24 Replies Latest reply on Oct 23, 2007 3:46 PM by CristinaSolana

    kuler community guidelines

    Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
      Hi everyone,

      This topic is a forum for discussing kuler community guidelines.

      The purpose of the kuler site is to provide an open, welcoming, and inspiring environment where people can explore, create, and share color themes. Speaking for the kuler team, we have been amazed at members’ creativity, passion, and generosity of spirit in sharing themes and participating on the site and kuler talk. We would like to keep that kuler spirit! So, after reviewing various kuler talk threads, here are some kuler community guidelines we’d like to formalize after discussion on the forum, and apply moving forward. Looking forward to your feedback and suggestions!

      Sami
      kuler community manager

      =

      kuler community guidelines

      In the kuler spirit:

      Play nice: Keep it friendly and assume other members are playing nice too. Constructive feedback on themes is welcomed, mean-spiritedness is not.

      Inspiration: If you are inspired by another member’s theme, it’s okay to create a variation of it. If you choose to make it public, make it different enough (colors, tags, title) out of respect for your fellow members. That way it adds to the theme universe and benefits everyone. It is good karma to give attribution: add a tag that says “inspiredby_themetitle” or a title such as “After theme title” or you can also refer to your source in the comment.

      Originality: Create your colors, and have fun coming up with a good title and helpful/interesting tags. If there are themes with the same title (e.g., spring), hopefully the colors and tags will differentiate them.

      Reporting issues: If you have a specific issue about a theme or creator, use the Report a Concern link in the comments area; you will receive a response if we have further questions. For general issues not related to a particular member, please post on kuler talk. Let’s keep the theme comments area for feedback on the theme itself.

      =

      Housekeeping Notes

      In addition these actions should help support the community guidelines:

      Theme cleanup: We will periodically clean up the duplicate themes that appear to have been created by newbies on the learning curve (all those multiple Firenzes or Cherry Cheesecakes, for example!). Rather than deleting them, they will be made private. Notification will appear on the kuler main page and kuler talk.

      User interface change: We realize the current edit functionality puts the original theme’s title and tags in automatically, which is compounding the confusion around original themes and duplicates. We are looking into fixing this; in the meantime the above guidelines should help clarify expectations around editing another person’s theme.
        • 1. Re: kuler community guidelines
          Srta._Pinta
          Understood, and I will do my part.

          I am sorry you had to waste time on this issue Sami.

          Thanks.
          • 2. Re: kuler community guidelines
            CristinaSolana Level 1
            I do not think anything needs to be done. I think it is a great site and the TOS is very clear that "you grant to users of the Service a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to use, reproduce, publicly perform and display, and distribute the User Submission." Nuf said.
            • 3. Re: kuler community guidelines
              Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
              Hello,
              As mentioned in my earlier post, we have made changes to the Edit Theme function. Now when a user edits some else's theme, the title and tag fields remain empty. That should help reduce the duplicate themes we've been seeing.
              Sami

              • 4. Re: kuler community guidelines
                Srta._Pinta Level 1
                Can we talk about stalking/harassing that continues, here?

                I logged on today to see jedis create a few themes continuing the numbering of my themes, not to mention the verbally abusive demeaning comments.

                My themes are named a certain way for my own tracking system as I mentioned in the "Dear Santa" thread. I should not have to explain myself to anyone but I want this to end. This needs to end Sami, it is going overboard.

                There is no reason why I or anyone else should be ridiculed or verbally abused in such a manner. Not to mention my numbering system is now off.

                Can you Adobe folks please take these compliants seriously and intervene appropriately. I am minding my own business here creating my themes and doing my own thing, I should not have to be continously demeaned, verbally abused and stalked for doing my job.

                Sami I understand you are busy so if you cannot help me, please direct me to who could.

                Thanks.
                • 5. Re: kuler community guidelines
                  Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
                  Hello,

                  I am looking into the concerns you have reported, and some have been addressed already. The report a concern link you have been using is more effective than calling members out in public, which just gets the whole ball rolling again.

                  I have declared a cease-fire. Play nice, folks. Let's move on and get back to colors.

                  Sami
                  • 6. Re: kuler community guidelines
                    Srta._Pinta Level 1
                    With all due respect Sami... Did you take a look at the "A question of design" thread and the post made last night?

                    You are reprimanding the wrong person here. I am trying to get away from something that keeps following me. That is why I sent that email providing info and requesting some sort of guidance in order to obtain peace.

                    Sadly, that email went ignored - so I have no choice but to post here which is the last thing I personally wanted.

                    "The report a concern link you have been using is more effective"

                    Was it necessary to air in public the steps I am taking to protect myself? You know my situation, I would have appreciated a PM or email.

