footage, copy timecode, then do the same for the out point) and put those clips into each sequence by itself. Now at least I know what I am looking at besides just "Interview 1." Definitely some draw backs, but again, it works for what I need it to.

                                                                          • 35. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                            brendyeah Level 1

                                                                            I've also been experiencing issues with subclips. I hadn't used them much until a large project I'm working on. I have more than 45 interviews that I've spent a long while going through and creating subclips, all of them with merged audio. When I open the subclip by itself in the Source monitor, it plays correctly. I cannot find a way to add it to the timeline without it moving to a complete new section of the original clip or the entire clip. I can't believe there's been a bug in the mix for over a year and a half with something as common as subclips and merged audio.

                                                                            • 36. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                              decker1222 Level 1

                                                                              Similiar to Brendyeah, I am having the same inconsistent behavior with merged Subclips in CC 2014 latest patches on OSX. Brand new project. I create a subclip from a Merged video, when I drag it onto the timeline it's the entire clip, not the subclip, plus it has the red time markers on the edges of the clips (something no other Subclip has).

                                                                               

                                                                              I need to get this job out the door so I can't spend time screwing with it. I'll just have to render the merged clips and re-import them as files so Subclips work properly. Seeing as this bug report was filed oh, 2 years ago, I won't hold my breath for a fix.

                                                                              • 37. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                                brendyeah Level 1

                                                                                This is absolutely not a fix, but I found a work around that was faster than exporting and re-importing. Open the merged clip in the Source Monitor and set the in and out points within that window. You should be able to overwire/insert into the timeline using the keyboard shortcuts. I found mine glitched when I set the first point; it would zoom in on the Source Monitor's timeline. Zooming back out and setting the other point had no issues.

                                                                                Again, insert or overwrite after BOTH points are set within the merged clip on the Source Monitor. Not ideal, but faster than rendering and importing.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I almost had to tell a client that a project was going to take twice as long, but the above workaround saved me from that. I'm saddened that Adobe has ignored a common problem for so long, but at least it's not completely useless.

                                                                                • 38. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                                  LostFeliz Level 1

                                                                                  I'm using CC 2015 latest version and this is STILL an issue. It's pretty pathetic. I thought they wanted this to be a professional tool? I hate getting those nostalgic feelings for FCP7. I want a modern editing system, but don't include features that don't work. Especially a feature that let's you organize hours and hours of footage and then have that organizing been worthless.

                                                                                  • 39. Re: Subclips inconsistent behavior; not always working correctly in Premiere Pro CC
                                                                                    Rubbersquare Level 1

                                                                                    Not able to make subclips from NONmerged clips that work properly. CC2015, still no fix?

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