                    Thanks.
                    • 7. Re: kuler community guidelines
                      Sami@Adobe Adobe Employee
                      Everyone,

                      Below are the official kuler community guidelines. They will be available on the site in the near future.

                      Again, the goal of kuler is to provide an open, welcoming, and inspiring environment where people can explore, create, and share color themes.

                      Members who violate the terms of use and/or the kuler community guidelines risk account review and termination.

                      Thank you for your help in keeping the kuler spirit.

                      Sami

                      =

                      kuler community guidelines

                      In the kuler spirit:

                      Play nice: Keep it friendly and assume other members are playing nice too. Constructive feedback on themes is welcomed, mean-spiritedness is not. We are a community of diverse people, and everyone deserves respect.

                      Inspiration: If you are inspired by another member’s theme, it’s okay to create a variation of it. If you choose to make it public, make it different enough (colors, tags, title) out of respect for your fellow members. That way it adds to the theme universe and benefits everyone. It is good karma to give attribution: add a tag that says “inspiredby_themetitle” or a title such as “After theme title” or you can also refer to your source in the comment.

                      Originality: Create your colors, and have fun coming up with a good title and helpful/interesting tags. If there are themes with the same title (e.g., spring), hopefully the colors and tags will differentiate them.

                      Reporting issues: If you have a specific issue about a theme or creator, use the Report a Concern link in the comments area; you will receive a response if we have further questions. For general issues not related to a particular member, please post on kuler talk. Let’s keep the theme comments area for feedback on the theme itself.

                      Members who violate the terms of use and/or the kuler community guidelines risk account review and termination.
                      • 8. Re: kuler community guidelines
                        CristinaSolana Level 1
                        I think an "Unpublish" button is in order Sami. If people do not want their themes "stolen" they should not press that publish button.
                        • 9. Re: kuler community guidelines
                          Boyd Wiebe Level 1
                          I've taken a few days to absorb the various comments on this thread as well as reflect on my initial feelings upon discovering this site and how helpful a tool it has become in my work-a-day life. I must say my own range of emotions around this topic has been one rollercoaster ride and that really surprised me. I'm guilty of attacking an individual who seemed to be taking "inspiration" (not to mention credit) from my themes but we actually worked it out in the comments section and both moved on with mutual respect as active kulerites. It wasn't rocket science.
                          I think we all approach creating themes with our own character in tact, whether it be competitive, creative, kind, sharing or all about business. It's all good and that's what is so great about life online. The clashes are imminent. I never once published anything online where I didn't realize the risk involved and neither should anybody who hits the publish button. I know, I know, I can hear all the speeches about artists rights and integrity and everything associated with it but what about all those who visit kuler who aren't from that particular persuasion?
                          What about the new wave of budding artists, all full of piss and vinegar, ready to take the world by storm who come here only to get shot down by some "artist" offended by an experiment on their theme? I think the community has too much to lose when we lose them. And WAIT... here comes the real heresy!
                          I don't think I've seen a theme published on kuler yet that didn't have room for improvement. I think there are no "sacred" themes that shouldn't be taken on as a challenge to all comers and it can be done within these community guidelines!
                          I mean come on people, just give them credit (or should I say fair warning) and then blast them off the front page! I happen to know that even some of them are tired of seeing their themes up there day after day.
                          Cheers and POWER TO THE NEWBS!
                          • 10. Re: kuler community guidelines
                            Srta._Pinta Level 1
                            Boyd I am glad you were able to work it out with that user, but other issues on here are much more serious.

                            The main problem we are having now as a community is that some users are butting in where it does not concern them.

                            In my opinion it is no one's business how many themes a user publishes. There's a newbie publishing many wonderful themes. Who am I (for example) to tell him to stop?

                            Are we going to punish him?
                            What if he is coming up with something great for his website?
                            What if he is builiding a portfolio of colors for a job he is aiming at?

                            What makes anyone think on here that they have control over what another user produces?
                            What makes anyone think on here that they have control over another user period?

                            As long as rules are being followed It is none of my business what anyone else does on here, just as it is no one else's business what I do.

                            If someone is bothered about the amount of themes published by a user or how a user chooses to name their themes, then that is a personal problem which needs to be taken elsewhere, like a PM for example. If someone is bothered by me I wish they would just send me a PM with their concerns instead of attacking me in public. I am a very reasonable and understanding person who accepts talking out issues very well.

                            As long as themes are not maliciously copied/stolen or messed with on a daily basis, I say do not take it personal, it is a compliment if someone copies you.

                            However, when it comes to competitions I think the rules should be stricter. With competitions we give it our all to make it to #1, no one should ever be cheated out of that. So please Sami, see if for future competitions you guys could work on theme/art submission being more private. It would avoid a lot of hassle on here I think.

                            I am all for the newbies too as mentioned on the features request thread. One of my requests was to make the most popular and highest rated on-going (when I say on-going I mean have highest rated change on a monthly basis). For someone to see their theme pop-up upon opening an Adobe site is a great motivation. Newbies need a lot of that.

                            Message to the newby kids from an old lady who has seen a lot in this world: This is a very tough competitive field as you can see on here and the issues raised lately, people will get personal and you have to be prepared to fight back if you want to keep moving forward. Do not let anyone steer you away from your dreams, not even a death threat. People are really nasty in this business so just keep moving forward and stay focused. You have to be courageous and have hard skin, if you do not, get it.
                            • 11. Re: kuler community guidelines
                              julie-vdr Level 1
                              Unfortunately this tedious discussion has spinned down to become very simple (to put it mildly). I must say, these last two entries are so phoney, that I had to read them twice, because I could not believe there were written by adults. What a confuse drivel!

                              The new turn Adobe announces, to remove title and tags from copies, will only propel the copy business instead of preventimg it.

                              Brown-nosing cannot be the road to enhancement.
                              • 12. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                julie-vdr Level 1
                                You do not learn anything by reproducing other's work as *your's* as this does not contribute anything new to Kuler. It just clutters the lists with more useless stuff. Neither is there a need to make anything "better." There are as many themes as there are colors to chose from.

                                Instead exercising some self discipline, by cleaning up the own folder from old combos that were never downloaded, would be an improvement. I would even vote for, that they disappear automatically after a certain grace period. If one believes they are *indispensible* for the world, one is free to re-publish them.

                                As I understand Kuler, this is a place were people come to find color combinations for their projects or produce such for others. It is a public place and no private playground. Aside from the pleasure to deal with color and the fun to experiment, it should remain a serious place -- a service, generously provided to the public by a serious software company.
                                • 13. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                  Boyd Wiebe Level 1
                                  I would actually encourage people to take my themes and make them better because I often wonder what I could do to improve them as I hit the publish button. If someone would please just say you could have done this or that differently with this color and then show me I would be as happy as a pig in mud! I would have learned something and could then take that improved version and present a better product to my clients. It's a win win situation.
                                  Brown Nosed Boyd :)
                                  • 14. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                    julie-vdr Level 1
                                    Boyd, wipe your nose! LOL
                                    You have a big mouth here. One can't make your themes "better." ;)
                                    • 15. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                      Boyd Wiebe Level 1
                                      Thanks Julie :)
                                      • 16. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                        Srta._Pinta Level 1
                                        All designers with clients, students, Adobe staff, etc:

                                        I think you will all agree that deleting older themes would not be effective to folks with clients, as what one client will not like another will. I am sure you have had that experience yes? (I know of a few designers who send their clients to kuler to pick their color theme.)

                                        kuler is now being shared in my college (no it is not an old folks home, it is a real college) as I am sure it will be in other design educational institutions, if it is not already. Limiting color themes does not help students, it takes away from them.

                                        It will also hurt those users who have a link to their kuler themes in their online portfolio. I was looking at a lot of online portfolios last night, there are a LOT of very talented new kids on the block. I am bringing them here as much as I can. :)

                                        Not to mention "minimizing" kuler's exposure. It is a lose-lose. (just to name a few)

                                        I am all for progress, if we begin deleting themes for no good reason - a part of the design world along with kuler will become stagnant as colors fade.
                                        • 17. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                          julie-vdr Level 1
                                          RE: "Limiting color themes does not help students:" Yes, it does. The collection should melt down to useful essentials.

                                          For graphic art and advertising: It is of no educational value to confront students with inapplicable color combinations. Students don't need a school to just combine random colors. As far as I know, they go to school to learn a profession on which they can live. They better study the combos on the Popular list. You can like them or not, but this is the stuff that sells.

                                          I may be wrong on this, but I cannot imagine that 'art artists' need Kuler. That would be really pathetic, if they did. They might re-think their occupational choice instead. :)
                                          • 18. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                            Srta._Pinta Level 1
                                            quote:

                                            The collection should melt down to useful essentials.


                                            What is a useful essential to you may not be to someone else. You cannot control how an art/graphic design/advertising student sees the world.

                                            It is like Photoshop or Illustrator for example, the instructor teaches us the software and all of its tools and filters - but they cannot teach us our vision.

                                            quote:

                                            I may be wrong on this, but I cannot imagine that 'art artists' need Kuler.


                                            You are wrong because artists/painters as well as graphic designers come here for inspiration and their portfolio. Everything in the world is art and inspiration. Art cannot be controlled.

                                            Just look at the new Spotlight... Elizabeth Pruitt is a great glass artist and she is here. Not to mention spotlighted by Adobe which you and I both know is the best company in the industry/art world.

                                            Art is about color and how you organize it. Same with the swatches here. Create colors and put it together so it flows. Some may not make sense, but that is what art is. Urban art for companies is very popular right now, the bank I have downstairs has attained that style on their posters, brochures and flyers and it looks spectacular, I congratulate the designer..

                                            You can only control yourself and how you react to situations and how you see-what you see... Your vision. Not what you are surrounded by.
                                            • 19. kuler community guidelines
                                              CristinaSolana Level 1
                                              @ Boyd's first message: I'll give that an AMEN! Otherwise we are going to start having to patent color schemes. LOL!
                                              • 20. kuler community guidelines
                                                CristinaSolana Level 1
                                                @ Julie: I agree on some of your points, but this tool can be used in many different ways. I for instance do not publish my themes at all. I do not want the votes. I just use the tool for my own personal projects and business projects. I think everyone is blowing this out of proportion. If they do not want their themes stolen, copied, altered the should just hit save instead of publish. The problem is some artists want the recognition to stroke their ego but do not want the consequences that come with publicizing your work, when the fact that they created the theme and saved it should be enough to say 'this is a good one because I like it.' I've created some color schemes on here and then once I finished I thought, 'that sucks' and just chuck it. I have also created some that I look at and say 'wow, were did that come from, that is stunning!' I am my own critic and if I give it 5 stars in my eyes that is what matters.
                                                • 21. kuler community guidelines
                                                  CristinaSolana Level 1
                                                  @ Boyd's second comment: Improvement is relative. It really depends on the persons style and preferences. There is no "improved" color scheme. There is just the one I think looks better and the one you think looks better. I could take one of your themes now and "improve" it and you might say "what the heck where you thinking that is horrid."
                                                  • 22. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                                    Boyd Wiebe Level 1
                                                    Usually I'm just having trouble with a color or two and then I often put something in the comments asking for input (rarely do I get any and I wish I did). The tool would be a lot more useful to me with more input from the community because it would provide a certain amount of security in what I'm putting out there :)
                                                    • 23. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                                      julie-vdr Level 1

                                                      It seems, the main cause for misinterpretions here is the lack of concept. When I came to Kuler, I did not understand its purpose. It appeared like a toy to me -- a pleasurable one, I should add.

                                                      I may have not understood it's purpose until today, but after reading why people come to Kuler and how they use it and after studying folders of 'successful' Kulerists, I came to believe that Kuler is a service predominantly offered to web designers. A place they go to find appliccable color combinations for their projects -- and, of course, also create and offer their's to others.

                                                      A remarkable number of web designers come from the software engineering space and other related areas and have no graphic design training. Those are the ones I had mainly in mind by creating my combos.

                                                      Reading some if the above contributions, one gets the impression this were all about stars -- hence self-portrayal. But I think what really matters here are downloads. I had a combo with 60 downloads before it got any star at all. So, stars or no stars, I consider this a 'successful' combo, speak: apparently useful for others.

                                                      I also think, much does not need to be published. One can keep it in the private folder. With today over 23,000 submissions, It became a medium nightmare to wade through zillions of copies and expressions of 'personal feelings' on the search for a combo that makes sense, resp. is useful for others. Aren't we publishing our combos for others? Why else *publish* them?

                                                      Thus, two seperate spaces -- one as a sheer playground and another one addressing professionals -- could solve most of the problems mentioned further up on this page, and would certainly be appreciated by a number of members. As it is handled now, it drives valuable contributors away.

                                                      To the most busy member: Are you aware, that you occupy by now about 4% of the entire space at Kuler with combos that nobody downloads? How about freeing your folder from old stuff? There are some really nice ones among them, worth to be kept. You can always tell by their downloads.


                                                      Julie
                                                      • 24. Re: kuler community guidelines
                                                        CristinaSolana Level 1
                                                        " I also think, much does not need to be published. One can keep it in the private folder. With today over 23,000 submissions, It became a medium nightmare to wade through zillions of copies and expressions of 'personal feelings' on the search for a combo that makes sense, resp. is useful for others. Aren't we publishing our combos for others? Why else *publish* them?"

                                                        You are so right, unfortunately the problem is that some people are not doing it for others, they are doing it to fill their "recognition void" by eagerly anticipating that if they publish 20 themes back to back, maybe they will be "Newest" for long enough to get some good voting that can stroke their ego. AND then they want to complain that their concept got stolen, blah blah blah.